I will be taking submissions for balance problems and posting them in the relevant folders with either thread or comment links so that we can gather information on what people consider things that need addressing from a game balance perspective. I feel having a thread to discuss specific issues is more helpful than what I already maintain, so here’s the chance to yell.
If there isn’t a link, assume it’s discussed somewhere in the thread.
Universal Issues
Multi-class Weapons
For discussing multi-class weapons and variations thereupon.
For discussing enemies and how they interact with the players.
Adam_Bunnell on Reddit writes: In terms of enemy balance: I did some math a few weeks ago looking back at the past 15 scoreboards I had and came to the conclusion that on average, for every 5 melee elites that spawned, there were 9 ranged elites that spawned. And in only two of those games were there fewer ranged elites. I’m so tired of dealing with gunners and only gunners. It’s not that it’s difficult, it’s that it’s not fun.
I did a fair feedback post a couple of days ago on the topic of Havoc modifiers - I guess that qualifies, since it’s barely a grudge but more so a topic of general discussion?
shameless self-plug aside
Thanks for making yet another of these threads - they are generally useful navigational tools if anything, and may encourage discussion even on matters that initially didn’t get much traction at the time of their posting.
Yeah this isn’t ‘customer complaints’ so much as ‘people’s opinions on game balance so that Fatshark can have them all accessible’. So exactly what we need.
Martyr’s purpose. There’s no reason to pick this talent. What I propose is to replace the current effect by a permanent CDR bonus that scale with the health. Lioke 100% bonus CDR scaling with health loss.
Weapons:
PG. Light shots should not cleave so well.
Boltgun: insane in auto mode and I currently use it cause it is so OP that playing something else with zealot is just an handicap - ok I exaggerate, but seriously this weapon is right in single shot mode, and totally OP in auto mode. I would reduce the ammo reserve.
Weapons that need a buff:
Tactical axe: I would increase the finesse damages a little
Stub autopistol: do something… worst weapon of the game
Shotguns: need more ammos.
AIG Graia and Agri: these 2 need something done, they are far under the MKV columnus.
Fire Team and Close & Kill both give negligible bonuses as the moment.
I think Fire Team would be really compelling if it could highlight suppressed enemies for you and allies in coherency. Not only would this be completely distinct from the other passives, it would fit in well with the other veteran skills in the same tree which reward supporting your melee-oriented teammates with ranged damage.
Close and Kill could be replaced with a passive that increases the dodge duration for you and allies in coherency.
Alternatively, a skill that allows you to see enemies through smokes would significantly improve the viability of smoke grenades, although dedicating a skill to this alone might make it an exceedingly niche pick.
Another curious, although unecessary idea would be to make veteran count as being in coherency for a few seconds when they score a ranged kill on an enemy near a teammate.
I don’t really have that many threads of my own that received any level of traction/consensus, though the two that came to mind as things that I felt should be put in here would beee:
For my general havoc thoughts and takes (mainly based around the terrible system they placed around it more than the mode itself).
Andd
as my attempt at forming a Golden Toughness discussion thread that had some pretty decent back and forth and then fizzled after the ‘all around noding’ concluded.
Beyond that, I feel there’s any number of ‘Duelling Sword (IV) Op’ threads can be referenced here, ‘Ogryn Bad’ threads on top of it (this one’s still going and came to my mind immediately)
And ‘Combat Shotguns need help’ along with under performing picks like; the Vigilant Autoguns, basically every Ogryn weapon that isn’t the Pick Axe/Shield/Heavy Stubber (Rumbler and Kickback as honerable mentions/are ok), Heavy Laspistols, Helbore Lasguns, all Axe’s that aren’t the Chain Axe, and Shock Mauls. (other weapons I’m sure in many other peoples eyes, these are just the ones after all my build crafting and use of everything in the game, came out to ‘literally be unsalvagable’ verses the rest of the roster, and don’t even have one mark that ‘saves’ them).
…I think that’s it? I mean I can absolutely go into nit pick territory and go over talents I’d change on each individual character, but I don’t entirely remember the threads I made for those and each and every one of them basically got spit roasted so I feel no need to try and re-hash it XD. I feel to that point it’s down to personal preference, but beyond ‘Ogryn’s tree needs help/to stop getting nerfed for no reason’ and ‘Marksman’s Focus misses the fantasy completely’ I feel the rest all comes down to preference, as each tiny can make good builds it’s just a matter of where people would like things and individual buffs for lack luster talents that people don’t use. (People hate smokes too, but I’ll let others link their topics on that as I have no ‘horse in the race’ there).
I think I’ll leave it there for now, given the extra thread I put down XD.
A movement speed buff as well as maybe a finesse buff would work nicely on the autopistol I think. It feels like it would fit well as a braced autogun counterpart to the laspistol.
Yeahhh that’s more a personal note, more a ‘feeling’ thing. I don’t like leaving the enemy open to attacking me, and without the aforementioned buffs enemies don’t get ‘stagger locked’ during the normal combo swing (between needing to weave in slow heavies and what not) resulting in it not feeling good to me at all without all the bells and whistles.
But many have their own tastes such as yourself and think it feels fine as is, so probably shouldn’t be part of the ‘objective’ list, I just couldn’t help but try and sneak it in there anyway xD cause I would like not having to run those two things for it to feel good to me.
For me, Relic Blade sits comfortably in ‘is worse than the Heavy Eviscerator XV in every single way’ tier, which is what keeps leaving me wanting ‘more’ out of it. With said Evis, lights stun the wave with just the 10% attack speed node and Savage Sweep, heavies drop a crusher in one good rev I have access to at any time (or two more often than not if I need to dash out of one, still better than the 3 without FotF that the Relic Blade puts up), and one has access to basically every good talent under the sun to pair with said Savage Sweep for maximum damage on top of maximum ‘head empty’. I walk into a wave with Evis on any build and it does work for me on top of chunking bosses and Ogies alike, I try to do the same with Relic Blade and enemies slap me through my combo swings, Armor targets laugh at me, and bosses knock me around so much the idea of getting a ‘good hit’ in with a powered up charge hit becomes a laughable pipe dream. Just makes me sad and leaves me wanting, and I know I’m not alone given I basically never see the Relic Blade being used. I think I’ve seen one in the past month, which is what made me bring up a possible buff given it’s stark contrast to the Psyker Greatsword that’s literally on every Psyker build ever.
But, to each their own, as this is intended to be objective I removed it from my post xD and hope maybe someday I’ll find the ‘secret sauce’ that seems to make people like it…(beyond just it’s aesthetic feel which does feel good, just ‘feels nice’ doesn’t really equal ‘good’ unfortunately xD).
Relic blade are really strong…
In my opinion, Relic blade are in the top weapons of the zealot.
Personally I use the combat axe achlys just cause I love too much the weapon animations and how you fight with it (disclaimer: don’t think that it is the same of the rashad/antax - there s nothing common between them). Well, to say the least, when I pick a relic blade X things are ten times easier…
Relic blade has a strong stagger and deals a good amount of damages.
They clearly DON’T need a buff.
for ogryn:
I believe that heavy hitter and fnp need some buffs.
heavy hitter is not even better than a zealot talent and its buffs are meaningless same for fnp though fnp used to be ridiculous before so maybe give it more meaningful mobility/toughness regen
I think heavy hitter upgrades should work based on stacks rather than only on total stacks and the final upgrade(light attack refresh) should be given by default and its final upgrade should give something else ie weakspot power also per stack.
many weapons also need work. foerend doesnt do enough damage to justify its recoil for example.
for zealot:
I think a few zealot melees have a needlessly low carapace ADM essentially if you dont have duelist up dont bother attacking like evi15/3 more controversially Ironhelm thammer, it already does less unyielding damage than its counterpart with the exact same unactivated clear it also has far weaker lights the carapace damage being lower is too much.
in general:
chain weapons having zero stagger during the sawing action, ive gotten trapped a few times because my weapon was already revved. i dont think its that great for smaller enemies to be able to still attack while LITEARLLY being cut in half.
I left a comment in another thread about enemy health in a hypothetical about what breakpoint a weapon would need to counter ranged enemies and melee enemies.
The key breakpoint a ranged weapon needs to achieve is 1200 - 1400 vs unarmored, flak, and maniac. I’m going to go out on a limb and say the underpowered guns that feel really, really bad are either slow firing guns that cannot reach this breakpoint or faster firing guns that can’t hit the equivalent dps making them unviable against specials, shotgunners, and elite gunners.
Meanwhile every single meta pick broken OP toothpick and a few other weapons are hitting the 2000 - 4800 breakpoint/DPS needed to cancel melee elites.
I know that’s not the full story and you all rightfully despise spreadsheet balancing, but I think that’s a big pain point for weapons, currently.
So the idea is that we post our thoughts on balance in this thread? I’ve got a few things I have grievances with that I could organize into thoughts later on (Psyker staffs, every skill tree in the game either limiting you for no reason or having broken things that need to be removed, Psyker having broken skill tree nodes that need to be removed, broken spawns, Psyker macro, Havoc is gimmicky as hell, Psyker peril is not a mechanic, seriously dude I dread seeing a single Psyker player join a regular Auric pub this torture needs to stop)
Bolter is definitely OP on zealot, however reducing the ammo would make it basically useless on veteran (already not a great pick in havoc). Zealot and veteran need different marks of bolter that match them better. Currently any nerf of the bolter would make it useless on veteran and any buff to bolter would make it even more dominant on zealot.
Rough concept:
Spearhead stays on veteran and stays the same but increase ammo capacity to 20/120 (the current 15/100 is dumb as it doesn’t actually divide evenly, you have 6.66 mags)
New bolter: “Redeemer” ammo is 10/50 and fires redemption frag rounds that detonate on impact or after going about 30ft/10m. The bolt itself would deal slightly lower damage and have slightly worse armor pen then the spearhead and the frag blast could essentially just be a half damage combat shotgun blast with a much wider spread. Could also increase the draw speed a bit.
Veteran keeps his heavy DMR but gets a ammo buff making it more of a option in havoc and zealot gets more of a auto shotgun with a limited range plus more limited ammo.
