I remember hearing something about a new career coming and was just wondering if there had been any more official info floating around that I had missed.
I don’t think Fatshark has revealed any more info other than the original “It’s coming”, no.
I do think the original info was “There’s a new career coming before the end of the year”. We’re still pretty far from the end of the year.
During a normal year I think we could have assumed more info / actual release would have been at a gaming convention.
For example E3 would have been in a week or so, and Gamescom in August.
If we assume a bit more, it seems reasonable that either new careers (I’ve always assumed one per hero, but you guys always seem to use singular?) or Versus to either have a big info drop or actual release at one of those fairs. With at least some info at E3 if nothing is ready for release, just so Vermintide isn’t forgotten.
I.e. I assume something was planned for the next weeks (i.e. E3) but I have no idea what will happen now during COVID-tide.
In addition to above, I just noticed “The event will be playable on PC between May 28- June 11” for the Khorne event thingy. Seems like an event which was planned for E3, so let’s hope
We use singular because only a single new career was announced for the “before the end of the year” quote. And knowing as Fatshark are kinda slow compared to some others “live” games (not negative, just kinda a fact, as they have every right to not rush too much, as it could cause others issues cf. WoM Release state), it seems VERY unlikely to see 5 new careers coming out at the same time.
Which is why I supported the add of a new character instead as it is “only” 3 careers to design, and maybe a bit more weapons (like a gold apprentice for example).
At least one career.
Yeah, but that kinda means “one” and “maybe more !” if all goes well.
I would like the latter, like you, but I’m not getting my hopes up. If they can deliver, it will be great, if they can’t, I’ll be still okay.
You have to think about it in a more practical, more gamedesign/gameplay sense. It would be waaaay more complicated, not to say expensive, to add one new hero than 1 career for each existing one.
If you want to tie in a new character, it would need to be implemented retroactively, so every event, every dialogue, every bit of lore flavour would need to be re-examined and the new character would need to fit in as well as make sense, and many voicelines would need to be re-recorded. They’d have to create at least a couple of new weapons for that character alone (which might benefit other heroes/specific careers as they might gain access to them too).
The variety of possible new heroes is huge, yes, but not everyone will be satisfied if they either chose a skink, another wizard, a bretonnian, possibly a skink, an high elf, a vampire, did i mention skink would be a great addition?
Now, how complex would be a new career for each hero?
No additional voicelines would really need to be added (except the ult sounds of course, but that’s a given. I wonder if they would add those career voicelines Blightreaper has retroactively, but that would most likely be only 2 per career, i think).
I really am not sure on the point of new weapons for those careers. Will there be one per career? Will they be then also career exclusive or will maybe another weapon like handgun, crossbow, 2h sword etc. be created that multiple heroes can equip?
At least not more work than the new hero.
Variety of new careers is pretty limited, so there will not be that much of dissatisfaction.
Victor can only really be a sigmar priest (his ex-colleague Kraussman went exactly that way).
Aqshy’s range of spells is limited and known, you can pick one and make an ult out of it, there are good options with some already picked as either ults, talents or staffs.
Bardin has not a lot of options left that would stand out, i can’t really think of one that wouldn’t need a rework of his exisisting careers.
Kerillian is most likely a wood elf again, as the other careers were only created by outside influence (dreams, mostly). I’d say Wardancer is pretty likely, it’s a career direction she not yet has (pure frontline melee, akin to slayer) and another elven god to represent. Her getting a mage career is unlikely, would need additional weapons only for that career. Another possibility would be Sister of the Thorn, with one new weapon, magical throwing spear. Yet that career would again be tied to Isha like HM.
Kruber is very hard. His careers already cover a lot. He could go full Taal like @LordRhinark created.
But, what i was about regarding gameplay wise, is how it will be when a new hero get’s implemented. You would need to level him up again, great, something all veterans love to do, getting from 30 to 35 was already something a lot complained about. But, in the end, nothing i wouldn’t do to play him. Now though comes the fun part. Everyone would want to play him, everyone at least wants to level him up. Quickplay would be dead for a couple of weeks (maybe longer), you would find no lobbies without picking the Ü5 (now 6? poor Kruber got it wrong from the get-go).
This together with the rerecorded voicelines is a huge no-no.
This is why i also hope they just do the rework of crafting, deeds, the small amount of talents that need fixing/rework and maybe more maps before the release of all 5 careers together, or you’d else have the same problem.
More, yes. Way more, no.
Look at it this way, and let’s assume that there will be a total of 5 new careers so one for each of the existing character.
Assets wise :
- Careers = 5 new models, Character = 3 new models. => Less work for Character
- Weapons, if we assume only one new weapon per career = 5 new models and animations, Characters = 8 new models and animations. => Less work for Careers (even if we can assume we can have some rather existing weapons already that are shared among numerous characters)
- Hats & Armors Skins/Recolor = 3 careers of cosmetics instead of 5 careers of cosmetics. => Less work for Character.
- Weapons Skins = Less work for Careers.
Balance wise :
- Talents = 3 careers instead of 5 => Less work for Character.
- Weapons = As the new character won’t have existing weapons, it will be far less work to balance its old weapons with him (as he doesn’t have any to begin with), but it will obviously be more work to balance more weapons than 1 even with shared profiles (some weapons do have shared stats in the main game) so it’s kinda a draw there. => DRAW.
Game design wise :
- Design Space = We can open a bit more design space with a new character rather than a new career (which will use older weapons, and existing systems, like sienna’s heating mechanic). => More design space if new character.
Voicelines & lore :
There, I agree, way more voices and lines to make for a new character, by far.
This is probably the huge difference.
Not to say it’s not doable (as they produces like 120 lines for paintings alone which was a rather minor addition in tems of interest, new lines for A quiet drink, and new lines for Drachenfels DLC, or Catrinn, someone we don’t even see).
Technical side :
- Don’t have enough info. UI will still be needed even for a new career, so I don’t know if adding a character would be more work or not compared to adding a new career. => Not enough info.
Player wise :
- One more character, means less “limits” when it comes to selecting a specific character when you come as a 4th player and you have 2 characters that you don’t like to play (like Kruber and Sienna for example).
- No need to level up new careers as you pointed out.
- Possibly a third female character. Not very important, but could be great for players who feels better playing female characters as it would balance the team.
Fatshark choice :
- They chose new careers over new character. That was said. So we’ll see down the line.
On your suggestions :
If I have nothing against your new careers, which are pretty logic. The new character was discussed a lot, and a skink or a vampire would seriously not fit with U5, even if it would be fun (I really would have chosen skink if it could be fitted). Bretonnian would be rather limited, especially with kruber filling the same role. So it let us with another wizard, or/and a high elf. Which is why a Golden Apprentice would be the best choice as it’s really different than others wizards out there in terms of gameplay possibilities, and in terms of career possibilities (cover a wide array including alchemist).
A Horned Hunter would be seriously awesome for Kruber.
In regards to another mage however I feel that we would need a figure who can be expanded according to the lore, give interesting banter and also be a bit different from what we’ve already got. So as I see it, that would mean we would need a mage who primarily plays differently from Sienna.
So how do you envison a Metal Mage to be played?
Quoting myself from 2 others topics on the matter :
In the Empire of Man, the Golden Order (or just the Gold Order) is comprised of those Magisters who study and embrace the Yellow Wind of Magic, Chamon. The Gold Wizards are also commonly referred to as “Alchemists.” Chamon is attracted to metals in both ore and refined forms. The heavier the element or metal, in its natural state or otherwise, the more Chamon is drawn to it.
In terms of Vermintide, it would be unique BUT with many careers (and weapons) possibilities.
This new mage doesn’t PLAY like any another Mage. So it’s not a reskinned Sienna, it would be far more control.
Some possibilities of metal magic and alchemy are :
- summoning weapons
- turning ennemies into various metal during seconds
- reinforcing allies weapons or armor
- using various potions
- rustying armored enemies (making them vulnerable, or slower)
It also makes sense lore wise. And there’s event already some dialogue about thoses mages (and especially betting with them :p).
Cosmetics wise, there’s also a freakin’ lot of possibilities of unique masks here.
I don’t think that’s how that works, they already got the skeletons, animation sets, character visuals and details for the heroes (and they re-use them on the careers a lot), they don’t have to start form zero like a new hero. I bet they already have some ideas and work done for additional careers during the V2 development when they chose which ones to use, my arguement is a bit based on that, too.
They only (not to say that’s no work, just less than a new hero) have to create the textures. When you look at the 3 careers of each hero all their poses are the same, you really only have to equip a new skin.
But i really don’t know if i’m right, if creating 5 iterations of existing models is less work than creating a completely new model with 3 iterations, i’m no gamedesigner or 3D model artist.
Sure, we saw how that worked with Vampire Coast for TW:W2 (CA had almost complete freedom with the units from GW, and the models look pretty great and unique, and the artists said they had a lot of fun creating) but i doubt it is easier or faster to create smth from sratch than having something you can base it on (and even more so when you don’t have to put the same amount of work, like i mentioned above), it might help with enthusiasm though.
Only one palyer can play that new one, that was my whole point about only really having 1 new career for the whole group, you can’t play all three in a team while you can do that with ‘only’ new careers for the existing heroes. It may create more diversity in a theoretic sense, but not a practical one, only a quarter of the group would really benefit from having a new hero.
In a universe that is so not centered around being diverse, Vermintide 2 already has a 50/50 cast of male/female (with Catrinne), i think you can’t ask for more diversity, everything more would seem forced.
In all honestly that’s a little thin and while I think that a Metal Mage (why does that sounds like the lead singer in a metal band?) could be interesting, I’m not entirley convinced from what you’ve laid out here.
To start with alchemy goes right off as potions are found on the maps and not made in the keep and there are already traits in the gear for their use.
“Summon weapons”? I don’t even know what that’s supposed to be but since we use weapons forged in the keep, this will probably be hard to implement.
“Turning enemies into metal” sounds like a version of Sienans’ fire attacks. A damage spell that kills the enemy. Neither less nor more.
Now what has interest to me are “reinforcing allies weapons or armour” and “rustying armoured enemies”. The first sounds like a passive talent and the second like an ult or passive talent. But the problem is that the first is passive and the second very situational not to mention very heavy into a support purpose as opposed to a proactive “wreck the pact-sworn with tons of violence” kind of use.’
I’d love to hear more ideas about Metal Mages but I would like to point out that we would essentially need to have variety for 3 careers and different staffs for them as to represent different spells. Along with talents and stuff.
And perhaps most importantly they need, in my opinion, to be mostly proactive and fun to kill scores of pact-sworn in both melee and at range. Buffing the squad can be a secondary or tertiary role but the primary must always be to wreck havoc with the pact-sworn.
Could also just stun/disable them for a short duration.
How do they survive being turned into metal? Magic
- Enhancing potion can be new, I don’t ask for pot to “appear magically”.
- Summoning weapons is kinda like jedis making float several weapons and using them. It’s actually a spell in warhammer rpg =p. Can be something like a tornado around you or anything else.
- Enhancing weapons could place some glow on weapons used by allies enhancing them for the duration of the ult.
- Turning enemies into metal would probably not kill them, but petrify them for a duration. (a control based ult)
- Debuffing enemy armor is also news.
Unless I’m mistaken the Fay Enchantress is elven in some editions… (I have no idea if FS is allowed to use a canon character though)
Maybe in some older books? In both Bretonnian 5th and 6th edition (the only ones there are) she is human, mentioning of her being one of the few humans to ride on a unicorn in 5th.
(made it bigger, nice)