A Wallhack mod has been released on Nexus, which should be removed

[Molonious]

@Vertraxxx

This thread is simply pointing out that the problem lies with wallhack cheats.
However, some people are making confusing arguments and dragging unrelated mods into the discussion, which only causes more confusion.
Even after the 20th, you’ve done nothing to address even a single cheat mod, that’s also your responsibility.
It’s fine if you want to discuss things internally, but how long does it take to remove mods that are clearly cheats - wallhacks, aimbots, speedhacks?
Half a year? A year? Ten years?

For Fatshark, this is surprisingly responsive. The mod isn’t that old, it had to come to Fatshark’s attention through layers of management. Once there, looking at the existing Mod policy and rules, it’s unclear where this explicitly and directly violates any of those rules (however one feels about that may be a different matter). I could be mistaken, but I don’t recall any actual aimbots or speedhack mods available. Meanwhile, Fatshark’s interpretation of directly affecting/griefing other players historically focused on stuff that directly automates play or bypasses content, as opposed to just making players more aware of things (e.g. they’ve appeared to be cool with mini-game mods showing you the pattern, but not with something that plays the mini-game for you or that removes the need to complete the minigame), so where they stood on that (at least for this mod) probably had to get hammered out within Fatshark.

It sounds like we’re looking at a back-end Dev update (as opposed to changes in the mod policy or enforcement against users) from what Julia said. Given that the impact a wallhack has in this particular game is relatively small, particularly for the average player (as has been discussed previously in the thread, even accepting it as a cheat in need of fixing, nobody seems to think it’ll let someone hang in a difficulty beyond their actual skill level, it’s not an IDDQD level of power), I suspect that devoting dev resources and release pipeline to manage a mod with a few hundred downloads isn’t the #1 highest priority even if they’re intent on doing something about it.

@DeathGuard75

It’s not hard to work it out.

Cosmetic mods are not cheats.

Anything that changes the mechanics or reveals information that the player shouldn’t know is a cheat.

Cheaters are pure scum in my books, ruined so many games in the past.

No justification for it, and anyone defending it disgusts me and your opinions are irrelevant donkey do do.

Well, the problem in this case is that nobody’s opinions on cheating except Fatshark’s are relevant in this case, not yours, not mine, only Fatshark gets a say. Fatshark are the only ones who can define “cheating” in any way that matters.

Fatshark has mod rules, and those mod rules are extremely permissive. 3 years post-release under those rules, and Fatshark has been cool with tons of mods enhancing tactical/informational awareness. Even in the case of this particular mod, they don’t appear to be banning the mod or acting against users or changing the mod policy, but instead making internal code changes to adjust specific functionality.

[Index]

@Ensrick

seeing through walls spoils the game, but in PvE

only that people who play “sweaty” use these mods as well to get an edge.

and if you legit try to push your limits either by solo carrying auric maelstrom or be a good performer on havoc 40, you compare not against people but software.

at this point it’s plain cheating, simple.

we don’t sit around a fire and sing along, sometimes dudes want to show who got bigger

which in itself is a fun way to exceed your limits.

only some dudes got fake ostrich egg implants, made from temu

and yes I do use mods, to turn down the hud to its utmost minimum, heck even forgot to turn player outlines back on hopping into Havoc 40, didn’t make much difference.

so yes one can perfectly play with a bare bone layout and clear havoc with….

what’s their excuse to see through walls?

even the mocking description reads somewhat along “for those lacking quick reflexes and the patience”….

if you lack both, you don’t deserve the presence of other people in a game is my take on it.

go suck in solo games.

[gpkgpk]

@DeathGuard75

Cheaters are pure scum in my books, ruined so many games in the past.

Hear hear.

They keep ruining games in the present and will keep doing so in the future at an increasing rate if possible because people give them a pass, see BF6 in the present.

@DeathGuard75

No justification for it, and anyone defending it disgusts me and your opinions are irrelevant donkey do do.

The worst part is you have people defending that supposedly don’t use the cheats themselves, it’s beyond perplexing. They’ve been conditioned to “not cry” (the new meta of excuses), aka don’t speak up even if it directly affects them, never mind chiming in on principle; trees for the axe.

[gpkgpk]

@Molonious

Well, the problem in this case is that nobody’s opinions on cheating except Fatshark’s are relevant in this case, not yours, not mine, only Fatshark gets a say. Fatshark are the only ones who can define “cheating” in any way that matters.

Fatshark has mod rules, and those mod rules are extremely permissive.

Wrong., trying to appeal to an authority where there isn’t one is a non-stater.

Part of Fatshark’s permissive quasi non-existent rules was that the community should self-police, this topic and others like this are exactly that, so our opinion not only matters but is requested and required.

[Harridas]

I’ve read here and in other topics that portraying what is considered to be cheating as subjective is a deliberate attempt at muddying the waters. But multiple times I’ve seen someone trying to define what they consider cheating and it’s something that’s either very subjective or a bad definition that could easily label the most commonly loved mods as cheating.

Like @DeathGuard75's post

@DeathGuard75

Anything that changes the mechanics or reveals information that the player shouldn’t know is a cheat.

And on rare occasion you’ll see someone saying that all forms of modding is cheating.

I think the best definition we can arrive at is “Doing XYZ to gain an unfair advantage” but whether or not something is fair or unfair is subjective, and Darktide being a co-op video game, I think we can and should be open to most of the modding available even if it gives someone an advantage you may or may not deem unfair. Because of how Darktide works, most egregious forms of cheating simply aren’t possible (god mode, instakills, noclip). The worst you can get are things like wallhacks or the rare game exploit that doubles your DPS like quell-cancelling which isn’t even modding related and could simply be patched by FS.

To be clear, I do think a few mods cross the line but if Fatshark’s solution isn’t a simple takedown of a mod, I’d rather continue things as is so most other users can continue to enjoy the current modding freedoms. I can’t imagine FS coming up with some miracle solution that makes wallhacks impossible that doesn’t negatively impact the rest of Darktide modding.

[rylycsgo]

To devs/ @FatsharkJulia :

My mod is just the use of an open modding framework; this is not some internal hijack or some memory modification. These systems exist within the exposed Lua scripts. I or someone from the other modding communities for this game would have made this either way; in fact, it has been made, just never publicly released. This is a fun project for me that took 2 days to make, and probably less words typed than this entire thread. If you, the devs, want some modifications, I am not that hard to reach. If this mod needs to be removed, well, it is what it is. If it stays, even better. Either way, it really is not that deep. Just a lil deep.

Darktide Modding Policy - Warhammer 40,000: Darktide / Announcements - Fatshark Forums

Examples do not include wallhacks. I am not one of the devs, so I cannot tell what is considered overboard or here to argue morality (Jesus Christ). I have my own opinions, and because it’s a game, I treat it that way. Many, including myself, do not believe that seeing enemies is of any substantial benefit to your performance, let alone in completing the endgame content. Nor do I think anyone here should start berating the devs/@FatsharkJulia to remove my mod just because they got wall banged in Counter-Strike by a lil bullet. They, the devs, see the mod, they see the code base, they are not oblivious, they will decide what they want.

@FatsharkJulia You are killing it, girl. I hope they pay you more for this

Normal People:

It’s not that deep, B-Positive, I am here for the love of the game

But for the sweats, names are hidden for obvious reasons.

I have beaten this game solo Maelstrom w/wo mods, I have beaten and reached H40 in every season, even before I made this mod. This mod will not help, as so many are losing their minds here trying to prove. It will “help” but not for the reasons you think. If you disagree, all I can add is this…

If you see this behind a wall, it will not make you win. They are coming to you, I promise you that.

Also, just a reminder that I cannot delete comments on my mods; you need to be verified for that. Google it if you must, or believe the lil crusaders here. But some comments I am glad were removed either by authors or Nexus themselves, with some glorious examples:

Also, very clever whoever did it, it’s funny. I left it open for the memes

To my favorite lil crusader, the crusade must never end

Don’t B-Negative and put the full screenshot

It’s “unbalanced” because that’s what I think it is, my mod, not yours. Cheating? Well, I am sure you will give me more paragraphs explaining why

Since I care for my mental health, I’m off I need grass to touch, or tend to some garden in Slovenia. I post on this thread WAY too often. Maybe till @FatsharkJulia responds out of sheer love of the game, the space king will return, and maybe one of my clones will respond, because some people think you all do not exist. And remember, Captains,

[Molonious]

@gpkgpk

Wrong., trying to appeal to an authority where there isn’t one is a non-stater.

Part of Fatshark’s permissive quasi non-existent rules was that the community should self-police, this topic and others like this are exactly that, so our opinion not only matters but is requested and required.

We can provide feedback, absolutely, but that goes for literally everything in this game, and Fatshark is under no obligation to do react to that. If they were, we wouldn’t have had the crafting system we did for 2 years. We can tell Fatshark what we think, but Fatshark are the only ones who can actually make and act on that decision, meaning theirs is the only directly relevant opinion, and to date they’ve been pretty cool with information-enhancement mods.

That said, lets look at the official Mod policy text.

When using mods, there are a few key points that Fatshark wants players to consider. Players found using any mods falling within any of the below categories in a way that affects other unmodded players will be subject to a prompt warning and possible ban from the game service.

• Using mods that directly affect unmodded players’ experience of the game and/or is used to grief other players.

  • Examples: Speed hacks, outright cheating in missions, etc.

• Using mods that affect the stability/performance of the game service.

• Using mods that devalue other players’ investments (time or monetary) in the game

  • Examples: Bypassing progression, penances or contracts, unlocking of premium cosmetics and currencies in the game service.

• Toxic behaviors reported as an indirect result of using mods.

Mods will have access to the same authentication level as the regular game has which means that mods are perfectly capable of managing inventories, currencies and characters as they see fit, including but not limited to:

• deleting characters

• selling or buying items

• spending premium currency

The use of mods is therefore to be done at players own risk and Fatshark will not be able to help with accounts losing gear, character, or other data as a result of using Mods.

If you are having any technical issues when using mods, please contact the mod’s creator rather than the Darktide Customer Service Team. Fatshark will not offer official support for any mods created for Darktide, and is not culpable for any issues arising with updates or mismatched versions.

Similarly if you have any feedback on any mods for Darktide, we ask that you contact the mod creators rather than our Community team.

Here is the mod policy thread in full

Darktide Modding Policy

Rejects, When using mods, there are a few key points that Fatshark wants players to consider. Players found using any mods falling within any of the below categories in a way that affects other unmodded players will be subject to a prompt warning and possible ban from the game service. Using mods that directly affect unmodded players’ experience of the game and/or is used to grief other players. Examples: Speed hacks, outright cheating in missions, etc. Using mods that affect the stability…

Nowhere in Mod policy itself, nor the Announcement thread commentary, is there anything from Fatshark on community self-policing. If such exists, it’s lost in digital space, uncoupled from the spaces people would look for such information.

[eatingsand]

To me it seems pretty obvious that the author of the mod here (rylycsgo) just keeps reinflaming the hostility. He has made exactly one non troll post in the entire topic, and even that one is chock full of petty hostility trying to antagonize people posting here.

It seems a bit harsh to keep locking down the topic because of him. it seems to be exactly what he wants, keep derailing the topic criticizing his mod into petty flaming and getting it locked so the criticism stops.

[gpkgpk]

Go over to the 2 Discords.

[gpkgpk]

@eatingsand

It seems a bit harsh to keep locking down the topic because of him. it seems to be exactly what he wants, keep derailing the topic criticizing his mod into petty flaming and getting it locked so the criticism stops.

This is what their side wants, to silence dissent by creating so much flaming bag of poops and noise, replete with every old bad faith argument and rhetorical dirty trick that these types of posts get locked down because “uncivil”.

Hiding behind JAQing after being active participants in every thread like this one and faux pearl clutching is not fooling anyone looking at these threads for more than a glance except the most naive of us. Ye olde “everything is subjective !111!” trope was played out 30 years ago.

If you keep “Just Asking Questions” to stuff that was replied to in the same topic, often just a few post up, nobody owes you a repetition since you couldn’t be bothered to scroll up, usually this is done purely in bad faith.

[gpkgpk]

@rylycsgo

My mod is just the use of an open modding framework; this is not some internal hijack or some memory modification.

Someone already made this weak argument recently even here, there is precedent dating decades as to why this is nonsense, you can google it yourself.

@rylycsgo

so I cannot tell what is considered overboard or here to argue morality

Gotcha, wink taps side of nose.

@rylycsgo

But some comments I am glad were removed either by authors or Nexus themselves

GJ removing the racist asshat rejects’ posts, I’m totes sure that none other legitimate ones were removed.

@rylycsgo

I am here for the love of the game

Clearly not, if you and the other cheaty mod authors loved the game you wouldn’t dilute it and pollute it with this type of garbage that people use in multiplayer public games.

@rylycsgo

It’s “unbalanced” because that’s what I think it is, my mod, not yours.

Nobody is buying what you’re selling.

I’m pretty sure y’all can take ethics courses IRL or online or something if you really struggle with the base concepts.

[eatingsand]

This is the worst part of his one earnest defense of his mod:

@rylycsgo

Examples do not include wallhacks.

“I know cheats arent allowed, but when they said ‘outright cheating’ they didnt list ‘wallhack’ as an example, which I acknowledge is a cheat but the examples didn’t list it so I did it anyway”

Literally admitting to abusing the spirit of the rule because the wording suited it. @FatsharkJulia Please consider this example as a reason to make Fatsharks stance more clear. As always thanks for your time

[Index]

might not solve the problem per se, but could “who are you” for example be modified to show not only platform but if the player uses mods?

that’d still include myself of course, but I’m more than willing to play with “open visor”.

just as a “gotcha” option for dudes doing very sus stuff it’d at least be an indicator mods+”this”=ignore at the scoreboard, he’s fake

@eatingsand

when they said ‘outright cheating’ they didnt list ‘wallhack’

sorry, can’t help but imagine Saul Goodman going on the defense for manslaughter instead of 1st degree murder.

“when they said “lethal force” they didn’t include waiving your gun roughly in his direction and randomly pulling the trigger.so… not guilty…pretty please?”

[MunKy]

@rylycsgo

This is probably my biggest problem with your mod. Its cheating, just let it be labelled as such.

Even the people who say “its not a problem because its PvE” are acknowledging its cheating. Everyone knows its cheating and so do you.

I have no issues with your mod being used in private lobbies where everyone is ok with it, but in public games its unreasonable to expect everyone to be ok with this.

[SymboJones]

I don’t believe anybody’s properly delved into it yet (I’ve seen it only mentioned in passing, and apologies if I’m incorrect), but surely a full on wallhack mod directly breaks the “don’t devalue other player’s investments” rule?

We have 1 ability and 2 Keystones in the game which provide some element of seeing through objects: Volley Fire/ Executioners Stance; Disrupt Destiny & Execution Order.

These 3 things have limitations baked into them: ES only highlights non-Ogryn Elites and Specials at base (Ogryns or all Shooters with an additional talent point); DD highlights one enemy at a time; EO can highlight an increasing number of Elites, Specials and Monstrosities as time passes.

Yes, these 3 options do things outside of just highlighting, but they’re still build locked and mutually exclusive with other options: Veterans need to give up VoC and Infiltrate; Psykers need to give up Warp Siphon and Empowered Psionics; Arbitrators need to give up Terminus Warrant and Forceful.

From what I can see, this specific mod in its current form takes half of what these options do, and cranks it all the way, letting you mark any number of whatever you want, walls and LoS be damned.

There is no opportunity cost to using this mod. You can take VoC on a vet and still highlight all shooters, if you so choose. Why bother waiting for Elites and Specials to be highlighted one by one with EO, when you could instead take Terminus Warrant and be able to spot everything through walls from the get go?

Abilities and keystones are mutually exclusive for a reason.

Plus, for the other classes who don’t have any way to see things through walls, this mod allows them to get those same benefits and thus stack them with their own abilities and keystones.

Surely this mod in a way, invalidates other Players’ build options and their talent point investments, and thus their time?

I don’t know… just seems kinda stinky to me…

[eatingsand]

Speaking of sus, I just checked out the mod page and while most comments seem to be deleted, the only ones up are open praise from empty profiles and things like one guy going “I don’t even own Darktide, but this mod is one of the best I’ve seen”

If this isn’t obvious sockpuppetting I don’t know what is. I think this mod dev may be doing a lot more damage control than just trying to sink this topic in this forum. A bit of a small-time machiavellian, it seems to me. I can’t quite make sense of why somebody would damage control an obvious cheat this way, but it does seem to be happening.

[gpkgpk]

Scroll up to @Gideon404 and @DornIvanotic posts here, he was already easily busted for lying, sockpuppeting and astroturfing. The word of a known liar, despite their best efforts to gaslight us, is worth nothing.

@eatingsand

I can’t quite make sense of why somebody would damage control an obvious cheat this way, but it does seem to be happening.

Usually because they cheat themselves, in both senses.

[Index]

@MunKy

just let it be labelled as such.

like “yeah, we know it’s murder and kinda illegal too maybe and while we enable said murder please call it “enhanced early unaliving for the determinationally challenged”

[CH3DD4R_G0B-L1N]

A Wallhack mod has been released on Nexus, which should be removed

I assume tongue is firmly in cheek, but people do argue this, so obligatory “not even close.” EO, ES, and DD only highlight 1 (DD), a few at a time (EO), or all of a select class of enemies (ES). For EO and DD, you don’t get to choose which, ES you can, but they all cost build points. You get this cheat that marks everything, everywhere, all the time, for free on top of whatever build you want.

I did as much, in far less detail with less eloquence. But repetition never hurts since the disingenuous among us need constant reminders with their convenient goldfish memories and refusals to read a comment above theirs. Not that they’re open to changing their mind anyway.

Just hope to catch the fence sitters.

[Index]

@SymboJones

“don’t devalue other player’s investments”

that’s the vital point. bottom line at one moment or another, you play long enough you take pride in facing the brunt of the engagement or the load of the match.

as I said time and again, cooperative gameplay doesn’t exclude competition when the goal is to reach the shuttle and invest performance in that goal.

be it kills, dmg, auspex scans, picking dudes up etc.

its natural wanting to be the best in what you love, applies to anything in life really.

and maybe the other is good himself but missing that tad little bit that gives you the edge due to training, experience, natural skills, whatever.

So going the “shitty players don’t clear havoc with it..” route, whats with the 80%ers?

they still lack the skill to clear it proper, yet instead of clenching your asscheeks getting there legit they pop wallhack, health bars etc.

fkk if I knew which mauler was on his last leg, I sure as kark wouldn’t let them blue spray psyker boys snack my killfeed, that I was conveniently chopping down there in the front.

at all sports it’s only a tiny fraction what separates 1st place and “losing gold” aka “winning” silver

and if that tiny fraction is achieved through ,better get the cause the whole dude is for resorting to this.

that is of course in sports metaphore where not everyone by default is juicing…so yeah…”natural” athletes vs “whatever” the urine check failed to detect.

anyways, getting “anything” out of such manipulation of the game is a d!ck move and absolute disrespect of the ones putting their time and guts into it

@CH3DD4R_G0B-L1N

Just hope to catch the fence sitters.

you my friend need…the punt gun

forget about Indiana Jones bad guys lining up proper, you want to clear that fence in one go

Punt Gun vs Zombie Torsos 🧟‍♂️ (The Biggest Shotgun EVER !!!)