2021 Repeater Pistolas

AYY we back on this topic? Because I’m back on this topic. I saw the other post getting necro’d and mid-essay I started to think maybe it’s time for a new thread. My new favorite Feetguns have pretty much filled the niche I’ve always wanted for Rep pistol and then some, to a huge degree. The shotgun value of Gryphon feet is delicious, just absolutely decadent. Clears hordes as well as fireball staff while not being OP versus armor and bosses with Bounty Hunter or Zealot passives, love it!

But now I can’t help but feel the community’s desire to improve just the shotgun part of the rep pistol is outdated (hence the new thread).

At no point since the Repeater Pistol’s big change in 1.6 has this weapon ever found its identity or felt satisfying to use. People wanted a powerful burst weapon and got one that, with max investment, found a niche killing Chaos Warriors, but that aspect was removed and became way more trouble than it was worth after patch 2.0 (and rightfully so IMO). The player base continued to want this weapon’s shotgun use to find worth and the mod-inspired second balance beta gave the burst the Linesman cleave modifier, which was really interesting (could kill more plaguemonks standing in a line than you would ever encounter in a real game). Still wasn’t enough.

So I’m going to say it, weapon just needs to be redone from the ground up. Throw away everything we thought we wanted from this gun. Give it new damage profiles, new values, new ammo pool, new rate of fire, new animation timings, new everything. We’re in a post Gryphonfeet world and I don’t want to go back.

We already know the damage is bad. Players have been posting essays about it being unacceptable for 3 years! For the ammo pool it has, it is needlessly weak.

Here’s a quick comparison I threw together, with ammo count on the side. Repeater Pistol gets two ammo counts because the alt-fire is a completely different attack at the cost of 8 bullets.


The primary fire is half the power of its counterparts for 10 more ammo. But it’s shotgun is just barely better than other shotguns for just 5 shots (but can’t break shields). Can’t put it more plainly. We’ve tried to make the shotgun part work, but it won’t. It’s either too powerful because of Bounty Hunter passives or completely useless. The current identity of Rep pistol as a gun that can switch between a single fire projectile or a shotgun does not work with the current game.

So dump it. Dump the shotgun theme completely. Junk it. Let the two players who liked it deal with it, the motif was nerfed pretty early in this game’s life and will never be made right.

Up the damage of projectiles to near Swift Bow charged shot standards, and make the bullet spray 8 actual bullets being shot like the Repeater Handgun does it instead of the current extremely ammo intensive version that is a single attack that costs 8 bullets. Obviously not a carbon copy of repeater handgun, it needs that flare to make it different and fun, but not like 1.0 Repeater Pistol either, because I get we shouldn’t have super synergy with Bounty Hunter that allows for 8 simultaneous critical shots that can all pen super armor and delete Chaos Warriors with ease while refunding 60 bullets with Scrounger. I know it’s obvious, but it has to be stated because I don’t want to be confused for someone wanting massive amounts of power creep to the point of having a Chaos Warrior deleter again, that is a terrible role to try and put on a weapon with a high rate of fire and a high ammo capacity. But 8 bullets fired in rapid succession needs 8 chances to crit with the appropriate damage feedback. That way if used on Bounty Hunter he has 1 guaranteed critical shot and a big ol’ 9-round burst shot if used with Prized-Bounty, but also because this is the only way it’ll ever be competitive with Brace of Pistols on WHC or Zealot. You can even ditch Linesman on Repeater Pistol this way, too, because it won’t need to cleave an entire horde if it can actually do things.

Will these changes make Repeater Pistol too good against patrols and bosses? I don’t know, maybe? With a strength potion, you’re probably able to chunk a bunch of stormvermin in 5-6 bursts, but probably not absolutely delete them like BoP used to. Against a chaos patrol, yes, a strength potion should let a single burst of 8 bullets kill a single chaos warrior, that’s fair, you only get 5-6 chances to do that. I don’t think bringing this weapon up to any degree of standards with other weapons will introduce power creep that’ll make the game less fun.

tl;dr: gun bad, make good, but not Bounty Hunter 1-hit kill CW good.

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To add, one of the themes of the Rep Pistol is quickswapping. It’s why it has such a fast switch from melee to it and then a fast left click (fastest kill time in the game vs infantry specials at close range, but only on BH for a single special).

The problem with the quickswapping is that it’s often awkward under pressure because of a sliding bug that happens when dodging with a melee weapon and switching to the Rep Pistol during the dodge, and because despite being only half of the Rep Handgun’s size and a pistol, it doesn’t get any extra dodges or dodge range. It doesn’t help that winding up the alt-fire takes time.

To be fair, a part of the alt-fire still being weak is because it only has 8 shots (Blunderbuss has 12 pellets iirc) and a low spread. They tried to give it more shots in that mod but some of us (myself included iirc) gave them bad feedback for it.

The animations are fine, just the alt-fire wind up is slow. In what ways should its rate of fire change?

I’m fine with it not being a shotgun, but what should the alt-fire’s role be otherwise? It’s almost always going to be complete overkill on most single targets, can’t reliably hit 3 elites, doesn’t break or cleave shields and doesn’t cleave armour.

Does anyone know what its ammo sustain would be on WHC with 25% crit chance? Animosity would boost it but that’s time limited and fine. I’m wondering about the outside of Animosity spam-ability.

With a str pot it could be built to kill 8 SV, but only if it managed to hit that many. Likely wouldn’t be any better vs pats than a Volley Crossbow with a str pot. Since the shots don’t cleave armour and are still stopped by shields, it would only kill several elites if they lined up just right, whereas Volley gets 15 arrows to use at different angles. Could probably just adjust the damage values anyway.

Vs bosses, that’s potentially about 600 damage per shot with a str pot. Again this could be adjusted as necessary anyway.

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From last year you suggested

Can say I would like to see these, very much.

Well, I was thinking about how you can fire this weapon faster spam clicking than you can just holding down LMB. Makes sense, but also puts physical strain on players. Someone else made a post a long time ago about repetitive strain injury that made a lot of sense (my hands do be sore after playing this game some nights). And lastly, the alt-fire’s 1 second rate of fire that takes whole years to do. This weapon just doesn’t deliver enough power to justify how long it takes for the alt-fire to shoot.

I’m willing to accept that part of my frustration with the alt-fire might come from the bad habits this gun inspires with Bounty Hunter and Prized Bounty. You really want that big D damage while under pressure, but the gun punishes you for it.

I was about to say bursty overkill, but I’ll be honest, during the making of this post I never considered Volley Bow, just checked it and saw that it’s damage is roughly 24 (inf) and 12.5 (armor). That’s got me scratchin’ my chin cuz if both weapons had the same damage, Volley would have better ammo sustain on BH (and meme Zealots) while both doing mostly the same thing. I wouldn’t mind, but that’s probably not how things would work. :thinking:

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we messed with giving it BoP level damage on the left click at one point iirc, kinda knowing it’d be way too much lol

Once we started looking into how to make the left click both good but also not just a copy of repeater handgun we ran into some trouble. We didn’t give up on the idea but the mod also wasn’t finished by the time the BBB came around so anything we were working on still just got kinda shelved (RIP Pickaxe)

Also goes without saying the repeater’s shotgun concept is kinda dead in the water now that Saltz has the Griffonfoot pistols

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What kind of trouble did you run into?

I’ve convinced myself that rep pistol’s super fast rate of fire would make rep handgun tier damage too strong with those break points. Maybe if it had the Masterwork Pistol theme of steep damage drop off and huge spread on alt-fire, making it the superior ranged weapon for mixed hordes on Saltzpyre at the cost of reliable sniping and fast ammo consumption?

I think the weapon needs to be less reliant on the finesse value for any actual damage and have it do better base damage. It’s headshot damage is pretty good for a weapon with moderate accuracy and no sniping ability so it’s kind of wasted on anyone that isn’t BH. The alt fire (that you suggested) could have higher crit chance to allow for higher potential ammo sustain but with it’s high, slightly uncontrollable fire rate, it would be harder to land every shot.

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eh maybe? I can’t imagine a rapid falloff being something people would care to deal with

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I’m just gonna link what I posted in the necro’d RP thread.

I don’t think it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Just lean harder on the low sustain, burst damage identity it already has.

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