My take is:
Bleedthrough damage is a design, not a bug.
Ranged classes have lots of toughness to be able to trade in gunfights. And low hp to be punished by chip damage in melee.
Melee class have low toughness because they don’t want to be fighting at range (or they take hp “bleed” damage because range overcomes toughness). They have high hp to be able to soak in chip damage.
I understand the design and it makes sense, however, it feels like it shoehorns playstyles, and creates some frustrating scenarios when you get surrounded by something your class isn’t designed to. And because it is Darktide, that will happen… a lot.
The answer here, IMO, is to make most toughness return flat, then increase the amount that classes who are meant to be in melee get. This also has the effect of making health curios more valuable in melee-focusing setups.
This way you could buff Zealot and Ogryn toughness general when they are up close and personal, without being worried they will build for toughness to abuse how exponentially more durable it makes them both in melee and ranged.
I think they need to extremely strengthen the suppression mechanic such that ranged groups of enemies will run for cover and stay down for up to 5 seconds in a much bigger cone around a burst of stubber fire. This, along with fixing the fact that ‘collateral’ using braced auto guns currently only penetrate basic cultists and no other unarmored or infested enemy types or weak points would give the game same much needed ranged weapon variety and alleviate a lot of the problems you bring up.
@420vapesmoker Some of the toxicity in this thread tells me that’s honestly pretty reasonable. If folks were more reasonable, I imagine devs would feel more welcome. You’re literally pinging Hedge to insult him.
Ok well in this case some of the dev-directed toxicity is absolutely deserved. Why the hell are they nerfing core mechanics like dodge and toughness or character abilities like Zealots F when other core mechanics are nonfunctional? As far as I’m concerned after seeing this, the game is in an incomplete state and any feedback they’re basing these changes on is worthless until that changes. It should be all hands on deck fixing these problems seeing as launch is in a matter of days, not pushing forward changes nobody asked for with no testing phase or collection of community response.
@bearshark713 Because the team that works on balance is not the team that works on core functionality is not the team that works on performance.
They’re different teams. Like having someone in marketing, another in front end, and another in back end. They all do their job and leave the other jobs to people more suited to them.
And even were that not the case, the toxicity would not be deserved. Because that leads to devs not bothering reading the forums. After all, why would they? They have a job to do, and that’s make a video game. They don’t get paid to see people online talk about how awful they are, and that’s just gonna make Joe Joeson go “Aight, screw you too, I’m happy to just earn my daily paycheck and ignore this junk”.
Maybe the team that fixes nonfunctional mechanics and the team that balances functional ones are different, but presumably the latter is aware that some core mechanics are currently not working and therefore large changes to functional ones seem extremely ill timed. If the natural consequences of this bad timing is enough to put a developer off from caring about how the community reacts to their work, then a different developer should be working on the game.
Yes, but the team making balance adjustments is not the same team. So if a balance adjustment is made, it is completely distinct from the one working with the functionality.
No, it’s not good. But saying they’re choosing to nerf instead of fixing a bug is like being upset with a Nurse for giving you an IV, but not performing the surgery since the doctors are busy.
As for caring, my nurse analogy works here. If you treat healthcare staff poorly, they actually are under no obligation to do anything for you but the bare minimum of healthcare required. This is what a dev will do when you treat them poorly.
They are deliberately destroying their own game because people are telling them the entire class is broken. Half the feats don’t work. Some feats have the math calculated wrong so the feat is bad. in the CBT we had 3 different choices depending on playstyle, now we have 3 bad/1 that works/or 1 forced to take. 3 days until the 30th and 2/4 classes are leagues over the other 2 changing everything the community does not want changed, all for some neckbeards ego in the office
@bearshark713 This is fair, but the point of the analogy is that if you treat someone like dirt, don’t expect them to go the extra mile for you, because it is not technically their job to do so. If you’re not happy with the state the game will be in, yeah, refund it. But saying “Being extremely toxic towards devs is ok because 2 different teams are doing their job” is hardly a good look.