Zealot Feels Quite Anaemic Compared to CBT, in Part Due to Engaging AI in Melee, and In Part Due to Career Skill Changes

I’m aware Zealot currently has a few bugs. Some talents aren’t working whatsoever, and Martyrdom is starting at 1 stack @100% HP and going down by 50 each interval (making 6 impossible, most likely, as you’d need 0 HP for that).

This isn’t about that, it’s about two key pain points:

  • Zealot’s Career Skill / Ability / feels bad for a variety of reasons we’ll get into.
  • Enemy AI seems much less willing to drop their weapons and engage in melee.

Let’s take it in order:

ZEALOT’S CAREER SKILL

Zealot is all about being able to close that gap and force squads of ranged enemy into melee. It’s about being a frontline support and disruptor, as well as primarily melee damage dealer. It’s about getting up close and personal. The career skill in the CBT accomplished this fantastically, and felt good to use. It was a moderate range dash on a low CD that refreshed your toughness and let you keep the aggression going when needed, such as when retreat would let enemy squads set up firing lines.

Since the CBT, the following is different:

  • Only 50% toughness is regenerated

This is fine by itself, but is problematic when considering everything else in this post.

  • The cooldown has been increased

It feels like even with more economic use of the ability, I have it up quite rarely. I understand that there are traits at max level that will alleviate this, but that means that the only traits I will chose are ones that alleviate this issue.
In the CBT, functionally everyone went with Purge the Wicked (2 charges) at max rank because of the utility.

Increasing the CD, and improving Invocation of Death (from crits reduce CD by 1s to 1.5s), in theory makes at least IoD more appealing, but we’ll get into why that does work in the next point. Furthermore, the significant reduction in reliable crit chance from perks and, in some cases, flat out removal of crit chance perks makes this infinitely less desirable.

  • The charge distance has been significantly reduced,

So getting into melee feels like a chore in many cases. In the CBT I could use a combination of flanking routes, cover, and my career skill to get into melee range of enemy ranged units who were suppressing my allies. Now, I am only able to use the ability to save a second or two on enemies who are already quite close to me.

In addition, because it’s harder to get into melee with the ability, a poor use would leave IoD with the same issue it had in the CBT but worse: It’s very unreliable.

In addition, the charge itself feels slower, but that might be for other factors.

  • [NOT NEW] You get staggered out of your charge even with full toughness.

It’s extremely frustrating to hit the charge, and to be knocked out by a single shot of a lasgun.

I’m not sure if this is a bug, but I can only assume so. Either way, it compounds all of the previous issues and leads to a frustrating experience.

ENEMY AI RESISTING MELEE ENGAGEMENT

Something I noticed back in the CBT is how good it felt to get into melee. You finally break through that firing line and suddenly it all stops. Enemies drop their guins, and you’re rewarded with a blob of melee enemies. You trade one threat for another, more manageable one. It was high risk, high reward.

In the current test, however, enemy AI feels like it avoids engaging in melee significantly. I can hug an enemy and still have them shoot a volley or even two before switching to melee. On top of that, the range at which enemies become engage in melee seems extremely small. So much so that I have been in the middle of fairly small rooms (about 3-3.5 reaches of melee across) and had half the enemies stand at the walls shooting at me. Making rounding them up extremely difficult, as moving to gather them means some enemies quickly decide to leave melee and go back to ranged.

While the above may be ‘believable’ or some such, it makes for extremely unsatisfying gameplay when I’m in the middle of the tight corridor and enemies on either side just shoot me instead of entering melee, and means I often end up hiding in a corner with my gun out and without anyone properly able to shoot at the gun squad due to suppression. Sure, it’s doable and we win, but it’s not fun or satisfying like it was in the CBT, where many of the mechanics really felt like that harmonized extremely well

THE TAKEAWAY

To reiterate my last point: “It’s not fun or satisfying like it was in the CBT, where many of the mechanics really felt like that harmonized extremely well”

The game is still a lot of fun, but having seen how well the mechanics can lock in together and how smoothly and well the game can play, performance aside, it feels like a step back.

The classes (In this case, specifically Zealot. But this experience seems mirrored by others) in CBT felt like a lot was learned from the years of development on VT2. It felt like the classes we have now, over the classes at release.

The classes in the current open pre-release beta feel like the opposite of that. They feel a lot more like VT2 on release - Clunky and as though I’m fighting through the class to enjoy it in many cases, as opposed to the class helping me to enjoy the game.

To end off: There’s been a lot of good changes since the CBT. The dodge changes are fantastic, for example. Weapons overall feel in a more balanced spot, etc. People rarely say what they like, and there is a lot to like! But the changes to Zealot, and how the AI handles being engaged in melee, are not among those.

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I agree with this post.

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Very well written, and pretty much spot on. While Zealot didn’t get beat down as hard as Psyker in the rebalancing, they still just feel notably worse now, to the point where it takes away a lot of the fun that was had with Zealot in the CBT

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I posted similar feedback but you caught some extra “changes” here. You check mine here: Zealot is broken/bugged mess. Half of his features are straight up not working correctly or not working at all - #8 by Benny89

As there is also Matryrdom stacks being bugged and not working correctly at all.

Zealot just feels bad. It’s just bad to play as him, bad feedback, lackluster “front line” playstyle.

Fastshark, revert those changes you made since Closed Beta. Nobody asked for them. Class feels so much worse right now. Like every joy I had playing as him in CB is gone. This is straight downgrade and considering you only have 4 classes at launch: butchering them will only result in pre-order players to not play on launch.

Honestly I refuse to play that broken mess that Psyker and Zealot is right now. You took all the fun from CB and threw it out of window.

Very generous to say that word and whoerver at Fatshark did this “reblancing” should really rethink if he is suitable for that role.

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I agree with all that op said! I feel like a lot of the nerfs if intentional are fine IF they fix the ai behavior to stand 2m away and shoot bursts at us. I’ve taken to bringing a lasgun with me because it’s legitimately more safe to stand away and pick off the firing line (being a budget veteran is so not it) than it is getting into melee due to the ai behavior

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Even ignoring the AI, the nerfs are still overkill and in some cases a bit nonsensical. They nerfed the toughness on kill, for example, even though it was always a bad choice. The combination of both makes it really unpleasant to play, though.

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I agree. Maining Zealot and I felt something is off.

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yeah overkill with this ai for sure either revert the nerfs and keep the ai or fix the ai imo

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Ideally they do both, and tweak from there. The AI is a core part of the game, and part of what makes DT so fun and engaging. It adds a really engaging layer of tactics that the game feels so cumbersome without.

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After playing Zealot to level 20 I am really really dissapointed with how Fatshark messed up. I still really really hope all of this are just bugs and unintended changes. However right now playing Zealot is like playing a handicapped Veteran. The whole flashy playstyle of dashing from squad of enemies to squad of enemies from Closed Beta being a dashing devil is just gone. If I want to sit on my cheeks and shoot stuff I will play Veteran or Psyker. The Gameplay loop for Zealot is just screwed right now. Try to play on Diff 4 and it shows immidietly:

Current Zealot is not fun and his good gameplay loop from Closed Beta is just gone:

Change (hopefully bug) to his Ult cooldown was idiotic. This class needs low cooldown on it if you expect low HP mechanics to work and us dashing around. Zealot in Close Beta had very good role of engaging in melee range enemies to prevent them from shooting/suppressing your team. With low cooldown you could sprint to enemies, let you toughness go dow, dash to them getting it back, engage in melee. By the time you were done with them you had your Ult up and you could dash back to help team if needed or engage another pririty target squad.

Currently not only you get 50% toughness back (hopefully bug) but also your cooldown is super long. What it does is I try to close distance (can’t shoot them cause suppression), I use dash to get my toughness back. Enemies still smack my 50% toughness back to 0 (in Closed Beta with 100% I would still be left with hood chunk of it) before I swing. I deal with them and my cooldown is so freaking long I have to sit duck instead of closing distance to next range enemies that’s it’s just pathethic. The nail to coffin is that some mastermind also reduced the distance of his Ult. In game with huge long corridors and long open spaces. I just can’t… It’s not fun. That’s not why you want to play Zealot. The whole fun gameplay loop is just gone from this class.

Now Zealot in Closed Beta had it’s issue but those issue were tied to being designed around low HP in game without THP vs like it was in Vermintide 2. However Fatshark instead totally ignored that part of our Feedback and instead they messed (hopefully it’s all bugs) the WHOLE LAST THING THAT MADE ZEALOT be playable like that in Darktide despite that low-hp design flow: his freaking toughness recharge was good enough to somehow off-set that mechanics that are not suited here like there were in V2.

How can you screw like that I don’t know. Or it’s all just bugs and we will get back good Zealot soon I hope. If not I have no hope for devs team to balance anything in future.

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Don’t forget half the traits are either NERFED to the ground or are just not working at all. Did Fat Shark even play their own build after the CBT? I highly doubt it

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I literally came here to make this post and I see you already covered everything I was planning on talking about.

Zealot in Vermintide 2 worked because of the systems at play, in this game it just does not work. The lack of temp HP (the toughness bar is not the same, it breaks in 2 hits even on champion difficulty) and the unavoidable Chip damage from melee strikes (you take health damage even when your toughness is at full), will get you killed from trying to play it the same as how you would in Vermintide 2.

Can you imagine in Vermintide 2 trying to play zealot, where your entire full health bar of temp gets removed in 2 strikes and even when your temp HP was at max each hit would lower your green health? Thats how zealot plays in darktide

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My vet takes less damage per melee attack than my Zealot with and without toughness traits. ???

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God YES. That is precisely why I’ve been using the Catachan combat knife as soon as I unlocked it. I’ve been roleplaying a serial killer for like 10 levels because of its mobility and the one-shot with a heavy to guardsmen’s head.

My most successful game plan is literally to thin out the ranged guys then run in like a madman with my knife raised high to aggro them all as fast as possible.

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Psyker got some hotfixes so I hope they will fix Zealot too soon.

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I rarely use the ult. If you use it on ranged enemy squad you risk just getting knocked out of it haflway through. And even if you manage to glide to melee distance, two soldiers will drop the guns and engage in melee, while the rest of unit stands aside and mag dumps your ass…

Big agree, I didn’t play a huge amount of Zealot in the CBT but it felt good to charge into gunfire to lock enemies into melee. Now the charge feels awkward to use since you can’t charge as far, it doesn’t regen enough toughness so you end up taking a ton of damage to try and disrupt ranged attacks.

In the few times I manage to close the distance and engage in melee, a few enemies will stop firing, but most of them just backpedal and carry on shooting. If I wanted to hang back and take potshots from cover I would’ve chosen Veteran.

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This so much. Fatshark doesn’t know what they want their game to be. Just make all classes Veteran and let it be classic FPS shooter if you want Fatshark for people to just slug through your maps behind cover and shoot all the time. Why even make Zealot or Ogryn at all.

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Hard agree here, especially on some of the feedback regarding forcing ranged into Melee. A side effect of this is that if you can’t close the distance and actually pull the ranged units into melee, you have to play the game like a cover shooter. It’s not how I want to play, and the pacing of the game goes to a crawl when you have a team that is incentivized to stand behind some shoulder height walls and fish for headshots.

I want to add on top of everything that is horrible with Zealot right now: the fact that enemies range attack can halt/stop your ult charge is just another nail to coffin.

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