Zealot Feels Quite Anaemic Compared to CBT, in Part Due to Engaging AI in Melee, and In Part Due to Career Skill Changes

I’m done playing Zealot. I can’t do it anymore.

I’ve died so many times to ranged stunlock, chip damage through toughness and not being able to effectively deal with ranged enemies because they can just shoot you out of the tool you’re meant to use to close distance.

Died to a blob of ranged enemies because even though I was about a foot away from them that wasn’t close enough for them to pull their melee out and there was no cover, toughness broken almost instantly and then gunned down. Can’t move, can’t change weapons and can’t charge, they just shoot you out of that too.

Shot down to 1hp and tried getting melee kills to refill toughness / hp because passive toughness regen talent doesn’t work, died to chip damage.

Try to charge enemies in cover that are suppressing us, shot by a reaper out of my charge, promptly stunlocked and killed. Team can’t revive me because I’m out of cover and there’s a sniper.

This class needs some serious buffs and or reworking, it is extremely weak currently and feels like a detriment to your team.

2 Likes

Mained zealot to level 27. Have to agree with many parts of this post. I’m going to go down the list of why Zealot feels bad to play. Most of this is talents, since the base kit all I can say is “wow, you gave me selfish abilities in a co-op game, where as other classes have ones that help or do a lot more useful things.”

Many talents in comparison to the Ogryn feel outright useless. My friend keeps looking at me and says “You’re just an Ogryn but worst.” And I have to agree with them.

Toughness reduction talents going from a combined 30% (10% coherency, 20% talent) to 22% is really dumb. It barely does anything now, and considering your toughness breaks on difficulty 3+ if a stray lasgun hits you, I have no idea why this was nerfed.

I really enjoyed toughness on kill. The other perks in the tree are useless in comparison to me. 50% tougness damage reduction if I crit? Yeah, where’s my crit chance? Oh right, locked behind RNG. Restore tougness used to be 7% per second instead of 5%. It’s as useless now as it was then. Instead of 15 seconds to restore to full toughness, it is now 20 seconds. Considering just about every enemy eats through that immediately, I see no reason to pick anything but toughness on kill. And if the game works like Warframe’s shieldgating where you just juggle toughness to avoid damage, that’s already a problem.

I hate the level 10 talents with a passion. I keep switching between them because they all feel so useless. 10% crit chance on a bleeding enemy is anti-synergistic unless you have a melee with crit and bleed on it, which I haven’t seen. Cut through 3 enemies for a 5 second buff you can extend by killing more enemies, and 2 buffs I don’t know what they do. I can guess, but I shouldn’t have to guess, the game should tell me. More attack speed the more injured you are. As of right now, there is no reason to be injured on Zealot. There’s not enough benefit to threading the needle. I typically switch these up and feel none of them have an impact.

Level 15 talents are okay, but only two are readily available. Holy fervor is useless, with Martyrdom proccing every 50 HP and no reliable way to heal yourself, you can’t juggle to keep this passive active. Nor would I want to, since 20% power means nothing to me. Benediction is what I typically go with, since it’s something I don’t have to think about. You can make an argument for this or Inspiring Excoriation, but given how long the CD is of the ability, I feel like the toughness reduction will just be more applicable more often.

20 is where I thought finally this class will make sense. It didn’t. I don’t know what’s wrong with Holy Revenant or what, but it heals like nothing. I have been in the middle of a horde on difficulty 3 and healed 40 hp after constantly slashing with an Eviscerator. If I have to use a flamethrower on a horde of 50 just to get a significant amount of HP back, then this will never be useful. Thy Wrath Be Swift is if you want to be a discount Ogryn, which ranged enemies can hit you through objects so it’s still useless. Faith Restores all is the only option here since it effectively gives you 25% more hp.

25 is yet another talent tree that has only 2 options. Emperor’s Executioner would only be picked if you are going for a penance. You’re a melee focused class, you have no reason to pick this. Rising Conviction is my set it and forget it talent. However, currently due to the way Martyrdom works, you only have the second option right now anyways. 20% more damage feels like it does more than each stack of Martyr giving 5. Not only that, but I can’t tell if it does anything, since Meat Grinder doesn’t let you have stacks of Rising Conviction. For all I know the icon is coming up in combat, but not actually doing anything.

30 Another talent tree that looks like it has multiple options like before, but only has 1. I haven’t seen a weapon good enough to pick Invocation of Death. Fury of the Faithful is useless considering how long you have to wait for your ability to come up. Purge the Wicked is the only choice since you have an oh gee wilickers button to get out of a bad engagement, and bursting down priority targets. This lets you become a special/boss killing machine.

In nerfing the Zealot you have just made them even more one dimensional and unfun to play. If I didn’t like the sound design, I would have switched to Ogryn sooner.

On top of this, the whole reason I played Zealot was to get the thunder hammer. Not only do I use the eviscerator on top of it, I feel cheated and honestly like I wasted my time. If I want to kill specials, I have to learn how to do a specific playstyle of pushing before hitting because the grunts will eat my hammer attack. Why is it easier to use a chainsword than a god damn hammer? Why does this not have cleave/damage/penetration as the god damn capstone weapon? I should be batting hordes aside, not tossing them around playfully while unable to kill the target I was going after.

And the reason why most melee feels unfun to play with right now is because of the stupid stagger mechanics from ALL ranged weaponry. Vermintide 2 only had a gatling gunner pushing you back. Why the hell does every single ranged enemy in Darktide push you back? No wonder I never see any high levels in this class. I personally only like the flamer (because of horde clearing) and bolter (because of special killing) but god damn, if I go flamer/melee I feel useless half the time because you spawn 50 ranged enemies on higher difficulties and the veterans are the only ones allowed to play the game. Please give the Zealot some love, or at the very least change the ignore melee stagger to ignore ranged stagger. Up some numbers, change some feats again, just anything to make the class fun instead of “Balanced”

5 Likes

I feel better after reading more educated opinions. Being a zealot main at 30, the journey was not fun or rewarding. It was terrible, I played the CBT this is not the same class I played then. I’ve made plenty of posts echoing most of what has been discussed here. I think its time for project managers to have a sit down with the zealot dev team and force them to read all these posts. The Psyker team figured it and had hotfixes out on day 2…

Glad to hear I’m not the only one feeling there are many wrongs with the zealot.

TBH the thunder hammer feels worse to me in this then it did in the last closed beta, but I have no idea why it does.

As to the ranged, I haven’t been impressed with any of the ranged options of the Zealot other then with the Lawbringer shotgun, and that’s only because it has a lot of stagger on it. Enough to actually stagger special ogryn at a decent range away. Flamer is too slow to pull out and use against a horde imo, while all the other options just feels like they’re a discount Veteran.

To those here, I made a bug report showcasing the ranged enemy AI and how janky it acts here: Enemy AI and Melee Engagement is Buggy and Inconsistent (Comprehensive w/ Evidence)

It’d be nice to see if others are experiencing the same.

3 Likes

New Zealot buff just came out! Now the only one way to play is with a finesse weapon and quit using any rev weapons. Someone reply back to me if you can crit with a chainsword, my shop is messing with me in getting one to test it out. Supposedly they nerfed the crit procs on rev hits. It works with the charge but when you don’t have the charge you do nothing against carapace.

Feat path, use dagger if you want to keep the buff up 100%.
Faith Restored
Bloodletting
Benediction
Faith Restores All
Rising Conviction
Invocation of Death

I don’t have anything against this build, but I feel like one handed/crit based weapons should be the ones with damage focus, and the two handed slow weapons should be the tanky build.

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I think the dodge nerf hit Zealot very hard. Yesterday it was possible to dodge into melee and avoid a lot of fire while in it, but now I’m getting shot at least three times as much.

AI being a lot more prone to fire in melee is what messes Zealot up.
You charge one dude, and his 4 mates just use you for point blank target practice .

C’mon fatshark, you had solved that in VT2 with beastmen archers

Hello. I agree with the VT 2 part. I said this in a post a few days ago regarding the Veteran. VT 2 was well designed then I came in to Darktide to find that hot mess. What happened to the Devs great game creation process?

As for Zealot… Yes it has a lot of issues but certainly less than other classes. Veteran is useless in melee and doesn’t have enough ammo to shoot everything in sight. Optical Camo only works some of the time to boot. Enemies will make a “b-line” for you even if you sit right in the middle where there is no enemy spawn points for several feet

I tried this with the Railway mission with the scheduler redirect thing… Sat right in the middle ontop of the stone circle thing. Still had a group of little crap go right for me despite sitting still and not shooting

Zealot is also the better class for Bolter. Yes Veteran gets more ammo but considering the bolter deletes most elites in 1 hit, you don’t need it. Melee everything then bolter the elites. Easiest thing to do

I will agree that the upsides are not as numerous as the downsides though. The Zealot can only regenerate toughness if near friendlies or enemies… Making you an easy picking for ranged units

I will also agree that the ranged enemies are WAY too oppressive right now. The stun and knock back rate is too much. You can’t charge them. If you try, you get stun locked to a point where you can’t move and die

I think 2 additional fixes need to be considered. One for Toughness and one for the Ranged enemies

Toughness: It should be a flat regeneration amount. Talents that regenerate toughness should be a bonus to that. Example: lets take the Veteran’s 8% talent. Well you get 8 flat, then an additional 20 regeneration on top of the base because of the talent. I think this is balanced because if you do the math at 200 toughness (Veteran base) then you need a little over 7 seconds to recover all toughness. 7 seconds is still a long time given how fast paced the game is

There is also the wound mechanic, and the fact that some melee goes through full toughness to consider

I would apply this to all classes in addition to Zealot skill changes. I don’t have any ideas as to how to change the Zealot skills at this time

Ranged Enemies: I think that there should be a stagger/stun, “flinch”, and knockback resistance based on the classes. Ogryn should have the highest base as it is the strongest. Veteran and Zealot after that because they are combat classes. Veteran should have higher “flinch resistance” than Zealot because it is a gun class. My gun shouldn’t be pointed to the moon after getting hit by a ranged enemy

Psyker should have the least as it isn’t a combat class. It shouldn’t matter anyways because they will do their channel behind cover

In addition to having better base resistances, I would also suggest that if you are sprinting, you should have 50-80% damage resistance. It stands to reason that a ranged enemy would have a hard time hitting a fast moving person

Lastly, I would suggest movement speed based on class. Zealot would have the most due to it being melee oriented. Veteran after that because it does need to move away to get a good shot. Psyker after that. Ogryn last. Ogryn is carrying a lot of equipment so while it is strong it is likely weighed down

One thing I don’t understand is why the veteran has 200 toughness and zealot has 100. I feel like the hp and toughness between those two should be swapped. Make Martyrdom trigger off of how much toughness the zealot has, so there’s a good reason to keep it up. Also any skills that are based off HP should follow that trend too. Veteran and Psyker having 100 toughness while Ogryn and Zealot having 200 just makes sense considering the first two are ranged focused, the other two are melee focused. Or make it so certain weapons give toughness, etc. two handed weapons on zealot, shield on ogryn.

And if you think veteran can’t melee, with the new ranged enemy nerf i waded into a horde with a level 4 veteran on difficulty 3. I did better than my zealot in terms of how much damage I tanked because I was regenerating so fast based on cleaving. It surprised me how much toughness matters.

As a meleeing Veteran I sympathize, however CBT melee was a little too easy.

Catachan Mark IV felt amazing though, mobile, athletic, and precise, felt like a swordsman. (I use Chainsword primarily now)

AI was more prone to fire yesterday, but it was less of an issue. Something’s up with the dodges after todays update!

Martyrdom on toughness would be real fun to try out. Would make the class seem less of a copy-paste from VT.

Today they fixed the Zealot passives…But not the charge.
Feelsbadman

I agree, the range nerf on the charge from CBT really killed a lot of the fun, especially combined with the crazy long cooldown and the low toughness restored.

What about the charge are you expecting to be fixed? They fixed the description to 50% toughness gain already. Nothing else about it seems explicitly broken, just a bit wonky.

While I disagree with them, and am rather happy with the spot Zealot sits at now between the balance pass and the… Mostly fixed AI, they’re talking about how the charge can sometimes just be… Stopped by damage. Straight up just stopped.

This can happen regardless of your toughness, and seems random. If it’s not, and is intended, it should be communicated clearer as to what’s happening, imo.

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Ah yes that does seem a bit inconsistent. I think it might vary based on whether or not you’re using the specific enemy targeting feature but I’m not sure currently.

That’s a fine guess, but I feel as though I’ve been shot out of it even then. Though that may be due to the targeting of the career skill feeling a bit clunky.