What should Fatshark focus on?

A major problem I have with the game and its developers is the unwillingness (or lack of capability) of improving what the game already has. I think many people agree that various things like the crafting system, deeds, the Beastmen faction, certain weapons, career balance and so on are bad and/or need tweaking and overhauling. I think that Fatshark should focus on improving what the game already has and make a higher quality game, than bloat the game with half-finished additions. They should also make sure to keep the game focused on what it’s about - the U5 and their adventures throughout Reikland during the End Times, fighting the Skaven and their Chaos allies. Which is why I am against the idea of pushing the developers to keep adding new factions, new heroes, new careers, new weapons and so on.

We’ve all probably seen the many threads in the Steam forums and these ones, talking about the potential of adding a new enemy faction to fight, such as Greenskins or the Undead, and I just don’t think that it’s particularly worthwhile. Of course, it’s fun to discuss and talk about it, but from a realistic perspective it won’t (or shouldn’t) happen.
Sure, they could certainly do it, you can easily make up a roster for this game from each of those factions, but there are several issues with that:

  • What would be the point of adding a new enemy faction? The enemies would have to be unique, with different stats, attributes and abilities, challenging you in different ways. It would have to be made differently from something like the Skaven or Chaos, otherwise it would just be a glorified reskin.
  • If designed poorly, the faction could negatively impact the game (as seen with the Beastmen).
  • From a lore perspective, none of those potential faction additions that I mentioned would work. The Greenskins and the Undead fought against Chaos, and couldn’t be found working together with them, they would have to be separate missions with separate story arcs.

The game is called Vermintide, instead of adding new factions, Fatshark shouldn’t forget what the game is about. The 3 factions that we currently have in V2 are perfectly sufficient for enemy variety in my opinion, and they should instead work on finishing and fleshing out the current factions that we have. The Beastmen are especially underdeveloped, there are a plethora of new units they could add, numerous tweaks they could and should do, meanwhile Skaven could easily get a plague monk censor bearer unit added to the game as a rare elite enemy, if more enemy variety is desired.

Like with new enemy factions, new heroes and careers are also something many people have asked for. There are definitely a lot of characters that could potentially be added, such as a Kislevite, a Brettonian, or even a High Elf.
Fatshark has already guaranteed a new career by the end of this year, so there’s no point in arguing against it, but new heroes are also ‘problematic’ in my eyes:

  • The amount of work that would have to be done would be huge. Assuming the developers wanted the new character to be up to snuff, it would have to feature 3 new careers, with unique mechanics, talents, abilities and weapons. Literally thousands of voice lines would have to be recorded, not just for the character and his comments about every single currently existing map, every future map, about all the other heroes, but they would also have to be interjected into the banter between the U5, and many voice lines would have to be recorded for them too.
  • A story arc would have to be created in order to incorporate any potential new character into the squad. Otherwise it would be extremely weird having everyone act as if that character has always existed, or worse yet, continue to act as if they don’t.
  • No doubt there would be numerous issues with the new character at launch. Talents not working, abilities not working, the new characters being under/overpowered, the new weapons being new and so on.

I just don’t think it would be worth all that effort. At the end of the day, the game would only get 3 new careers at best, who probably wouldn’t be all that drastically different to what we use right now. The game would still be the same, it would still be played the same way, we would still be fighting the same enemies, just in a slightly different way. It wouldn’t really increase the quality of the game, we would just get another addition to the game. I also think that Fatshark shouldn’t extend too much beyond the scope of the game, and therefore I think that the U5 should remain the primary protagonists of the Vermintide series. Of course, I may just be undervaluing their potential, and it would certainly be a big update to the game, but as I mentioned, there are issues that could happen and I just don’t think it would worth the effort and wouldn’t exactly fit the scope of the game.

Instead, I think the developers should work on what we already have. And what we have, are 15 careers, and while overall career balance is pretty solid, there are outliers that need to be looked into. But primarily, it’s the talent trees that need some tweaking, cause I swear there’s a talent that no one ever picks at every single row of every single career. Mercenary always takes Walk it Off, BH always takes Double Shotted, Handmaiden always takes the invisibility, WHC never takes the tiny 5% extra damage buff on tagged enemies, and never takes the talent to tag all enemies with his ult. Why would you ever take the 10% movement speed with RV over the 30% damage reduction or reload speed? Is that 10% movement speed actually really meta and I’m just missing out?
Often, it only just looks like there’s an illusion of choice, when in reality there’s only one (sometimes 2) talents that are any good, and if you’re using a specific set of weapons, there’s only one real choice of talents to pick.
Again, I think Fatshark should work and improve on what we already have, instead of adding new heroes that would take a ton of effort and ultimately wouldn’t really shake the game up all that much.

In regards to new weapons, there are limitations to those as well:

  • There’s only so many weapons you can add at this point. The armory of our heroes is already very well stocked.
  • Weapons such as a grenade launcher or trollhammer torpedo would be so very different from any ranged weapon, that it would be hard to balance (either overpowered or underpowered). Arguably these should be something akin to bombs, or even career abilities.
  • Adding too many weapons to every single hero (especially ones that don’t fit very well) would arguably be detrimental to the game, since it would make every hero feel more similar. The reason we don’t give elf blackpowder weaponry, Saltzpyre shield weapons, or Kruber a crossbow, is because it would make these characters less unique. Class/character specific weapons accentuate the character more, and shows what kind of role it can do.

If you look back to the very beginning of Vermintide 1 and to now, the amount of weapons we’ve gotten access to seems to be more than double (I mean for Sigmar’s sake, we only got the halberd in V2!). Again, once more, one more time and once again, I think that Fatshark should look into the weapons we currently have, because there are quite a few weapons that might as well not even exist.
To give some examples, there’s the 2h mace, widely called the worst melee weapon in the entire game. This weapon might as well not exist, barely no one uses it. If it got reworked, it would be exactly like getting a new weapon.
Then we have Saltzpyre, who only has 2 ranged weapons. But what about the repeater pistol or volley crossbow, I (don’t) hear you ask? The repeater pistol is only semi-viable with BH. The volley crossbow is utter trash. If you’re taking the volley crossbow, then it’s like not taking a ranged weapon at all. Sure, you can technically kill stuff with it, but it’s so bad, it’s so painful to use, and it’s so completely outclassed, that no one uses it, and it might as well not exist. If it got buffed like it did in the Weapon Rebalance mod, then it’d be like getting a new weapon.

Lastly, I’ll remind everyone that the developer of this game is Fatshark. They are extremely slow at pushing out updates and making any real change. Keep in mind that it took them 6 months to nerf Battle Wizard (essentially just swap the places of 2 talents and nerf them a bit), it took them 2 months to make any real change to the Beastmen at all, and it took them again around 6 months to get them where they are now, in the meanwhile they were terrorizing the game. Fatshark cannot make a lot of content, and often when they do make any content, it’s rushed, buggy and badly received. You cannot expect much from them, so how do people think the devs could add a new character in any reasonable amount of time and quality? Of course, I don’t want to rip on them too much, they did after all make the game, and not everything they’ve done is terrible, but there’s still a lot left to be desired.

I’m like 75% sure Fatshark knows what they’re doing, I’m pretty sure they know what the scope of the game should be, and they don’t need me to tell them what they should and shouldn’t be focusing on. But as a player of this game I can express what I want, and what I want them to work on are a cosmetics overhaul, new deeds system, another Big Balance patch to bring those weapons that I talked about up to actual usability, work on many of the talents, expand and work on the Beastmen, think about adding new gameplay elements (I may make a topic on what those could possibly be) and various other things to make the quality of the game better. Of course, since I labeled this a discussion, I’d like to see what other people think. Keep in mind this is all my opinion and I speak for no one but myself. Some statements may be hyperbolic.

TL;DR - I think the devs should focus on quality and what we have now, instead of adding new things. Also Fatshark bad but not that bad.

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If they focus on only polishing stuff that game will die very fast. Content is blood and butter of any game to be alive and thriving ( tf2 is something different)

Thats just sad truth :slight_smile: Just look at all that ppl saying where is new maps where is content 3 days after update :smiley:

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That’s not exactly what I talk about in my post. I’m not at all against adding new maps, and already stated that I want more content by adding new enemies. Deeds rework, cosmetics overhaul, new gameplay elements, Big Balance patch, these are all big changes that would add a lot of content to the game and breathe new life into it. I really don’t get why you talk as if I said ‘no content ever!! :rage: :rage: :rage:

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I completely agree, i’m glad you made this post.

They can add and improve so many systems right now. But instead they wanna rework entire systems and the dev time is just not worth it. I’d rather have QoL fixes to the crafting system for example (max salvage, rerolling Qol, illusions fixed, loadouts), i’m not against a rework or reworks in particular but it’s not worth the dev time it takes. If it takes 3 years to rework a crafting system (or deed system) and only 3 months for example to get Qol improvements, then i’d rather take that

I also agree with your opinion on new the new career. There are yet SO many things to improve or add to existing factions and careers. Don’t get me wrong, a new career is nice, but not at the cost of the entire game. Also like you said so much stuff is yet unfinished, and plenty of things could be added and expanded upon instead of just making an entirily new content.

Also not really hyped for versus. Will it really bring that many players in the game? How much dev time will it take from the vermintide team? Is the versus dev team a seperate team then the one working on the main coop game? Like for example season 3, will the content and fixes be worth the wait?

If you look at the content seperatly it’s indeed pretty nice, new maps, new gamemode, new faction sounds all very cool. But in reality it took way too much time and it’s not even perfect yet or done. Weaves is getting improved every season but waiting 1 year for ranked mm is honestly just weird and while ranked mm would be a good addition, waiting 1 year for it makes it a bad update automatically. So much stuff needs work, weapons, talents, careers, deeds, crafting, weaves, LE, beastmen. If there is an Qol issue in the game with a high encounter rate then it should be prioritized over a rework for example. Content should be worked on at the same time ofcourse but adding new content to existing systems is such a good and easy way to create content, LE, traits, talent changes, new enemies to existing factions (prob wouldnt work cuz of lore, idk).

But yes i completely agree.

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I got the game on launch day and went all in for some 1200 hours. At first I didnt notice any issues but as time went on I got more and more frustrated with game breaking bugs. I dont know how many bug reports I wrote but it was many and often it would be the same bug that just wasnt being fixed. Others did the same and the board was nothing but a venting hall for frustrated players who had been lied into believing the game was finished when it was by all accounts still in beta. A bad beta state that used paying costumers as beta testers. eventually I quit the game as it was too broken and didn’t play for a year. Coming back to the game I was hoping the devs would have fixed the issues plauging the game and by all accounts they had plenty time to do so. A lot had happen in that time. New expansions, new enemies, weaves, etc which all brought new life to the game. Much needed one would argue as FS misguided ways had effectively pushed 99% of the population away from the game leaving only the most hardcore players. Content is nice but FS had learned nothing and they are as misguided as ever. The same bugs that was present in the official beta are still present today. While they spend time in hats and ridiciolus reskins the same bug reports keep coming in.
I truly believe that vermintide is a diamond in the rough and og polished it could turn out to be something truly spectacular BUT not with FS at the Helm. I could not agree more on op’s post but from what have been seen and experienced from FS they are not capable of ever pulling the game out of beta. The best course of action for both FS and its player base would be to sell the tights to the game to a more experienced Company.
2 years of continues bug reports on silent specials, Assassin’s with no hit boxes, phantom swings etc and FS are still fumbling around making hats and waeves…

If someone, Anyone bought a car with a faulty Window they would deman It repaired. What FS is doing is sending people home with a sticker to put in the back of the car while leaving the window broken - look new skin for your car.

In my oppinion the game will die out before it reaches it’s finial state if left as is. New content is nice as I said but people will keep leaving when the game is bugged. FS needs to fix the game before they even begin to think about new content. As mentioned just look at the beastmen… they are horriblebly bugged. If everything they add are added ontop faulty code they are just digging themselves deeper down into a pit where they will ultimately never be able to crawl out of. perhaps this is already where they are now but.
I get that FS needs a continues stream of revenue to be able to keep working on the game but they should have fixed the game before launching it. I see much resemblance between fallout 76 and vermintide 2.

I for one are have reached a point where I would rather eat freeze dried vomit than keep playing.
As angry Joe says “they went and f***** it up” and they sure did.

The only thing keeping the game alive is the community. Amongst all the games I’ve ever played VT2 has the best community. Meeting and playing with cool and nice people is what kept me on during this second time going into the game.

IF I sound pissed it’s because I am. Vermintide is a dream game come true and it pisses me off that it’s Fatshark that decided to make it.

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There’s just too much that’s slightly wrong for there to appear to be traction.

Deeds
Crafting
Salvaging a mindless ballache
a few talents tweaks
Traits on weapons largely useless
Rerolling like a MoFo
LE having nothing on the shelves
3rd phase of Nurgloth still contentious
Some weapon tweaks
Some maps still skipped due to harsh endings
Twitch crashes when players join
Archers make me want to snap my keyboard
FK charge “features” - getting stuck on a blade of grass, getting hit/grabbed/pounced during charge
Hats not matching armour
/ insert your own additions here /

Problem is;

There’s so much to fix it’s a monumental job now, alongside development of VS which… well… I don’t meet any people at all hyped for this. There are simply too many things slightly wrong for FS to appear to make any headway. IF the did nothing but work on existing problems it’d still be Christmas before anything happened.

Massive amount of players will still soil themselves if new content doesn’t keep getting churned out. New content = returning players.
Returning players see old problems still here and go do something else.

And haven’t we got mandatory Swedish holidays coming up soon? So don’t hold your breath.

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Strongly disagree. FS may not be perfect, but Vermintide would not be the same without them.

Inb4 “it would actually be good hurr durr”.
No, it would most likely be some bland, lifeless, bloated mess of a game.
It might run better, it might have fewer bugs, but it would be boring.

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Sell the tights! I know it’s typo and I hope @AntiLoop will forgive me, but it did make me chuckle.

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I agree but that’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is that FS has shown their inability to fix the game as they have had 2 years to do so and nothing or too little has happen. If I time and time again showcase my inability to fix my pc I will eventually need to seek out someone with better skills to do it for me . what I won’t do is keep installing new hardware into the system.

Argonaut:
I actually caught the misspelling before replying but decided to leave it as it <3

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Screw this. Really. There are so many PvP games out there on any scale and form you like. I certainly dont see why we would need that, especially thinking about the maintenance a PvP mode would ask for. The amount of work they need to put into this in terms of Weapon, Talent and Skaven Balance is ridiculous compared to a simple Weapons balance, which we had not since BBB.

If FS wants to toss that in, they should do it when the game is solid and minor stuff needs tweaking, not when stuff like Knights ducking Valliant Charge is bugged since forever and even a 120 grit sandpaper would not be able to even out PvE weapons. (Some Knight love, only the smallest increment, pretty please!)

Apparently there is a patch around the corner, which will do some emporium stuff and hopefully some patching. By Sigmar, they got enough ideas presented via the Weapon Rebalance Mod and all the other stuff that got talked about in the last weeks. (I really try to get myself to not press to much hope in this, but I cant help it.)

That being said, Fixing stuff is not the ultima ratio. If there are no new maps, interesting weekly events, or other stuff that seems nice, replaying the content will grow old very quickly.

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I bet FS REALLY wish they never even announced it.

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How many active people are here in this forum? 50? And even among these you will not find consent on what FS should focus on. Even on people which I would say I agree more often, the common ground on what should happen is rather thin. And you, I, we have also to understand that a lot of potential “fixes” and changes is just not worthwhile.

I see often talk about Deeds. Truth is that a Deed rework (all while planned) is kinda not worthwhile because people actually playing Deeds is less than people playing Cataclysm. People will argue it is due the limitation of Deed Scrolls and lackluster options. But I am hard-pressed to believe that even after a rework where all “issues” are adressed the mode would be much more popular. There have been also talks of fusing the different modes which I also don’t see happening as they all have a different goal and I would prefer to keep different elements in their respective area. Winds should never be a thing outside of Weaves. Gimmickly modifiers should never be used outside of the Weekly Event (or also Twitch) as I consider it the non-lore restrained mode.

I see a lot of bashing for Versus. Am I interested in it? Obviously not. But what we need to understand is that Versus is not designed for us. We are co-op players. But truth again, Co-op players are a minority on the market. Versus mode is made for the millions of players currently not interested in Vermintide at all and not posessing a Vermintide game. Which is also the reason why Versus will most likely be stand-alone along many other reasons (separate balance, starting with fewer maps/weapons/classes to ease balance, different forums to avoid flaming wars where they don’t belong, lower more competitive pricing, DLC handling etc.).

I see the stupid argument about “same” bugs and spaghetti code over and over again. Most likely though, these are not 2 years old bugs but new bugs with the same result in-game. And I also don’t think that another engine would solve these problems as a lot of the problems arise from “priorisation issues” of far to many things happening at once. The only thing we would gain by another engine would be modder accessibility (which for some might be huge, for others completely pointless).

Then we have the endless discussions about balance (classes, talents, weapons). And over and over it has been shown that with very few exceptions we can’t reach an agreement there as well. Still don’t like the mod rebalance for different reasons and others too, so I would be pissed if some of these changes would go live. Even on talents we would need the actual statistics to make a statement. Some of the talents you mentioned are most likely super useful on lower difficulties or on playstyles we just don’t have on our mind (Sidenote: I do use the Handmaiden Bleed Talent on Cataclysm and it works quite well). Traits has some rather problematic trait(s) however on the upper side. It is near impossible to fix this due to community outcry (at least the loud part). Then we have map difficulty balance. Truth is on Cataclysm public games I have not seen anyone skipping a map in the last 3-6 months. People do play everything even if it is harder.

On enemy factions, I’m halfway with you. Just adding something for the purpose of adding doesn’t lead anywhere. So new units should add new gameplay elements like all of the original Beastmen rooster has done. But even here I personally don’t see the point of adding more specials to them, actually don’t want to see more specials, super-especially no disablers (unless we remove another disabler first). Some more elites like Chaos Warhounds sound interesting, maybe something more. But even adding just new units to existing factions can cause a lot of backslash (remember the new specials for L4D2? Like the Jockey? Man, did they hate on that one). But concerning Beastmen and what could be added, I am pretty sure this has been discussed a few times already.

So for a lot of things, Fatshark has to wonder if something should be changed and how. And this is a game they can only lose because someone will always complain. So the question is “Does it work?” “Somehow”. And then you need to have actually really good arguments to traverse a mine field on purpose. So to quote you:

That isn’t to say that there isn’t stuff which most will agree. I think common logic dictates that bug fixing is never wrong (although here as well some few unfortunates seem to have faaaar more bugs than other people). For some things I wonder though if a few things are really bugs or intentional for different reasons.

Cosmetics not enough is partly just a problem of Veterans as less invested players have a lot of commendation chest hats to buy and due to less playtime also less Shilling. Also I think that cosmetics will be a focus of Season 3.

QoL (terrible term) changes are also hugely subjective. A lot of stuff I see in the sanctioned mods I don’t need. Some I don’t even want in the game. Others have been implemented in the game.

So the issue for FS is, the changes you (general term not you you) want are not the changes I want (general term not I I). There are changes I would like to see to weapons, to talents, to the Weekly Events but they are different to what others want. So find something which everyone agrees on and I am pretty sure FS would instantly work on it. Problem is, it doesn’t exist. And before anyone throws around majorities, remember that only FS has the telemetric data to make educated statements. Everything in this forum no matter how well prepared is just opinion (unless bugs, bugs are real). If I had to make a decision on what to focus (you just have to check like half of my created threads) I would say working over the existing DLCs and improving them by adding for example a new map on each of them. It would increase the ratings, which would increase the sales. If they add another map to Back to Ubersreik (just let us retrieve whatever we sealed in the Trial of the Foolhardy from Wizard’s Tower) for example they could even slightly increase the price like one euro to compensate the costs and to reward people who bought earlier. Or add a secret ending to Bögenhafen. Ideas are out there. Second thing I would like to see it to tone down some of the more overpowering game elements (weapons, trait(s), talents).

I think I’ve lost the point a few times in there …

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Just wanna comment on this one in particular. And i agree Qol is subjective and everyone has some thing they want to make less tedious, but the higher the encouter rate the higher i think it’s becoming less subjective. QoL fixes are overall well received in every game i feel. Like for example the change they made so you can’t reroll the same twice in a row, that’s a high encounter rate Qol fix which i’m sure was well received. Mods are just options tbh, i would like to see some things from sanctioned mods implemented in the base game on default, which i think wouldn’t bother other players (having the mod meanwhile is great ofcourse) like for example: loadout manager, crosshair fix, no wobble (toggle) those i think are pretty general options every player would benefit from without them being unhappy.

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Whether or not the game mode is popular should be put aside for now. Of course it’s not popular when it is in a state like this. As it is right now, you can’t craft deeds and are completely at the mercy at RNG for the modifiers. What a deed rework would entail in my mind is just the simple ability of crafting deeds with the modifiers that you want. That by itself would fix the core issue with deeds, and anything else like deed matchmaking is secondary, arguably deeds should be for more premade squads. Now that I write that out, does that sound like a lot? Does that sound like a lot of effort? It really doesn’t seem like it. Would it be worth it? I certainly think so, even if it doesn’t attract that many players, it would still fix a lot of what people hate about deeds, build trust between the devs and the playerbase, and it would show a willingness to improve the game and its features. Since Deeds are a mechanic in this game, they should be good and functional, regardless of whether or not it’s overtly popular for the sake of quality.

I hope that Versus will be successful, but I’m not overly optimistic. You and I know they have fudged several things throughout the development of both Vermintides, and I’m also familiar with how War of the Roses went (I played that game, was quite a lot of fun, Fatshark definitely has a lot of experience making good melee games). It’s very likely that Versus will have several issues at launch, the hope is that it’s not catastrophic. I doubt, however, that Versus isn’t slowing down the already slow development cycle of V2, so it is something that is indirectly affecting the game.

I think most of us know this, and it’s also kind of irrelevant. What matters is the result, and V2 has certainly had it’s history with numerous bugs, especially when 2.0 launched. The point of frustration is not only that the bugs exist, but that they keep resurfacing over and over, and Fatsharks’ slow response in dealing with them.

Yeah, I don’t entirely disagree. Some think that a new engine would be a magical solution to all of V2’s problems. Even if you disregard that, many decisions that Fatshark have taken in regards to the game have been strange at best, and you can’t pin that on the engine.

Well of course, this is a very broad subject that you’ve taken, so naturally people are going to have different opinions about every little detail. The point is not for ‘us’ to reach and agreement necessarily, but to give Fatshark data on what should be done, and then it’s up for them to decide (they are, after all, the developers of this game).
But are you saying that you disagree with my 2 choices of weaponry? Regardless of what data says about weapon usage and win rates, the Volley Crossbow is objectively a very weak weapon to use, and for many (including me), very unfun. The 2h mace is universally regarded as the weakest melee weapon in the game, or do you think otherwise? You have to remember, that many of us are players who have thousands of hours in the game. If there’s anything that we are better at than Fatshark, is gauging weapon effectiveness and actually playing the game. From a purely technical standpoint, we are playtesters - we are the data. We have very legitimate estimations on weapon effectiveness, what should be buffed and what should be nerfed, the only thing for the developers to decide is what power level do they want to have weapons on? Do they want to make most weapons on par with something like the executioner, or the falchion? Regardless, you know yourself that the difference between the 2h mace and the executioner is vast, same with volley crossbow and brace of pistols. These extremes should be pulled together, unless you think Fatsharks’ plan is to have certain weapons be really weak for some reason?

Yeah, same here, but it’s still an important mod for the game. It showed just how easily Fatshark could implement changes if they wanted them, and it’s a great place to playtest any hypothetical changes to weapons that we want.

Buckshot is not better than Double Shotted, the movement speed is not better than damage reduction or reload speed, 5% extra damage against tagged enemies is not in any case better than 5% crit chance for the entire party or 10% attack speed for WHC. This isn’t subjective in any way, these talents are absolutely inferior, unless you have some objections? It really couldn’t mattter less how many people pick any of the other options. It doesn’t say anything except that people don’t know what trait to pick.

Sure, it works well, but that doesn’t mean that the invisibility talent isn’t better and enables Handmaiden to be really powerful.

Aye, and the overall lack of talents, lack of weapon customization and lack of any real choice.

Neither have I, and I consider map balance to be a very minor thing to consider. I’ve expressed my opinion before on this, but most maps are generally similar in overall difficulty.

Like the wargors, bestigors, ungor archers. It’s also why I was sad when they removed the special AI from the ungor spearmen instead of trying to refine it. It made them arguably weaker than skavenslaves.

I’m not talking about just specials, there’s a lot the Beastmen lack. They don’t have a shield unit, they don’t have a berserker unit, they have but 1 elite with a little gimmick, 1 special and 1 boss monster. In terms of unit diversity they have less than half of what Chaos. They are the one faction in the game that literally cannot function without other factions supporting it. Beastmen should be able to stand on their own, so that maybe one day we could get a true story arc for them, with a Beastlord fight at the end, with little to no interference from other factions. And they should get these units, shielded gors are a staple Beastmen unit, and it makes them significantly less susceptible to cleave. It makes no sense how they don’t have any berserker units, since that is once again a big part of the Beastmen identity, you could easily make a unique berserker enemy with whatever weapon selection you want, to make them fight differently from everything else. In terms of specials they can definitely get more, like a Bray Shaman with whatever spell you want to pick from the pre-existing lores of magic. Harpies, centigors, chaos warhounds, all of these could be potential new additions to the faction. And I see no reason to keep the Beastmen as they are right now. They don’t have any serious identity.

I don’t really think such a statement is true. No one would hate on Fatshark for doing things like fixing bugs, or changing obviously useless talents, buffing underpowered and completely forgotten weapons like the Volley Crossbow, or overhauling something like cosmetics and giving us more freedom and choices to kit our heroes out with. I certainly think that with many regards people can nitpick about how they decided to do it, but not that they did.

I’m talking on a more grand scale than just adding new hats. One of V2’s advertised features was a cosmetic system, yet in all regards the cosmetics we have in V2 are arguably worse than in V1. And then the fact that all we have are basic recolors, a lot of the hats we have are the same but with just minor differences, and the inability to have hats match recolors, lack of unique designs etc. And would it be worth it? They can definitely make money from creating more premium cosmetics, and many people would praise Fatshark for finally putting work into creating a much better cosmetic system. I think it could be a big thing for the game, and after all, they have to put development into something, otherwise you could just say ‘oh, nothing is worth doing, just have the devs abandon the game’.

You wouldn’t want something like ‘Salvage All’, the ability to pick specific properties and traits instead of reroling 50 times just to get what you want, the ability to see who is wounded, how much ammo everyone has and so on? I don’t think this is something subjective.

I think you have too much of an unholy reverence for the telemetric data that Fatshark has (and presumably you haven’t even seen). As I mentioned before, there are things that are objective, like the gap between various weapons, the effectiveness of certain loadouts, the absolute uselessness of certain talents, objective and literal weapon properties and so on. Keep in mind that if anything, we are effectively playtesters with thousands of hours playing the game. We know what is effective, what is weak, what is overpowered, we are better at playing the game than the devs I would assume.

And what about Battle Wizard? I don’t mean to be rude, but you’d have to be missing your brain to not see how broken she was. And yet it took them 6 months to really do anything about her (better yet, they kept buffing her by letting DoT’s affect superarmour). Same with the Beastmen. On launch they were absolutely brutal, and public outcry was universal. Just by doing some basic testing and looking at stats and attack animations you can see how busted they were. I really don’t think it’s that they’re trying to be super careful considering how many times they’ve messed it up, but rather that they’re just incapable.

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I wanna keep my opinion here short:

I pretty much agree with most of the stuff the OP said, focus on what you have and don’t start a new project when you have unfinished business left.

I can understand that FS needs time to get content to market (since own engine, small studio, etc.),
what I can’t understand is why they keep adding new projects to care about to the list.
They already have a lot of stuff JUST for maintanance (Base Game / Deeds / Weaves on PC aswell as on Consoles) and want to add VERSUS to that list aswell?! But that’s too late to cancel I guess.
What I’m missing are the BETA tests… why are they canceled again? There was a Beta for Drachenfels 1, the map was released in a good state, none for 2 (several false Challenges were added as far as I remember but still an ok state, number 3… well, it’s a nice map, nothing against that, but the Blightstormers casting through walls before the laste part and the final event are just a pure mess to me… I’m not sure if offical Betas are too much work but atleast FS should focus on actually testing their content pre release a little better… another thing that I miss are actual rewards and Challenges for the game, it was smth. that kept me engaged when i started the game. To play for new hats and borders and stuff, just smth worth it waiting to be claimed… nowadays it’s just some worthless Commendation Chests or Art that is cut out of existing Games Workshop content… and that’s sad, it’s just unlovingly tattled dirt. If you ask me what FS should focus on it’s just some love for their own content.

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I strongly disagree. I think both have to be done in parallel.
A new character (which shouldn’t happen yet said fatshark) is probably the most asked thing by players. And would bring back a lot of old ones as well.
Something that no amount of QoL will do. Despite thoses being important (I would certainly like beastmens having one more special)

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Did you mean 1h mace? Cause I have definitely stopped caring about that weapon. It’s just meh.

Besides that, yeah I agree with no greenskins and no new heroes.

Everyone want’s that, but it’s not gonna be like that and it’s not like that right now. We still hope but being realistic and looking at the speed at how they handled previous content updates it’s probably gonna take way too much time, be half finished (a career isn’t a new map), probably have new bugs. It’s gonna add ontop all those new issues. Ofcourse new content is hype and brings back alot of players and new ones, but everyone is just gonna leave again once they encouter the same bugs that they’ve seen a year ago, still have annoying crafting etc. So right now i’d rather get the most important things fixed and stay away from big updates such as a new career, new faction. But i agree normally the best is ofcourse without a doubt pushing out fresh content, fix or expand existing content while meanwhile focusing on bugs.

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Sienna’s mace.

It is like that right now. Too slow for your taste (and probably mine as well), but it’s absolutely like that right now.
We have balance patch AND new content mostly at the same time.
QoL stuff (Lohner’s shop) and Drachenfels maps for example.

Every new content will be like that, that shouldn’t stop them from doing new content. They’ll learn from their mistakes eventually.

We don’t need a new faction right now. I do agree. But new career should have been here for a while really. This is like question number one from returning players “Still no new careers/characters ?”.

I would dare to say that new ways of playing are way more needed than new maps at this point (as we tend to have a good number of maps right now). Which is why Nurgloth was great. It was “New”. And it did ask for some new tactics (kinda like what a new enemy for a new faction or for an old faction would do).

Now what do you call “most important stuff”. Because I didn’t really encountered any annoying bug lately.

Remember that attracting players (old and new) is probably as important as retaining them. It’s what keeps the game “alive” (so people to play with, and people who actually pay stuff, funding future content and fixes).

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