Well that’s why the game is going to sh*t, because that is major issue. I think @Yzneftamz wrote great post explaining why.
You can’t have this kind of ridiculous bug fest going on, and expect people to stick with the game. You can hype stuff up, but people will come, see the mess, and be like "F*ck this … " or "Omg it’s same old here… I will come check next big update maybe… " and so on.
Which is part of why the numbers are hitting record lows right after the biggest expansion they did so far.
That is huge failure, and they did not seem to learn anything from it.
I would not bet on that. But I kinda hope, it’s like when you buy lottery ticket.
If only they did, like people are still complaining that they are joining as different classes, and what is it, over 2 months after WOM ? I saw people still reporting that Merc/WHC ult is bugging out … (didn’t play it lately so not sure). Or Zealot ult is still not working, and that’s like year old issue. I could go on and on and on.
Yeah because I didn’t say that. I said that adding a lot of people to a project doesn’t magically solve issues.
For example, if you’re working on your new “talent guide” for Witch Hunter Captain, you can probably have some collaborator that gives you some builds, but you’re still the one writing it. Having 100 people writing on your guide at the same time will be a bit chaotic.
This is the same in code. You won’t have 10 developpers working on the sound issue at the same time.
A poll in forums that a minority is looking at isn’t going to prove something. Topics that do asked for it came in a lot of numbers and that do prove that it was actually asked.
Legends was the way to go before. If you want to compare old balance with new balance, you have to look at legend. Of couse Cataclysm balance is not there yet, and we do agree, but it isn’t a proof that it’s “worse than before”. As before, cataclysm didn’t exist at all. So compare what you can compare.
Legend is a bit harder and it’s great (it was too easy since 1.6). Dodge was op and was nerfed (note that the community DID find dodge op at the time).
Shields are actually PLAYABLE instead of being the LEAST defensive weapon in the game like before. Dodge is reliable yet require you more timing. And you can have some choice in talents instead of 1 way to go and that’s all.
New difficulty is what frustrate you, because of the imbalance and because it was not done right.
Worse state than before meaning old content is in a worse state ? I strongly disagree.
Even if they did start working on it a year ago. That means they have a bigger team that can actually produce more content for the game insead of waiting 10 months before having 2 new maps (which was the first dlc :p).
Sure, but if you are working on Wikipedia kinda sized stuff, and got many different topics you need a lot of ppl.
This is not like they are working on one singular bug. There is soooo many things it’s not guide for one class. It’s guides for 100 classes.
I do get this point, but … again, you know how many issues there are right ? It’s not one sound bug in W94 kinda problem.
And where is that ? Steam forums are complete cesspool. That should be nearly irrelevant imo.
Was the Versus most asked thing in the big beta poll ? No, I don’t think so. Was it asked in the j_Sat’s reddit poll ? No… Where was it that people asked for it aside from steam forums ?
Well it is still garbage even in Legend, it’s just like… after so many hours, I can play Legend kinda with anything, from classes and weapons I did play a lot. (Didn’t really play Slayer & BW but can do kinda anything else) but that’s irrelevant in context of balance.
It’s like, imagine that balance is even worse than now, like super horrible, as bad as it can like imaginably be… and someone starts arguing “Dude , but you can do recruit with this worst class and loadout possible ! so… it’s fine man” Well no it’s not fine
It’s the “You can’t balance from bottom up” issue. Now that Cata is top, balance needs to be from top down.
I don’t even think anyone from my friendlist is playing Legend… who is even playing Legend now ? It is irrelevant for older players.
That is also irrelevant, those could be tweaked without all the other mess. And those should get tweaked already in 1.6.
The main issues that are strongly pissing me off are the general combat problems, and that is everywhere. Not just in Cata. Mobs attacking thru other mobs, the new insane running attacks, getting hit during the dodge, zerkers being completely busted also, broken temp HP and many other things, it’s not just Cata related imbalances.
I don’t know what’s your deal with poll as a view of all players. They attain way less people than what you could see in the most visited forum of the game (more than reddit or the official one). Even if it’s a bit of a mess. It’s still way more relevant than a “beta poll”.
I mean, it’s even hardly debatable that this was a feature that was asked a freakin’ lot. Not by you, not by me, but by a lot of people.
Well, then what exactly is relevant to you in order to speak about balance and compare it to before ?
Well, there’s still more builds than before, and that do work in cata. But yeah, cata could get another balance pass. I do agree.
If you consider it all as “irrelevant”, then prove me that the balance is worse than before (with something other than “a poll”).
There was a pool right in the launcher, during the beta, that is as close to players as you can get.
That is debatable, I’ve not see it anywhere and as you know, I’m quite active on reddit, on discords and here.
Obviously end-game difficulty balance, since that is what everyone from older players seems to be playing and just today I read how some guy was boasting how he is playing cata after 50 hours… so cata balance is relevant. I’m not dropping down to legend to play non-op class, and don’t think anyone else wants to do that.
I don’t need to prove anything in terms of balance, just fire up cata and play some non meta stuff. If you want something specific I mentioned FK many times. Just take FK with normal weapon not that OP busted shield and go carry pub cata. Won’t take too long before you see what a nightmare it is.
I could go on, but come on… It’s like you’re telling me you saw no one asking for a bretonnian, a lizard or a vampire as a new character. (despite the gold magister being the more interesting choice gameplay wise while also being lore friendly)
Ok Imma ignore the steam and some outer forums who prolly don’t know much about the game (what VT2 fan is posting about it and pvp on overclockers.co.uk … that’s irrelevant) and go for forum and reddit links:
13 upvotes - thats nothing… stuff that community rly wants have like 100-500 or more, with comments getting like 100+ (for example the “omg add the night maps finally”)
Sure its not like one Working on one bug but you have to see that they need to get a Balance of work for thier employees or did you want them to hire 100 ppl everyone of them fix at least one or two bugs and then kick them out of the company again cause they got no work left for team this big after it’s fixed how would you like it to get hired by a company cause they got a lot of work at one time and when you did you’re job they say : hey you did great for a month or two but now it’s all fixed ,normally we got a smaller sized team what’s enough for our normal work flow soooooo here’s the door…
I’m saying that is super obvious that they can’t get stuff done… game is mess kinda all the time, they need more ppl to get it in order and a taking resources and allocating them onto new mode (that will probably be as big of a success as weaves…) is ridiculous.
While I do think that from time to time someone wished for versus, I don’t think they thought about how imbalanced that would be.
And as FS said versus was only a pet project of someone, just to play with the idea.
Bu suddenly this is so viable as to build actual game from it is somewhat hard to believe.
Since FS never says anything, not even how they intend it to work, or to be balanced, it’s no wonder that V2 veterans are scratching their head…
If they create post “NIGHT MAPS CONFIRMED TO STAY” , it will most probably get similar upvotes or even more.
These posts after, about something new, are filled with hype. I don’t think it’s optimal marker.
It’s like weaves, how many upvotes it got when announced ? It was probably something crazy right ? Well and how it ended up ?
I think you should have both, crapload of votes before and then after, not just after, especially when it’s something exotic like this.
But hey, we will see how this plays out. But I would be willing to bet that it’s going to crash and burn and we will still have bugged main game and nobody is actually happy.
They usually come from left 4 dead 2 which is unbalanced as well tbh.
Before there was a lot of topics that did ask for this. The fact that it’s not ‘upvoted’, or that you ignore purposefully steam forums doesn’t change this.
Now this was announced and, by your way of viewing things with upvotes on reddit, more people agrees with this choice than disagreeing with (or the post would have been downvoted to hell). By a huge margin.
Doesn’t change what ? Like what weight can u add to post that have 35% upvote/downvote rate jesus.
And I ignore steam forums cos it’s full of trolls and there are hardly any meaningful threads. And again overclocking forum, what ? Everyone who plays the game for some time knows about the reddit or the more interested players about official forums.
I ignore stuff that has no weight, because it’s mostly noobs (outer forums) or trolls (steam) posting there.
Like would you start conversation about new possible VT2 game mode on overclocking forum ? Or cooking forum ? Or motorcycling forum or whatever ? No, ofc not… you start it on VT2 reddit or VT2 forums so other ppl or devs can see it and react to it.
I thought this is obvious.
As I said in previous post, it’s something exotic, hyped with trailer, special page etc … that’s prolly not good marker, especially considering it mostly negative reaction in all the reddit threads and that one forum thread.
edit: And the trailer did look good… so yea ppl won’t down it. But they don’t see the consequences and costs. And as @Palesz said… like lol how are they balancing it when they can’t balance the main game ?! Also no dedicated servers, man… there will be ragequits everywhere. (on top of crashes of course )
Well people did ask for this. Having hundreds of topic asking this is a proof. Wether others players do care or not about the post itself. It was a recurring topic. As proven by thoses topics. This is not a matter of acceptation there. This is only a matter of proving that people did ask for this.
C’mon you really want to speak about reddit ?
This type of mode is not balanceable. Don’t wait for a perfectly balanced competitive, it will never happens even if Blizzard does it. But wait for fun competitive. (If it’s done well)
Now this will bring a lot of people. They also have to work their main game as well in order to keep players that are coming back now.
Working several things at once is common and not mutually exclusive in game development.
People ask for all kinds of weird stuff, that doesn’t mean anything.
Well I get what you mean, but it’s a spectrum, the trollness range. And Steam forums are cranked up to 11/10. While reddit is some decent 5/10 or something
Then people won’t play it for a long, it will be attraction for few weaks and then it will be dead, burned dev time … that could be used on fixing the main game, the replayable stuff, the gameplay that most ppl are here for.
Hey, Blizz actually might do well in future ! Listened to some dev Q&A about D4 and even tho he looked like kinda noob (workin on D4 as Lead and didn’t know terms from PoE… Will there be SSF ? uh … mmm SSF ? Will there be Hideouts … umm ? ) they are actually copying stuff from PoE, doing gem linking in form of runes, doing basically poe map style end game system etc.
Well, I have to agree with Froh on this one. You cannot really balance two teams of characters with this wildly different sets of abilities. There is a reason L4D2’s versos comes in pairs of rounds.
But I guess you all agree that if two teams of veterans play against each other and two of casuals while the winrate of The Pact and the Ubersreik Five is about equal Ballance will be met?
This is not impossible but hard.
Dough as I rember the win is decided by which party progresses further trough the lvl so I guess my previous statmen is a bit off should they stick with this.
About equal can be done. It’s just that “about equal” will be less equal than say the “about equal” from chess (which is around 54% with the white advantage). And this is the about equal that Fatshark should fight for.
L4D/1/2 proves otherwise. They will stay longer due to the inherent “randomness” caused by players (bad or good).
Now, it’s another matter if we, veterans of the pve game, like it or not. And that is another matter.
Let’s hope so. Reapers of Souls did a lot of good to D3.
I can understand them not knowing “SSF” and “Hideouts” terms, which are from PoE but not in any other “diablo-like” I know (Grim Dawn, Titan Quest, Torchlight, etc…) so rather specific terms.
I’m more afraid that they’re looking at PoE on the financial aspect of it (therefore fully going f2p) to be honest. (this is not the best part of PoE when you like cosmetics, even if did help tremendously when it comes to its success as an indepedant game that did not have a publisher even if it’s not P2W at all)
On the topic of dedicated servers. If I really do not care about them for a pve game, it will be more problematic in a pvp game, if there’s no way to determine when a player does leave.
In L4D though, usually, a lot of people leave when it switch round, due to L4D not having any punishment for leaving, and game being quite long.
This is the length that will also need to be looked at as it could be an issue nowadays.
Overwatch / TF2 “Push the cart” mode usually also swap rounds, and it’s less frequent as rounds are more fast overall.
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