Vet's talent tree is good but not great

It has 3 horizontal connecting lines with 3 small nodes (Operative Modifiers) on each that greatly penalize movement from one side of the tree to the other. It also has the highest number of nodes overall so reaching keystones is more difficult than for other classes (especially if not choosing a straight line down). On a top of that it has one Aura (Survivalist - on the left side of the tree) which is mandatory to take. Because of all the mentioned the number of viable builds is limited.

I would suggest removing 1 small node from all horizontal lines. Taking inspiration from Psyker’s and the top part of Ogryn’s tree. This might save about 2 points on average in the top/mid part of the tree (in most builds) that can be invested elsewhere.
You can find more info on the image as well as some comments and ideas about other changes I would recommend for Vet’s Talents, Auras, Blitzes and Abilities.

Side note: I actually removed only one ‘Operative Modifier’ completely, the rest are moved (out of the way) to different places and they can be taken optionally.


Smoke nades countering fire surfaces is a really interesting idea!!!

Crowd control control :slight_smile:


Alright… Smokes snuffing flames I’m into…

I still don’t like them because they adversely impact performance, but that’d definitely make them at least useful.


I agree with you in general. While I’ve not given it that much thought as you did, I would also welcome some of the changes you’ve proposed. Especially this:

  1. Make Survivalist a baseline aura
  2. Buff the exec stance by giving it reload on ult
  3. Make smoke grenades have at least a niche use by being able to extinguish fire

I’ve also got a pretty big beef with the Marksman Focus keystone, since it is absolute opposite of what it tries to be. Instead of being a rewarding buff tailored for high-power, precision weapons (f.e. hellbore), it works best when paired with anything that is able to spew as many bullets as possible.
Pair it with the the stacking brittleness perk from the right tree on f.e. a Columnus IAG and see everything melt… As long as you do not need to kite. That is the second part, the fact that you lose stacks while moving is just bad. It conflicts with the team coherency mechanics, prevents you from utilizing the insane damage output when you need it most: while fighting bosses (hit the Beast of Nurgle in the back without moving… Or keep track of Chaos Spawn which changes aggro every 5 seconds) and is next to useless when you need to clutch and kite.

I would be more for having an optional evolution of it, which gives you strong buff while you ADS, but prevents you from movement as long as you ADS. Deep Rock Galactic has one modifier that does something similar (huge dps boost, but you cannot move as long as you fire) and it is a bit tricky to adjust to, but feels rewarding.

Other than that, the 20% chance to have double grenades is a meme. Either merge it completely with the +1 grenade perk, so it has some niche use or threw it out of the airlock and put there something else.


And to turn a phrase: they’d still remain least useful.


Agreed. At best be relegated to more than just an active hindrance if they had some function other than obscuring the vision of teammates from threats and adversely impacting performance

MEGA: Make Executioner’s Great Again

But, seriously though if it just did what it used to it’d be great.

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I’d settle for it having a toughness regen. 50% instant, 50% over 5 seconds.

Since FS can’t do simple things like add exceptions to the instant reload like Bolter, and Plasma they probably won’t re-add it.

EDIT: Oh, and almost forgot the ability should tick down at half rate while you have your melee weapon out instead of basically cancelling it.

RE:Marksman Focus keystone:
Yes, fair points. I don’t like it either. I didn’t mention it because I didn’t have a definitive answer to the problem. I like your idea that it should rather reward precision. Thinking of it now I would actually want it to reward you with stacks for a weak spot hit and loose stacks if you miss - body (and limb) shots would not build stack but not even loose stacks. And maybe totally scrap the whole movement penalties. The only penalty could be that you start loosing stacks slowly if not hitting a weak spot for let’s say 5 seconds. What do you think?

Strong buff while you ADS and not move is also an interesting one. It would sort of buff Deadshot further. Maybe if you gave it extra stamina regen rewards so you could use Deadshot for an extended time, that would make it a great combo.

RE:Twin Blast:
I even forgot about this one. Yes, I agree that it is very underwhelming at its current state. 20% chance means that you need to throw 5 grenades to get 1 thrown for free. I think even increasing it to 33% would make a decent difference - you would need to throw 3 grenades to get 1 free. Which would make it almost as useful as Demolition team.

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Yes, unfortunately.

I remember seeing one older Reddit post where the poster mentioned that it also could outline enemies behind it for the whole team (just like executioner’s stance with the enhanced target priority modifier) - but in a different colour. If it highlighted enemies than it also could be a thicker smoke and look visually better because now it looks like some weird mist. That would also improve it’s usefulness a bit.

I don’t see why exceptions are needed here.
Even though Executioner’s Stance is stronger now then the old Volley Fire (+25% damage) the increased ability cooldown should balance it. Even with Tactical Awareness you would need to kill 7-8 specialists to be able to spam the ability and reload over and over again - which is mainly doable in Auric/Maelstrom (where in many cases there is a 20% ability cooldown reduction too on a top of that). It would be easy to spam reload in specialist waves like dogs, bursters or muties though.

MF is such a simple design fix.

Make it gain stacks on kill, and more on headshot kill. No timer.

Lose 50% of maximum possible stacks on miss.

Can’t use autoguns with MF now. You can now boost it to not be a big nothing burger on single shot weapons’ breakpoints without worrying about making things like MK V even more op.

It is now thematically appropriate to its name, and will no longer hinder movement in a movement based game.


I’d rather see Marksman’s Focus ONLY apply to semi-auto weapons, MAYBE the burst-fire headhunters.

I do kinda enjoy the shoot and scoot mechanics MF currently promotes (stable platform vs movement hindering aim).

50% loss on miss would likely be more harsh to single-fire weapons that you’d think, particularly since the server interpolation loves to eat shots (ghost hits). Hence why I’d rather have no “punishment” and it simply focus on a subset of weaponry… likely wouldn’t be something they want to do, though since FS are keen on sweeping buffs/debuffs rather than specific ones… Other than the lasgun crits… there are exceptions to their arbitrary rules, of course!

The punishment doesn’t need to be as harsh as 50%. Loosing 3 stack per miss would do.

And you could gain them let’s say:
2 stacks for a weak spot kill
1 stack for a normal kill
1 stack for a weak spot hit (I’d like to have this too since it would allow buffs even in scenarios when there are no enemies except 1 monstrosity - so hitting its weak spot would reward you)
on body hits wouldn’t gain or loose stacks

I’m saying this because I don’t think there is a way FS will make MF LIMITED to semi or burs fire guns so the punishment could be the limitation.

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