Veteran Tree's - Weak Talents?

What passive talents do you never use or are too weak (some may just be bad positions)? and what would you really want for Vet that just isn’t raw damage as new passive talents?


Get Back in the Fight: Stun/Slow Imunnity for 6s on toughness break

Seems like a bad pick should attempt to prevent toughness break and when it does not sure this will save you.

Covering Fire, Leave No One Behind, Twin Blasted, Competitive Urge

Good stats but niche uses. TB & CU just low low proc chance (Would rather higher chance at less boost)

Grenadier +1 Grenade

Should probably just be a blitz modifier or baked into demolition stockpile (normalize all standard blitz to 2 grenades)

Ability Modifiers

Kind of hit or miss for me, can be decent but also reliant on CD spam… so maybe less if CDR also nerfed.

Smoke Grenade

Various ideas from making it also confused / stun smoked enemies to making it a short group stealth Baradin style.

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Long shot

The 20% extra damage from range hardly ever comes into play considering 80% of the enemies want to hit you in melee and spawn about 5 meters away from you tops. It hardly really ever effects any sort of breakpoints on enemies you would fight at any sort range anyways because they fold like paper anyways. It’s a pretty worthless passive because it just does not fit the game at all.

Keep their heads down

Okay does anyone even consider suppression in dt

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True when testing in Psyk seems like its also a all or nothing proc similar to what “Kill-Zone” was prior to rework of not getting hit… possibly just a noob trap talent or for those long range shoot outs with low hp targets.

I haven’t really attempt to test it either you also gain a flat 25% suppression just before it too so not sure if it’s really needed or not.

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Leave no one behind is probably my second favorite Vet talent after Field Improv. It’s a fairly good substitute for the “Insta-Revive” shout.

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Suppression is good for Reapers in Havoc, that’s it. As long as you reach certain values of suppression, you can make them cower while you shoot them.

For Dreg/Scab Gunners it’s easier to just kill them as soon as possible, so against them suppression is actually counter-productive. When they cower, it becomes harder to hit the weakspot.

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This + 12% revive curios has been one of the best talent synergies for Stealth Vet. It takes 2 seconds per revive instead of 4.

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I also like it against spread-out, far away shooters. Since my aim’s arse and I need them to stop firing/scatter whilst I get within’ beatin’ range.

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Covering Fire really should just be the aura pick, but the numbers would ideally be toned down for it.

All the RNG talents in the Vet tree should be reworked. For example, Demo Team is either absolutely bonkers broken or just plain worthless. However, that’s balancing for high havocs and shouldn’t really be a thing.

Competitive Urge would probably be something like:

Start with A stacks of Competitive Urge. Lose B stacks for every B number of ally kills and gain C stacks for every personal kill. Gain (buffs) at A+X number of stacks for E seconds.

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I do prefer it over grenade only downside is if someone is quicker to ally than you, was thinking could add to improve reviving speed of someone attempting pick and still apply boon to ally

I would like to see a node that is “Targeting Array”, or “Targeting Ocular Implant”. It would highlight priority targets and give a small bonus. Similar highlighting to Disrupt Destiny, but just shooters and specials. I think it would be interesting it if didn’t do the full FOV, but just a large region in the center of the screen. Could be a keystone too with modifiers, but I don’t want it to be something you have to activate. I know we’re rejects but we can’t find a good battery for it?

I would also like to see all blitzes have modifier nodes. For example Krak could have an upgrade node to change it to a plasma grenade. Just as effective to armor, a little more boss damage, but also leaves a puddle of plasma that damages enemies that walk through it.

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It sounds awfully similar to Executioner’s Stance, don’t know how this would fit in =/

Yes, Veteran and Zealot are ripe for blitz modifiers, remove some glut operative modifiers and add some more interesting blitz modifiers. Grenade Tinker becoming unbound to middle tree and each perspective boost to its blitz

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For sure. Executioners stance would need a rework too. I just like the concept of a Targeting Ocular Implant and would like to see that implemented in a way that doesn’t just work for a few seconds.

Last Stand: When stamina depletes stamina spenders cost zero stamina for 5s. 60s CD.

Specialist: weapon specials +50% activate-deactivate speed, duration and damage.

Snipers Suppression: On suppressing enemies they are stunned for 1s before reacting to suppression, this effect does not add to suppression duration.

As Enclave already said, Longshot works like the exact opposite of zealots Anoint in blood, so instead of being incredible (doing more damage the closer the enemy is starting at 12~15m) you instead only START getting ranged damage at 12m, going up from there (so at 12m it’s like 0.6% damage). This makes the talent basically worthless 99% of the time, and would be nice if it just worked reverse of Anoint in Blood (so at 12m you get the full benefit and it stacks up to there, instead of stacking FROM there to 25m like you’re somehow going to be doing pot shots from that distance more than 2-3 times a match). I only ever take it to get to Exhilerating Takedown on a couple builds that need that level of toughness regen, otherwise I basically always ignore it.

Beyond that, you hit a lot of the main one’s I’d bring up. Get Back in the Fight is a pretty good one just for being able to hold block after toughness break, push, and then run away fast, but a lot of the time you get nuked with like 15 toughness still on you and go down before it drops, so it would be nice if this proc’d at say, 40% toughness or something since it doesn’t give you toughness on proc either (and has an inherent cooldown, so wouldn’t be broken/exploitable still).

Ability Modifiers can be pretty dang good with Shout (obviously), and Close Quarter’s Killzone is honestly fantastic given it lasts just as long as your other Infiltrate buffs (and happens once you leave stealth), and gives the other two a melee damage bonus which is nice. I think the only ‘bad’ one is For the Emperor, but it’s meant to only be taken with Shout which it still works good with anyway, so I feel they are fine.

Smoke Grenade I’ve talked about to death/still think is good, but at this point just give it a stim level attack speed amp so people stop complaining about it. Pox clouds do it for enemies, might as well let smoke do it for allies (it helps it even more with it’s melee fantasy too regardless).

Exploit Weakness makes little sense to me, given Onslaught is right across from it, is just better as it doesn’t need a crit, and stacks higher/to the full 40%. I’d make that give the full 40% on crit and have it not stack/use the same effect as Onslaught all at once, so that it’s a proper ‘you choose one’. Since Veterans can’t hit 100% melee crit anyway, this feels more than appropriate and makes it an actual choice instead of forever ignored.

Duck and Dive can probably give like 5% movespeed either at all times (like Swift Certainty) or on proc, just never find myself taking it even though it’s meant to encourage run dodging.

And you hit all the ‘stupidly low team mate proc chance’ stuff, so yeah, I think that’s it at this point. (I feel Marksman’s Focus needs help too, but that’s been discussed to death already).

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Grenade should all be 3 base. (This because of the proc change)

Also all abiltys like survivalist and demo should be x amount per 60 sec or something like this, in high havoc games they are a must but in lower games they are not so much cause of less procs.

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Yeah it’s trying to encourage sniping but can also pair well with weapons that do far damage as well… some do the reverse and sorta just makes them better at distance. I was thinking a First Strike sort of replacement bonus to 1st hits similar to weapon blessings but less potent due to stacking with them, 10% damage to first hits.

The whole left tree is focused on range but I think it should be adjusted to a theme of slow, weakspot and accuracy and let right side dominate fast, rapid and crit. Too much range focus is just bad for hybrid style game.

It does have a “Thy Wrath be Swift” feel to it would make more sense for it to proc earlier.

I tend to find it more convenient with more attractive tax talents… do they stack though? Not sure how high brittleness can go but rending can get 100%-200% just with knife blessings.

Not sure how a survivalist would work with per 60s as an aura players would dip in and out at possibly proc times. If it became a Veteran passive maybe with unlimited range for team. Competitive Urge is worded to act like this though unsure.

The grenade proc is pretty amazing was thinking actually reducing grenade counts to 2 and every blitz having blitz talents to bump them up to 4 and perspective buffs from Grenade tinkerer.

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Brittleness always caps at 40% as it’s a team wide ‘rending’ debuff applied to that particular enemy. So Onslaught caps it out at 40%, while this does a unique buff right now of an additional 20%. It’s one of the two effects in the game that does this now (Penetrating Flames also does a unique 20% Brittlness that adds with everything else), so technically, you can apply up to 60% Brittle by yourself with this and onslaught.

But to do that, you’ve hit something 16 times and had to crit it twice, so it’s either a monstrosity or you’re using a 0% damage knife with just it’s base 15% crit chance. Onslaught also effects ranged hits, while this is only melee, so I think letting it just apply the ‘normal 40% Brittle all at once’ would be more effective and have people actually click it, instead of an extra 10-20% that only matters as an additive if your Ogryn pushed it 4 times and you crit it, without just instantly killing it.

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Sounds like the Weapon specialist style though, could crit twice with dagger then swap to a recon laz to apply rest very quickly i suppose… can usually take out a crusher with just knife tho so ya only bosses kind of a big talent sync situation.

It also seems to have massive overlap with “Determined” Suppression Immunity vs Get Back in the Fight 6s immunity seems silly on same side of tree… We’ll the sources vary seems like you can get suppressed before toughness break effecting aim accuracy and others say you won’t be suppressed until toughness break.

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Smoke is very good on havoc