That could also work, imo the proposal for survivalist isnt perfect in a longshot (pun intended) but currently many talents are reduced in power cause they are to good in havoc but become bad in lower games.
My main reason for saying atleast 3 grenades is krak, that small change would make it 2 times better. But your idea could also work.
Too Good? I really don’t want FS to balance around Havok, but if the grenade were tweaked would propose a reduced long duration 12s(18s talented) and add a short term group stealth 3s(4.5s talented)
As long as the grenade counts get normalized I think they will be balanced between shred / frak they just serve different purposes, where shred is more versatile.
Survivalist is a weird aura not typical flat stat, your right like CDRs giving % back based on killing elites it suffers the same problem. Perhaps less restorative more conservative of ammo like a lucky bullet 5%~ chance on shot to not consume ammo.
All the Vet talents that give bonuses if enemies are more than X distance away are genuinely useless… they rarely ever proc.
I’ll show you a magic trick. Check those talents again. I just changed them for you
Yah the changes to mid tier on “distance from” to “on not getting hit” was a nice touch on FSs part otherwise they would be issues and now reward good play.
Shows how long it’s been since I even played a veteran lol
I take Longshot on every build and its noticeable when I don’t have it. Plus I play aim weapons so headshots so its a no brainer to take it for the extra damage combined with headshots. The damage starts scaling on anything outside 7M iirc, from my testing.
I run Keep Their Heads Down if I want a ‘fun’ Braced build and obviously on Autopistol/SMG where yoru gun is mostly an entry into melee and for hordes. The extra suppression is basically a stun and as I run Chainsword mostly whatever gets suppressed and is able to be single targetted is dead.
Its not about Talents stats, its about how you utilize them aka player skill.
Now, whether they are placed correctly or the tree needs an entire rework and their place in them, thats a very indepth topic for me, so I couldnt say. I find the Vet tree works perfectly well, and is very restrictive.
I dont play stealth anymore because Havoc people cry when no Ammo aura, but stealth Vet with revive talent and curious means you have to be kinda bad to NOT get any revive in the game as long as you have CD’s. Even with them, with the smallest investment into stamina you can get most revives unless an overhead is incoming or 50 billions instakill ranged.
People don’t realise the value and potential, therefore, the talents arent worth as much despite them being utterly pivotal. Muh Ammo Aura.
Makes me wish there were more visuals cues than trying to monitor buff durations… thinking mostly in regards of tdr procs like vet revive talent… prob a mod for that.
It’s not really about strength, it’s just fun to play something unique for once. People say revive stat is useless on curio, but 2 seconds is actually a huge difference between reviving someone before Trapper shoots their net, or before most bosses reset their attack patterns and deplete all of your stamina/toughness, preventing the revive.
It’s just impossible to test in Psykhanium, you need actual game experience to notice the difference in all the clutch moments. I’ve had games where I revived 2-3 people by myself almost in a single duration of stealth, thanks to this synergy.
Although with game growing old, less and less people need babysitting, so lately whenever I played Stealth Vet I could go entire games without reviving anyone, because everyone played well.
But I don’t play Stealth in Havoc for different reasons.
Its would be nice if the social meta was at a point you could say x to your team in the draft lobby before a match and they had the skill to acknowlwdge ie I am revive build and theyd know.
Its not about visual cues or buff timers, this isnt 15years ago MMO-land. But then, like now, skill is stil lthe same. If you rely on mods, you wont develope the necessary skill. Its a simple fact noone wants to hear and back in the day 9ahem…) I modded the crap out of certain pvp / rvr MMO’s for this.
You really dont need a Mod to tell your team you revive fast with a dmg reduction for 5s, you can just do it. And they should likewise, if in a magic world where we acknowledged our teammates, attempt to go down not 50 miles away. But hey, if they do, you just pop your buffs and simply res them. They’ll probably be unable to get themselves out of the situation (Pickaxe/HStubber Ogryns I’m looking at you) because they overextended both in terms of the team and their ability, but heyho, thats modern Darktide. If you point it out you’ll be witchhunted and crucified, trust me again . . .
The only Mod that would even be remotely useful here is the 5s of 33% DR the vet gives the player. Even if they are aware of it, its entirely player dependent how they use it. If they are a godo player, they wont need mods as it’ll be a natural multiplier. If they need mods, then it might help but again, it simply depends on the player/players and their interaction and synergy.
This last part is almost entirely the skil lof DT for me. Dodging timimgs and clicking PVE heads (Im a Vet…) isn’t too difficult or stimulating, even a clutch, its a set of preprogrammed actions, but working with and positively exploiting / magnifying them, that when in cnjunction with 2-3 other good players, is magic.
As mentioned, sorry to derail and not aimed at you but I seriously lament the super high skil lceiling of DT’s current ‘Pick Ogryn, Take pickaxe, play untilyou die and anyone else thats says anything outside this is categorically wrong and should be FLAMED’ meta.
Is it, is it really?
It literally does nothing within 12 meters and has to be 25 and more meters to get the 20% damage boost most things damage break points are hardly even effected by this the only thing it’s really gonna help with are snipers which are already very easy to kill and the odd maps that have shooters and gunners on long sight lines also very easy to kill. So what is it actually improving for you veteran already has a bunch of other do more damage perks that don’t have such a limited requirement behind it that isn’t behind the extremely limited amount of enemies that are 25 meters and more in a gane where 90% of enemies are spawning within 10 and immediately sprinting towards you.
Yeh, I use lasguns. Its noticeable on Lasguns which have a built in Longshot as well.
Not on Lasguns, its free dmg outside of 15m (not 25m, please be accurate). Its up to the player if they want to kil lthings at this range quicker or not. All I can say, and I dont mean this to offend, i doubt it will, is that you do not consider your teams amalgamated health bar and seek to kill ranged threats to them quicker, as a priority, if theres soemrhing near enough you can smack. Surprising. So, Longshot does this, if you prioritise this as a playstyle, which I do, its a useful talent.
Plus its on its way to Exhilirating Takedown, which is the only reason I pick Longshot. Whether Stub weaponry, Lasgun, Helbore, or much more obviously Recon, this talent, therefore both these talents, are very useful to me. I shouldn’t have to explain why, surely?
I don’t understand why you are singling out the talent, noone is dumb enough to ONLY pick Longshot if they play Havoc. Theyd be pathning to reloadspeed and/or hs toughness regen. This tunnel vision thinknig is, in my opinion, incredibly [REDACTED].
I don’t kill whats in front of me when theres ranged and specials to kill. I dodge them to get Reciprocity stacks. Which multiplies the damage of Longshot. As does Precision Strikes and 10% Elite damage and every other damage multiplier that you mentioned.
So, as I said, if you built utilizes 'damage stacking (lol) and your playstyle utilizes this and encompasses it, its a useful talent on the way to 2 build-defining talents. I iamgine Boltguns and Plasmaguns would benefit a wee bit from 30% reload speed, likewise Recons and Lasguns benefit from sustain on HeadShot.
If you prioritise smacking the melee in front as opposed to the ranged and specials chipping your team, you may still be building Reciprocity stacks for t3h l33t d4m4g3 with whatever your hitting, but unless theres specials onthe board youre not actively reducing your VoC teamshield. I am.
Its a playstyle choice you can choose to utilize or not. And it all has a place. I am confident given how we’ve both outlned our plaustyles you’ll have more damage than me, and I’ll have given more shields to our respective teams. Both have their palce, both are viable, I’m saying Longshot is useful, because I utilize it well, you are saying its not, because you chosoe not to.
The difference is that you refuse to acknowledge what I’m saying on how its not to be picked for what it does, but how it interacts with the ret of a build and playstyle (Increasing all damage from all sources, when Longshot is active, thus buying the vet more time to move onto the next target, or as you say, pull out the melee and get whacking.
Could it be buffed. Sure.
I also never leave home without Get Back in the Fight, and can tank Daemonhosts with it reliably. I am also never cc’d and ‘popped’ when my toughness breaks, because my playstyle is adapted to that. My build has a lot of stamina, recovering, and efficiency. Mostly I play suboptimal buidls because I honestly don’t need or want to play a Meta Botlgun because I dont like it, but I enjoy Recon.
I’ve noticed noone here has mentioned Charismatic. I never leave home without it if I can, Im guessing you are all the same and acknowledge its not a weak talent? Or, have forgotten about it?
Dude like 5% extra damage at 15 meters is literally nothing
Im loving you telling me how I play. Well, on Havoc40s I can definitely feel it when I use the builds I’ve been playing for a very long time. Every shot counts and picking off ranged with a single shot is really useful. Maybe not to you and yoru team, but when I play I prioritise ranged and Specials where I can.
You can disagree with me, but you’re not convincing me.
Can I ask, do you play Lasgun/Recon?
I main recon las. I barely notice the difference I’d rather reload and swap weapons faster in a game where horde in in your face 24/7. Rather than a slither of extra damage in extreme specific scenarios
I’m not telling you how you play I’m saying how the game literally plays. The game throws high threat elites constantly in your face especially n havoc 40.
We have two havoc viable ranged weapons that will get you an invite. Grenade fuse durations have been stupid for 6 months. Rumbler makes krak look like a wish.com toy. The vet innate talent is trash. Peek needs replaced with suppression immunity. Half our build screens “team support” while the other half of our tree screws us if we don’t make the kill shot.
If you aren’t pathing through shredder, survivalist, shout, and born leader best of luck with an invitation. If you do chose your best range and melee weapons, you catch flack from other classes in h40… that are running their best ranged and melee weapons. Somewhere along the way dumping on vet players became cool while running around with god mode zealots. Playing plasma is evil… even if it puts out similar or less damage than rumbler and purge. Okay, think I’m done venting. I don’t know what the vet’s identity is at the moment and I don’t have much faith that the devs do either.
So, you dnt take Exhilirating Takedown? Im not sure youre getting what Im saying in that it is part of a larger kit and currently, it works quite well pathing that side of the tree, amping damage. What are your suggestions for it?
every perk that makes you play mini games is a bad perk in a game when you are discouraged to stand still or not pay attention for more than a second
if your toughness go down you go survival mode, every single talent that would give you toughness back when you play a minigame won’t yeld you any value when you need it most
even confirmed kill is C tier after the nerf in that scenario, your best bet is to hold your block until you get your voice of ploughing command back
My builds are always block builds because I have a brain lol. With curios, get back inthe fight, on weapon etc. Its how I tank bosses easily. Thansk for stating it thought, I hope it influences others to get better. My build has DoT on both weapons so I can also do damage to them while juking, but as is the typical pain in DT, adds can mess this up. Luckily its actually a class based game and some players DO have brains and take on chaff clearing as a role, as a single Pox that forces your Vet or Psyker to melee is a LOT of team dps lost.
What do you mean by mini game? Killing ranged for your allies ? Its a genuine question, I really don’t get it or how its relevant. I have no diea what standing still has to do with anything, vet gets Reciprocity so hes always moving/dodging.
I dont think you guys are getting that people liketo make builds that work in ways you maybe arent familiar with. Im guessing you are the types berating anyone not with a meta buld regardless of if they are actually useful or just a resbot statpad.
ET + Born Leader is enough toughness to push people back into shield. Thisis pretty big in Darktide as shields, especially in higher levels, are vey important. You don’t lose anything or adjust your gameplay to do this, because a Recon is lclick heads same as most Vet weaps. But if you don’t have the capacity you cant do it at all. Just because players can’t block pox, and can’t focus on things and wander out of coherency doesnt make it ‘bad’.
Reload speed. Its also a nice QoL but qol is just that. I personally don’t need reload speed as a QoL because I know how to push and block but recognise its a bit more dps over the span of 2 Recon magazines so around 15 seconds and helps out when you really need to get rid of a bomber/sniper etc.
Im not sure why this is being met with so much resistance? It doesnt amtter if you have a meta build because the player skill in public games is so variable more often than not they can’t leverage the builds you bring, because they have no awareness and seem to enjoy wiping. I am certain of that