Myeah hence why I said I don’t really know if I’m fan of the changes. Sure the double dot on explosion was absolutely stupid amounts of damage but the way they are changing it is makes it literal longbow that is either strictly worse or better.
At least the change will get rid the weapon from top of the food chain so there is that. Unless ofc they somehow mess the finesse numbers or something else.
Yea, my mistake. That was supposed to be Cleave.
As for the kinetic force thingy: Without going to deep into physics (as it is a game anyways). What you have to consider is zone of impact and if the full impulse will be translated to the hitted object. Realistically the larger your projectile the more likely it is to get stuck because of friction and because it has to penetrate more flesh. The Javelin therefore should get stuck easier and translate the full impulse on the enemy. Smaller projectiles which have a low area of impact only lose the energy to tore through the flesh there. As long as they don’t hit a bone, they will keep large parts of their kinetic energy while hitting other targets beyond. But again, this is a game, it doesn’t have to follow physical laws. Although I would like to keep at least the relations like larger projectile more likely to stuck = less cleave.
Sure, we always had ranged spam. Especially on ranged careers this is a thing. On other careers though it either needs headshots or reliable crits. And the headshots slow you down. The Javelins don’t because you don’t need to headshot, neither to kill as Javelin have the highest(?) bodyshot damage (worst case throw a second Javelin) nor to keep ammo (because infinite). And as said, reload is laughable low and has no slowdown. My personal experience is that Javelin gets spammed far more than her other weapons outside of Waystalker (and even for her it is only on Swiftbow and Hagbane). Most Longbow Waystalkers in public games spam less when they use a longbow because the headshotting slows them down.
Fine, I can compromise. Let all her damage related stats as they are. Honestly, I can live with that. On the flip side, double the reload time, make Javelin not interact with ammo recovery traits and slow her down to 10 % movement speed or less when reloading. This way people still have a powerful tool in most situations but will think twice if it was really necessary to throw that Javelin at this slaverat standing there in the corner.
They’re nerfing her to make playing with bots unbearable, I know it.
These changes are more of a rework and seem to change their role within the team, not so much focused on “muh balance” for long-time players. In the case of SotT a few of the changes sound like they might fix the insta-kill ultimate and 10 seconds of mayhem. It’ll be difficult to tell how the balance will shift, but shade’s higher backstab damage with all stealth attacks being crits could make her more powerful than before and at the same time possibly raise the skill ceiling. This could make shade the new go-to meta for people who just want to deal damage and get kills.
Fair enough, although i do still think that it´s just a worse longbow without a significantly higher (comparatively) cleave in play.
I honestly do not agree, my experience is that if i do not run conservative shooter and make the effort to headshot then i will constantly be stuck reloading without actually killing all that much. And the reload is slow enough that by the time i have reloaded 4 spears then most enemies in sight will either be dead or ontop of me.
Sure i can mow down konga lines but that´s really not impressive, albeit satisfying.
This is too much, the weapon would be practically useless in cata since the need to headshot to avoid constant lengthy reloads would be too high. By then its just a worse longbow again.
No, the cleave has to mostly stay (can probably eat a minor to medium nerf and still be fine) and the reload speed/ammo sustain cant be nerfed either. However the idea to increase the movement slowdown can be tinkered with, as can a need for headshots.
I do agree that the SoT changes seem like they do a fairly good job of fixing her worst problems, i do have some qualms about it but its better than before still.
However as for shade, i do wana point out that presently cloak of mist is 100% crit chance and a backstab crit instakill anything smaller than a Chaos warrior. And also triggers vanish which makes her invisible.
This happy little combo is way more power than the new edition where parry-dodge lets you get a single certain crit+vanish proc before moving on, although, this new deal does raise her baseline power a fair bit against elites.
Still better than the present i´d say, given it trivializes high pressure more.
To be honest, I really do not care about Javelin users shooting every unaggro’d roamer. That’s a completely inconsequential thing. Those were never a threath. That has zero effect on the succes chances of a run. If that’s the problem people have with javelin users and if that’s why people want them to get nerfed I totally disagree.
In every situation where there is actual pressure and danger, Javelins are basically just an inferior Longbow that has better cleave / stagger, monster damage, and higher friendly fire. Its handling is worse. It can actually run out of ammo and only has a few shots before that happens. I don’t really find them problematic at all, from the viewpoint of somebody who practically never plays Elf themselves (and plays high difficulties). They don’t trivialize proper fights at all, and in any case not even nearly as much as the Moonfire does. I don’t really feel they need to be nerfed.
What you also shouldn’t forget, is that it’ll be really easy to (accidentally) nerf them to oblivion. To illustrate my point: Throwing Axes are just Javelins with worse handling, and those are widely regarded as a meme weapon that’s not even worth trading a second melee weapon for.
Now, the Moonbow definitely needed some nerfs, because it was outperforming everything by a wide margin. I personally would have went a different direction than FS did, because what they did now is essentially making it different skinned Longbow. It competes directly for its niche, and doesn’t do much the Longbow can’t. I’d have tried to give it a different niche; something like the elven version of a Handgun: Keep the ridiculous damage (even on bodyshot), but increase the heat cost and nerf the recharge so that you need to be more tactical with your shots or risk running out under pressure when you actually need it. But in any case, I think not having the Moonbow-elf trivializing stuff anymore would be a good thing.
I agree in that one minor change might be enough to reign in Javelins just enough.
I personally think the stagger/cleave just needs a tweak. Hand thrown Javelins stagger more than a handgun, and cleave too far into a horde.
I hope they at leat lower the power consumption of Moonbow since it no longer deals AoE damage, meaning you will have to shoot more often.
I’m kinda surprised I haven’t seen anyone comment on the fact that hagbane is getting straight buffed. More damage on headshot and crits? I guess I’ll wait to see how big the increase is, but if it becomes possible to one shot specials without bloodshot that’s gonna be a pretty big buff. Regardless its Monster damage is gonna be even better now. At least it doesn’t affect its main use of stagger locking groups and burning down crowds much (random crits will still make it a bit better at that).
So yeah I really dunno about buffing Hagbane, Hagstalker is an OP combo from before the likes of Sister and Moonbow and it’s still pretty oppressive in the face of those, especially with the nerfs. I predict a lot of hagstalkers after this patch.
Maybe the idea is the make hagbane a more attractive choice on non-waystalker careers. The low-ish single target damage per shot compared to the low ammo pool has always been an issue if you want to use the weapon for specials on Handmaiden and post-Bloodfletcher nerf Shade.
Though given the constant whinging from certain sectors of the V2 community about the difficulty of hitting ranged headshots… I doubt it’ll have that effect in practice.
Yeah it’s a tricky balancing act, but TBH I’d rather see hagbane as a WS only weapon than see it super overtuned on WS just to accommodate other classes.
Probably because we still don’t have any concrete numbers. Its hard to judge something like that when the change could literally be meme or godlike.
But I do agree that it could be potentially a really dangerous buff if the numbers allow for new breakpoints. Boss damage especially could get even more out of hand.
Well first impression and messing with some mods it probably surprises no one but, moonfire is pretty shaite feeling now. Can’t even 1 shot stormvermin with headshot by just throwing mods into the bow itself. Body 1 shot breakpoints seem even worse so we literally back to using longbow or javelin for those.
was obviously not surprising after these mimimi threads^^.
Well it needed a nerf, however no one asked fatshark to make it a longbow instead.
Hm, for those already playing the update (still have six hours before I can check myself): Have they adapted the SotT Okri’s challenges? Thinking about the one where you have to kill an assassin mid-jumping. This should be impossible now, right?
Only a minor issue but would be interesting to know.
Yea, that’s the one. Interesting, so can Assassins die by jumping against the wall or is this unachievable now?
a weaker longbow 
