Big balance feedback (subjective lvl MAX)


So i went and tested some of the changes that came with the big patch, just to make sure i had some idea of what i was looking at beyond words on a page somewhere. Mind you i didnt test much.

  • Pyromancer

Keeping it short, i like the changes&buffs, they seem to do the job of solidifying her position as the most specialized in range of the mage-careers.

  • Battlewizard

Nerfs are good, long overdue…might not even be enough?

  • Engineer

Mixed feelings, i am apprehensive about the bomb build that is basically what RV can do, but better, and i fear it might just make hordes nearly moot even without the minigun in use. May be too much bomb power.

Sidenote, Combined arms shoulda been the talent on that row to go <.<

The changes to the anti armor cannon are…interesting, least used option by far i believe but combined with piercing shots it might overpeform? However the changes to the minigun recharge and whatnot were very pleasant and i am thankful for them, and writing of which, the level 20 row. I believe this row is great in the sense that i do not find any option bad. Full head of steam might need a duration boost to be a little more even with the other two though.

  • Edit - Engineer

Holy cow the talent that removes FF damage on his explosions works on trollhammer and its intended for now, i cant see how this wont backfire at all. What was that nonsense about wanting to tone down monsters imploding?

  • Warrior Priest

Not gona lie, i am unsure about this one, a more controllable fury activation sounds nice but i fear this is also powercreeping him a whole damn lot. A good warrior priest was already a steamtank driven by faith.

And Prayer of Vengence…more on this further down :neutral_face:

  • Bounty Hunter

I can understand wanting to tone down monster damage, i do, but, please do give him something else? Griffonfeet might be OP but that doesnt mean the career itself should be left in a sorry state.

  • Slayer

Nice, but do please fix the Chaos wastes bug, its entirely too silly.

  • Grail Knight

Doesnt seem too major to me, small toning down…but i am unsure if it was really warranted? If reducing monster killing power was the idea, why cut down on his general power and a bit of ability cooldown rather than ability damage? Conc pot double stab still gets the job done but now he is a little weaker in general instead.

  • Weapon changes

Non elf swords & Greatswords
Good overall? I still want to hope for better/more fun movesets but i guess some small buffs are not bad either.

Keri Javelins
Weapon is kinda terrible on cata now, takes EP + 40% power vs skaven + armor to headshot kill a stormvermin and the cleave is just gone. Crappy Longbow alt is real. Worse than moonbow too?

“Edit nr 3, Javelins.”

Alright have been playing Engineer&Pyromancer and saw several elves trying to use Javs, none whom i saw stick around for several maps actually kept the javelins and instead, swapped to Moonfire, Longbow and in a SoT case, the Deepwood staff. I asked and the answer was the same, weapon feels awful to use.

Another solution for this is needed unless we are happy to just leave it for dead.

Keri 1handed axe
The changes do not seem to fix any of the issue´s the weapon has and i find the new moveset to be much worse than the last, feels much less fluid : (

  • Boss killer changes and whatnot

So alright, the goal for changing GK, BH, elf daggers and such was apparently to tone down bosses imploding. Except, i do not think these changes actually accomplish this at all? Shade, bounty and BH will still nuke them just fine with a conc pot in hand and a weapon that is somewhat suitable for it.

The recently added “somewhat balanced - Fatshark” Necromancer can still melt bosses in a very unbalanced way no problem, Pyro was significantly buffed and is probably better at it, Engi has been buffed and is better at it. Ranger veteran MWP / dwarf trollhammers havent been touched. Warrior priest gained prayer of Vengence…which is 25% extra power vs monsters for each teammate, 100% extra for the team in a sense.

How does all this fit into the agenda again? It accomplishes little, too little, and in the wrong places too. If you want Shade/BH, GK to do less, nerf their ability monster damage, want bosses not to melt? Ask Sienna nicely and sabotage her staves output a bit. Pour some water into the waystalkers hagbane quiver.

And why give engi a free pass on firing artillery (trollhammer) on any monster he sees without any fear of hitting teammates? Its like taking 0.5 steps forward on helping monsters and 3 steps backwards.


oh and i forget but for the love of Santa, but the Sharks are really doing a repeat of this whole thing with dropping a very big and very poorly tested patch then going on Christmas/Summer vacation so we players can only stew in frustration in the meanwhile?


Curious about this one. I mean you write that it is similar the same as RV and that is correct. So, I ask why you fear for this one makes hordes moot when RV can do the same and we have Trollhammer Torpedo which also does the same just even better. If you fear it is to much bomb power here then so it is for the other cases.

'Cause Engi can carry 3 bombs and have the perk for both effects of any bomb, and he can carry the trollhammer. A whole lot of boom power. RV gets one free cast, he can then use the bomb he carries at the expense of losing it all until he gets another bomb which for all intents and purposes might not happen. Engi can now generate them outa sticks and stones as he goes.

Its not just one step above RV that, minus the lower safety from lacking invisibility. But who needs safety when you are immune to and unable to cause FF damage and can drop explosive everywhere?

Good catch! I forgot about this for a moment after seeing two different posts stating that this perk also does, or does not, apply to the trollhammer.

Let’s not forget no friendly fire damage. That’s actually pretty huge when you want to power pot bomb a patrol.


I did a quickplay mission with Engineer using overclock, bombardier, and a bomb every 80 seconds, solo’d a monster, and got 40k damage. While everyone else’s boss damage has been nerfed, Engineer can slam them.

That bomb every 80 seconds is insanely good. At the beginning can hand out 1 or 2 of the 3 to teammates and every time you hit 3 you just use it or share it. If I’m kiting, I just keep kiting till I get my 80 second bomb.



Starting with Siena, I believe she is much better and more versatile, but some level 10 talents could improve and also the level 30 talents especially, as the new talent is overlapping the other two, I believe that at level 30 the talent that restores critical overload could restore a part of the ultimate if it does not cause a critical, the part that would be restored would be equal to Siena’s current critical chance. Example: Siena released the flaming head and did not cause a critical, a part of the ultimate will be reset equal to Siena’s total critical chance at the time of the ult 5%(accessory)+10%(weapons)+10% (talent level 10) + 20% (4 stocks of Siena passive) = 45% of ultimate back.
This would take away the sadness of unleashing the ultimate with almost full critical chance and getting the cooldown back.

Honestly, I didn’t like the changes to the WP, I always had an easy time stocking up (mainly due to the game modes I play where a lot of enemies come nonstop) the passive in matches, but I understand that even in the cataclysm, sometimes the timing was a little weird. in which the passive was stocked, and fatshark wanted to give the player a little more freedom to choose when to activate the passive and not depend on “finishing a boss” or clearing an entire horde…
:white_circle: Now I’m going to comment on why I got the weird and competitive changes in WP, I’m main victor, so I wanted to give my point of view on how WP should be working and because he is clumsy. :white_circle:
The idea of WP is to be a DPS support, with power spikes (which would be passive).
So the first problem we had in WP is that he seemed like an incomplete character (similar to bardin OE),
WP had a talent pipeline that had a synergy with other talent pipelines such as:

“Sigmar’s Executioner” along with the talent “Prayer of Vengeance”, plus the talent “Empowered Smite” and “United in Prayer” (dps).
With these talents you could make a powerful dps build “focused” on criticals.

“Unstoppable Force” along with the talent “Divine Excoriation”, “Prayer of Might” and “The Comet’s Gift” (to lift, heal, and prevent damage to allies) or “Unyielding Blessing” (to save allies who are trapped) .
This sequence of talents was already used more for controlling hordes and being more attentive to supporting allies, both with divine excoriation and with the shield.

In addition to these two, there were a few others to heal allies, cause damage without being critical…
But what was the defect of all the builds? The passive…
The dps one didn’t have much dps because the passive never stocked up at the right time, the support with divine excoriation wasn’t always ready when we needed it…
So fatshark made some changes…

Added advantages of gaining fury by taking damage, killing enemies for 2% per kill and releasing the ultimate recovering 60% of fury.
Looking at it for a quick moment, it looks good, but it’s not as cool as it seems…
Let’s see the changes:
the first talent at level 20, if I don’t take damage the only advantage it has is gaining a shield during suitable rage… Was this necessary? Is this what WP needed?
The second talent at level 20 now recovers 60% of fury with the ultimate, this is a big problem, as using the situational ultimate just to keep charging up fury doesn’t seem interesting at all. Just imagine, I would like to activate fury to cause more damage, but now I can no longer save my friends because I have already spent my ultimate in a completely random way, this takes away the entire essence of WP’s ultimate and becomes just a “little book of green circles”
And the third level 20 talent was the only one that was interesting, and this way of stocking the passive was very interesting. This one was good.

However, the problems don’t stop there, with the removal of the divine excoriation from level 20, what will be the effective and fun use of the “Unstoppable Force” talent? What will I get 50% push reduction for? Just to give a little push here and there? This makes no sense, before this talent was very useful because if you hit 3 enemies, you would spam the divine excoriation, knocking down all enemies and opening up space for allies depending on the location.

And the Sigmar’s Executioner talent, what talent will I match it with? Before I had critical chance and a critical damage bonus, now I just have a solitary perk.

The power against monster enemies is ridiculously strong, I played with my friends and they annihilated the Boss.

We cannot forget Victor’s troll power, gaining fury and shield with healing just for taking damage in the middle of the patrol.

I don’t think it was that good, but now it’s clumsy.

What would be needed for the Victor saltzpyre warrior Priest was:

The WP would gain a relic (similar to the darktide zealot) that he could use every 1 min, this relic he would take in his hand and receive a sigmar blessing, gaining 50% fury. He would be equipped with bombs.

Empowered Smite would go back to how it was, it wouldn’t even gain a rage when using the ultimate but it wouldn’t have the 1 second delay to deal damage with the rage.

The “Divine Excoriation” talent merges with the “Unstoppable Force” talent. This would make “both” more interesting and viable.

The new Blazing Bright talent is being reworked and has another functionality, one idea is: reducing fury damage from 20% to 6% but the talent stocks 75% faster, and in addition to deaths, also with hits from Victor. In addition to increasing the stunning power of the push (also of the divine excoriation which would now be a level 10 talent along with the Unstoppable Force)
"Basically this talent would be useful to buff level 10 and stun during the fury, as she would thrust several times.

HP: from 150 to 125

The Prayer of Vengeance talent would give allies 10% power against monsters and 20% critical power.

In the end, these changes would be super useful, such as: holy fury more often without the need to spend ult to gain fury, diverse builds, balanced and versatile

@Ensrick @Frostysir At the end I explain the necessary changes and why they are made… what do you think?

Needed or not, this does make it efficient to trade hits with the horde to easily activate fury before getting serious and refilling THP while empowered. Does achive the goal of more reliable fury but …powercreep.

This is one one way to look at it, on the other, activating the shield and running face-first into the armored horde that is coming, getting fury up and singlehandedly carrying the frontline is undeniably a move that does benefit the team too.

Hard not to do that as long as you function as a frontliner, no matter how´.

This was an interesting application that flew right over my head to be honest, i was content with a heal/support/stagger build and never thought much about anything after that.

The crit chance bonus is Sigmar´s executioner, all you lost is the crit power which…to be honest is almost useless in this game. Exception being very big hits like Grail Knight double stab or Shade Backstab.

Hard to say if that´s because of the talents or because Fatshark kinda didnt really do anything to actually nerf monster killing. Despite claiming it as their goal for a lot of deals. And this patch bought a lot of powercreep, Prayer of Vegence dumping harder on monsters included.

As for your proposed changes, i cant say i know. Do people not find the Darktide Relic clunky to use? And why not just replace “Prayer of Vengence” with old Divine Excoriation to restore that build as an option that doesnt rely on shield spam? Especially since crit power didnt really do anything for him anyway?

Not needed, he is to be durable AF.

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This relic wouldn’t work like the Zealot from Darktide, I cited it as a visual example, he would pick up the relic and in 1 second he would gain 50% to 60% of his fury. It would be a quick use, you wouldn’t have to hold the relic for long, although this supposed relic could have some function during the rage, such as increasing critical power, providing some mitigation… I don’t know.

Strengthened Strike (level 20) could stack faster with critical hits, because it could already synergize with the level 10 critical talent.

should be enough feedback for wp

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There is more to the changes than one bugged talent, oi x_x

Is it bugged though? Fatshark has been quiet if they interaction is intentional or not. Considering they have been warned on this before the patch went live and they still did it, chances are it is not bugged.

if its not bugged it is stupidly op

It wouldn’t be the first time intentional design being broken op.

It wouldn’t currently be the only thing being broken op.

Fatshark has drilled the powercreep up again this patch. And people are still whining about an inconsequential javelin nerf.

I don’t even understand powergamers argument. It is a pve game. It doesn’t need balance. Everyone should feel powerful.

Why do exist difficulties again in pve games?

so you want more broken op things in pve games?

I dont if a broken op career is doing all the work it turns boring for everyone else. And i want challenge in a pve game and push myself further and dont want to feel op and powerful.

I think you meant to post here maybe?

Here I was enjoying reading the discussion of @Danielgafforio’s warrior priest talent ideas and it seems it’s been derailed and turned into another circlejerk about the infamous warrior priest bug. I’m certain they’ll hotfix it, because it is so clearly not intended; I don’t see the need to discuss it further. No career can self-revive, it’s a co-op game; not even Necromancer’s skeletons hang around or help when she is down.

i doubt it will get fixed, somehow i have the bad feeling it was intended, but we will see.