Good Work Fatshark

Kudos to you Fatshark for incorporating some of my recent, and quite brilliant, suggestions.

Your fix to Ascension Riser 31 environment issues, and buffs to the Recon Lasgun are most welcome - and came much faster than I anticipated. Excellent work.

Now on to da Eviscerator eh boyz?

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Definitely glad to see fixes and some rebalance stuff, but man I want there to be more meat when it comes to upcoming classes and addressing the crafting system )=

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We’ve been asking for the recon dmg increase since pre launch as well as the ogryn shield.
I really wouldn’t call 7 months to slightly increase the dmg numbers of two weapons… Fast…

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I am glad that they finally increased the damages of the revolver.
Have to test if it is good now… at least I have 2 really good revolvers to test it with my zealot and on my veteran

I wait now a total rework about these blessings, that were all based on same system:

  • devastating strike: we have 4 tiers, but they all have the same effect (yea that was an incredible bad nerf idea from FS)
  • shock and awe: same problem + like it is designed, this blessing never occurs (or by accident)
  • brutal momentum: several think it is too powerful. Myself, I am not sure, but I think that all the blessings I quote here should use a similar activation system and so BM should be part of this rework
  • deathblow: part of this sort of blessings… problem of deathblow is that it is not really useful on the HS

I would want that all of them have increased effect between T1 to T4 and be useful… as, by example, shock & awe that needs a serious rework or devastating strike.

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I like deathblow on HS, I use it instead of ā€œrampageā€ to go with ā€œheadtakerā€: it’s better against mixed hordes thanks to the ā€œignore hit massā€ effect you can go through maulers crushers bullwarks etc all at once

It’s not good work. These small tweaks to the weapons are simple changing of values in a spreadsheet levels of effort. These are the sorts of changes that should be able to rapidly happen in an afternoon, and not something that takes months upon months to happen.

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This is how you balance things…

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Not really, no. The actions may be correct but the rate that they’re making changes is woefully inadequate. There isn’t a single reason why they couldn’t push out balance changes with a faster tempo. Push out some buffs, and roll them back a bit with some nerfs if they went too far. Small changes like these could easily be rolled out weekly or bi-weekly.

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Making changes to a spreadsheet is easy.
Making changes to a spreadsheet without breaking the game is less easy.

I’m with you on the call for more frequent balancing, but they’re often just one or two numbers away from the community exploding into ā€œX is OPā€ and ā€œMy wife left me and I got fired from my job because you ruined my favourite weaponā€.

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The only ā€œproblemā€ with faster balance changes is fatshark still hasn’t completely scrapped the worst crafting/gear progression system in the history of gaming. I’ve played korean MMOs with systems that could outright destroy items where it was easier to get the desired end-item without bricking. As a result the community hates any sort of nerf. But nerfs are good and healthy for games like wildfires for forests. A priority is just breaking the locks to cut out the rot.

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Kinda have to agree on this, even if I’m not personally overly impacted.

Many players spend their time levelling one character’s gear. It takes a long time to get something top end. Said player slots two blessings that they’re happy with, then the next week one (or both) halves of that gets nuked.

Sure it might have been warranted, but that player is then stuck with the impact of that … or has to grind out another 25-50 hours to get another opportunity with a different set of blessings.

For good or bad, blessings are what makes a weapon. There’s too much power tied up in them, and therefore small changes have big effects. At least I think so.

I’d be for faster changes - heaven knows a lot needs to change - but you’ve got to let players adjust their gear when you make a change. e.g. a free double blessing unlock on everyone’s weapons whenever you change a skill :wink:

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At the rate they’re going we might have decent weapon/blessing balance in, oh, maybe 10 years? In the interim people are getting increasingly attached to particularly overpowered/broken setups (Oh lordy, when pinning fire/slaughterer/brutal momentum gets nerfed… Unless it doesn’t, in which case what.) and it’s just going to increase the fallout when they do nerf it.

Wouldn’t surprise me if certain blessings were intentionally overpowered/rare to encourage the chasing of particular things and increase ā€˜engagement.’ (And sadly it seems to work on some people based on replies in the patch thread. Which is… very depressing)

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You should take in consideration that, when a lot of players says a blessing is too strong, you can see a weapon nerfed.
In fact, this is obvious that crucian roulette was a bug… Players have chosen to ignore this fact and started to chase weapons with this blessing… who is at fault here? FS for fixing something that is obviously a bug? When they fixed it, people complained (same for flamer, PS etc.)
Fact is, a balance fix should let your weapon useful after it, less powerful but still effective (crucian roulette is still good, I use it, flamer is strong and PS is still OP when you use it with PC T4).

On this, I agree that a small chanbge is better than a biggest change but that could be unbalanced.

Also, my advice is to not bart all weapons that does not meet ā€œmetaā€ requirements. You should keep all weapons that look interesting to allow you to adapt quickly.

I do :slight_smile:
But I’m at almost 600 hours. Average Joe isn’t.

It’s good advice, I agree, but the average player out there can’t level up multiple versions of the same weapon. Average Joe might see Reddit posts saying how good X with Y+Z is and aim for that. Then get nerf batted for 6. They didn’t know it was a bug. And even if it was, is that Joe’s fault? I don’t think so. They’re playing the game as it is.

I fully agree. But I think you’d also agree that it’s disheartening if you’ve put a lot of time in to that, to then feel very ā€œaveragelyā€ powered again. It is needed, I’m with you, I can just see why non-die hards just go ā€œpahā€ and walk away given the effort/reward outcome of that. That IS FS’s fault for too slow/too late balancing.

Patch content
5 blessing tweaks [and not the most overtuned/ overused ones)
3 weapon balance tweaks
Crossplay

And now 2 week holidays.
See you in September boys. No Darktide this summer

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I know games with fewer devs, bigger communities, more content, that have quicker return on feedback.

Also: if you don’t want to break the game for ā€œeveryoneā€
You can create a Test Realm Server

Fatshark HAS done it in the past so no excuse there.

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On this I trully agree
FS should react faster

Have our expectations fallen so low that, that we are celebrating a normal and super overdue balancing/bug fix patch? Remember, this is likely the last of any fixes/content until the end of summer.

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Too much power is tied up with them. It’s ridiculous. Throw two random players into a piles of enemies with the same weapon but different random blessings. One’s weapon feels anemic, while the cuts through the enemy like a hot knife through butter. Why? Because one’s weapon gets something like a 75-100% power boost for doing what he was already doing anyway. It’s ludicrous and reeks of the person who made the blessings never actually playing the game or understanding what such a buff would make. It’s like in vermintide’s chaos wastes where you can get overpowered combinations like constant crit lighting, except it’s constantly on your gear. It straight up is unhealthy for balance for there to be such a huge disparity between someone who won the blessing lottery and someone who is using something more vanilla.

I honestly think that all of the ā€œyou get given huge power buffs as a reward for doing what you were going to do anywayā€ blessings are terrible design. It’s like having vermintide strength potions active all the time and I fundamentally don’t think such effects can be satisfactorily balanced and that the shortest path to balancing combat is to just outright delete them instead of trying to fix them. Slaughter, pinning fire, blaze away, headtaker, all of them. Just hit delete so that the game can start to heal.

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Yeppers. Discussions of Darktide’s balance are always fascinating to me because of how indepth one can go when discussing Darktide’s inherent design flaws - many things are wrong with it, so much so it’s entertaining to read. Anyways to get back on topic, I agree with you, I don’t understand why Fatshark created a system in which a weapon’s performance can be either completely invalidated or heavily skewed without any significant input from the user. This isn’t good because it goes against the ethos of 'tide; read: skill oriented gameplay with an emphasis on player freedom, experimentation, and an ability for players to engage in an eco-friendly game environment that isn’t hostile towards their enjoyment; these are the pillars that made Vermintide enjoyable, all of which are not present in Darktide. However, it needs to be stated, this was my experience from ā€œBetaā€. No idea how the game is these days.

Additionally, and this is my opinionated bias from thousands of hours of Vermintide 2, so make of it as you will but weapons shouldn’t really have that enormous of an impact on the experience besides facilitating the player to reach those break points that are required to react more easily to priority targets on higher difficulties since priority targets tend to have inflated Health Pools which can have an influence on how an encounter is played out. For instance, if you execute the gas rat before it can throw its gas 'nade then you would have prevented the party from being split during a horde rush. This type of power is fine to me as it isn’t essential as long as your party reacts to tags and is competent enough to not be annihilated from being forced to break formation.

Darktide on the other hand takes the power creep to a whole other level with its ludicrous effects (additionally some effects are absolutely required on certain weapons to even be effective); and since the silly effects are gated behind a gamble there’s no reference of which to draw from when making balance statements other than it’s a ridiculous system that shouldn’t exist.

What balance is there to achieve when your weapon can get bricked by the slight toss of a coin.

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