The closest thing that vermintide had to the blatantly overpowered blessings was swift slaying. SS was the default for many builds and was the go to “MOAR DAMAGE!!!” option, but it was truly only the slow weapons that really NEEDED SS. The fast weapons arguably didn’t benefit much, and there was still room to run defensive options like parry for perfect blocks or opportunistic to achieve stagger breakpoints like the coveted breakpoint to stagger plague monks. But something like slaughterer directly applying huge power boosts makes swift slaying look like a toy. It really is more comparable to the random super-powers that you could get in chaos wastes.
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It’s also weird design that blessings with power (that affects all three of damage, stagger and cleave) can reach such high numbers when specialised blessings that only affect one of those stats can’t or have odder or esoteric activation conditions.
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Yup. I remember when everyone would run Swift Slaying, lmao. I kind of blame that on the proliferation of guides recommending it. This is also why I love Chaos Waste so much since the proprieties you get are random.
As I said, Flamer is still strong, PS is still OP with PC T4, crucian roulette is still good.
I like the change to blaze away they introduced.
If you ask me they should nerf all blessings that give damages bonus (this is the stronger blessings), should adjust blessings brutal momentum / deathblow, shock & awe and devastating strike and should rework all bad blessings (all the ones not used).
I know that players would complain cause it would hurt their meta… but people should not chase “meta”. if something is meta, then it is something not balanced that will need, at one point or an other, that FS correct the situation.
I disagree with the prospect notion that something being meta is something OP. Something will always be meta and optimized. However there is a stark difference between meta and “LOL, +75-100% power. LMAO what skill”
The faceroll +power blessings need to be sent to the garbage bin.
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you’re not wrong in your assessment… if only it was what was designated as meta…
however, people want the weapons with thrust T4 bugged, weapons that permited to abuse of the crucian roulette exploit etc…
A lot of their feelings stem from this extremely cruel crafting/gear progression system that is, by far, the worst that I have ever seen in a game and that includes predatory gacha and korean mmo games. It is like pulling teeth even getting opportunities to roll for new weapons, and it the odds are astronomically stacked against the players. The amount of RNG involved is criminal. It is only natural for players to get upset when a weapon that they worked so hard for is weakened when fatshark has proven uncaring for ~8 months and shows no indication of improving gear progression.
The two go hand in hand. Proper weapon balance is necessary for the longevity of the game, but making any changes to weapons will be unbearably painful for many if the gear progression system isn’t fixed. The easiest solution is to just remove the locks and the RNG entirely. In a vermintide fashion, let us spend a large sum of plasteel and diamantine to upgrade weapons to a “red” state with maximized 400 modifier stats. Then just let the players re-roll both perks and blessings. Problem solved.
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Again, I feel that there is confusion.
The problem is, as you said, the time spent to obtain something.
However, the crafting system is not the problem. It is just a system.
The problem is trully the balance they introduced in their system that requires too much time to get something… often unwanted.
That unwanted thing is still another factor. Getting lots of things faster where you’re still dumping them all isn’t any better.
1 Like
yes it is…
If you have 1% chance to get something you want and can easily craft 100 weapons, there is no problem.
However, if you check odds, except if you want the perfect weapon (useless totally) with 2 chosen perks t4 and 2 blessings T4, are not as bad as several says.
My feeling is that blessings T4 are more important. So, I chase for weapons that have the 2 T4 blessings I want (and often they have a perk T3 good enough and I reroll as T4 the second).
So, if you check odds, you have more than 1% chance…
There is still a problem because it’s RNG. There’s no guarantees because they haven’t built anything like that into it.
Random is still random, you could still get it first try, or try 1000 times and not get it, because unless they deliberately put in a bad luck protection system every single roll is still it’s own separate event. Do you also understand how adding layers of RNG just compounds the chances of getting something?
More attempts is a partial mitigation but if you’re still dumping almost all of the items you’re getting, it’s still just as unsatisfying.
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Ok, but you have less chance to roll 1000 weapons and not get something you had 1% chances to get (calculated probability is 4.3171247410658E-5 % in other words, close to 0) than getting what you want in 100 tries with this 1% chance (your chances are here close to 100%) .
Again… you should not or you will come to forum one day and complaining that your superb weapon is now a brick and that you have to craft a new weapon cause of the evil FS that buffed an useless blessing.
I have an HS VI 380 with deathblow… never used… but I have it cause… maybe one day I will use it.
I have also 15 combat axes… with different locked blesssings
They’re all factors in why the crafting and itemisation in general is so unsatisfying.
The chances to roll something useful is too low. The time it takes to roll something is too long. There’s a high chance that the weapon you roll will be permanently left sub-par and you have to start again. The UI is missing too many QoL features to manage large amounts of items. The siloing is too restrictive. The hard timers to the shops drag out item acquisition, etc. etc.
It’s also not just rolling that 1%, but to roll that 1% several times in a row. Have to roll 2 things for one item, that’s now 0.01%. Have to roll 3 things, that’s 0.0001%. Items are a slot machine, you have to have too many things to line up at once even taking into account the “mitigation”.
All of these and more are dragging the itemisation system down and fixing only a single thing won’t do all that much. At best it’ll be a band-aid but everything else will still be a lead weight around the whole system.
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True
Absolutely wrong
totally wrong
“Have to roll 2 things for one item” => you don’t have to… you can change one.
In other words, you search for the chance to get 1 on the 2 blessings you want on one of the two slots between X blessings existing for this weapon.
Example for Combat axes. You want headtaker and brutal momentum. You want 2 blessings on the 9 blessings available for this weapon.
Probability of A: 2 / 9
Probability of B: 2 / 8 (if you did not get what you wanted when consecrating to blue)
Probas:
Probability of neither A nor B occuring = (1 - 0.22)1 × (1 - 0.25)1 = 0.585 (so 58%)
Probability of both A and B occuring = (1 - (1 - 0.22)1) × (1 - (1 - 0.25)1) = 0.055 (so 5.5%)
Probability of A occuring 1 times but not B = 0.221 × (1 - 0.25)1 = 0.165 (so 16%)
Probability of B occuring 1 times but not A = (1 - 0.22)1 × 0.251 = 0.195 (so 19%)
In other words, you have 42% (41.5% exactly) of chances to get one of the 2 blessings you chase for.
Now, when you know that the blessing tier is dependant of the modifiers of your weapon, you know that you can get high chances to get a T4 blessing you want without big difficulties.
I am keeping the mitigation in mind for that.
I’m looking at rolling a weapon as a whole. You seem to be just doing the separate elements.
There are 7 factors for an item.
Item type
Amount of stats
Distribution of stats
Perk 1
Perk 2
Blessing 1
Blessing 2
Mitigation that we currently have affects weapon type, one perk and one blessing.
That’s still 4 things that you need to have line up.
5 if you’re trying to get something from either of the shops, as item type is random.
That’s charitably 0.3% for 380 rating (from Brunt’s), 20% for the right dump stat keep it simple, ONE correct perk at 1/24 x2 (charitably say you only get T3 and 4 perks) so ~2%, ONE correct blessing at (average) 1/10 or 10%.
That’s a whopping 0.00012% for a weapon to line up. Chances go up if you’re settling for lower rating if the distribution is good. Chances go down if you’re waiting on the shop to generate a good item.
Either way the chance is hilariously low because there are too many things to roll for on a single item and there is no bad luck protection of any kind.
It is not a satisfying experience to keep rolling for that even if you can roll faster.
Edit: forgot to take blessing tier into account because you can roll T2 blessings on a 380 weapon, so that goes down to about 3%.
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Flammer still strong?
It’s a pile of crap now 
Full damage, full burn, full range flamer:
Unless I engage an elite at 20+ meters (so almost full range), they won’t die before reaching me.
Doesn’t stagger anything anymore either (I don’t count poxwalkers as important now)
While still having the same drawbacks as before (slow weapon, slow reload, slow continuous fire switch), with some new ones (lower ammo per cannister, low stagger, no armour damage)
I have tried using it over and over, but it’s just uber meh now. Ok, it kills chaff. But everything else in the game does so too.
How they just canned the weapon is sad.
And it’s not some cherry picked video of a guy cooking 50 crushers in isolation that’s gonna change my mind.
That guy in a real situation would be dead.
/rant off 
Same for all weapons…
Choose what you buy
As I said… I consider that I will be able to choose one, so I will reroll the worst.
Brunt just robs your money
and also, you will rarely get 375+. Do what you want, but I advice you to try buying 375+ from shops (normal / Merk). These weapons have best chances to get T4 blessings (chances are GREATLY increased).
You are serious here?
You really consider cause you have 79% as damage and not 80% your weapon is “bricked”? same, if you have the blessings you want as T4, a T4 perk, the right distribution and one perk not you wanted, you really consider it “bricked”?
your chances are really extremly low… if you had crafted a lot, you would know it by now.
Seriously how can I get so many weapons with T4 blessings I want if the odds are so low?
I use it… and it is still strong. Not all the time, cause I prefer shotguns and actually I use again the revolver with the buff (and hope they will fix the blessings).
And that’s good. However, my flamer can kill easily such threat at the expanse of ammo wasted…
Um, in no place did I talk about only blessings, so I don’t think you’re really reading what I’m saying. I’m talking about weapons in general.
I also did say the chances go up if you can settle for lower ratings with good distributions.
The straw that broke my camel’s back was getting 2 decently statted items get T2 blessings at orange in a row, so it’s pretty bad that can happen at all. I posit that your tolerance to bad luck is way higher than 99.9% of players. Mine is pretty high too (I still play gachas) but Darktide takes it to ridiculous levels.
None of that changes that the itemisation and crafting is designed to waste your time in an unsatisfying way.
4 Likes
Sad thing is, they could probably improve their stupid ‘engagement’ metrics by giving players the ability to grind out improvements rather than solely gambling. Regardless of all the various odds, (which long story short: They suck, feels like you guys are missing the forest for the trees here) the inability to use even bad luck positively is a major issue.
VT2 I’ve had terrible luck with reds in it, it’s given me a ton of repeats. (I got 3 red swiftbows in a row at one point. WHY. I was also convinced for a while that a flame sword red didn’t exist) That said, at least they’re still valuable in giving me the resources to upgrade things to red later, such as I did for my warrior priest weapons since they can’t drop naturally as reds. This turned an “Ugh” situation into something positive. In Darktide when you get screwed by luck/RNG you get a pittance of dockets.
Now I don’t know the exact thing they should do, whether they should just let us pay diamantine to break a lock, whether we should be able to pay a large lump of resources to upgrade base stats, and whether there should be some new currency dropped from bartering oranges that can be used as part of this/to upgrade blessing tiers (which combined with the ability to break locks gives you two methods of working around the terrible feeling of bad blessings on a weapon), or what have you, but just giving players more control and the ability to work towards something goes a long way in improving both player sentiment and keeping them playing simultaneously.
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what they should do?
Hire better system designers.
Or let go of their Hubris and look at other games.
On this one, it’s pretty clear they copied Diablo 3 without understanding that the game isn’t Diablo 3.
I made a post a while ago about different crafting systems in games.
Nioh has great crafting that scales up with the difficulty of the content you are doing.
I mean there are countless games to take inspiration from.
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