The english language doesn’t have words strong enough to accurately describe how much I hate this idea, lets go with “loath and detest”.
Besids the fact that your math is inaccurate, who would want to spam craft “1000+” items just to get the one they want?
Nobody valuing their time & sanity would want this crap. This is not even a matter of opinion damnit.
The same way you say that they will never remove locks because it would invalidate their systems, allowing us to craft 1000-times more items for the same timeinvestment would invalidate them to the exact same extend.
This is to say that I do not agree at all that removing locks would actually invalidate their systems but I’m just applying yout logic to your own argumemts and they fall appart just the same.
This depends on the weapon and for a lot of weapons, you need to get the correct 2 perks or you end up having to shoot maniacs or flak armor for up to 25 sec before they die. This could be mitigated with better maniac/armor damage values but then why have good perks to begin with?
This is actually true and you’re wrong.
You need to get one perk and one blessing you want (aka 2 THINGS) because you can only change one!
And this is highballing it! The actual chances are lower since you are being charatable with perks and assume you have the other blessing which you probably do not when you first try to get something new.
I’m not saying that your math is wrong btw, I just want to emphasise for those that “do not agree with this math” that this very low chance is actually still too high.
Considering that 75% damage roll on some weapons means that you can take 1 more shot to kill, yeah not getting above an unlikely high threshhold could mean that what you got is unsatisfying to use. It’s not a brick but it does feel bad to be using something you know was very “close” to being what you wanted it to be.
well, let’s summarize what I said to you:
1.) I buy weapons from shops (normal and Merk) so… no RNG for modifiers and distribution of stats
2.) I consider that you can choose one perk, the other can be good (and I am happy) or is useless (and then I could try to craft again later an other weapon better)
3.) Blessings: here I encounter the RNG layer.
So, again, for a shotgun I have 41,5% chances to craft something good.
2 chances on 5 to get something that would be useful… not really bad.
Off course, when you have already a good weapon, getting a better weapon is harder and odds are lower.
I think that we will get red weapons at one point… but not at the beginning of the DT life cycle.
Honestly the system is bad… true. However, they could choose remove the RNG entirely and there would be a problem with players like me that have something more than 30 weapons with modifiers 370+ and real good perks / blessings or they keep RNG and then the only thing needed is to allow us to craft more things by the same time spent at collecting resources. So, this won’t happen.
Removing locks is not, also, an option in my opinion cause it justify the current DT crafting system. And I hope they won’t spend again time to think about a different crafting system.
I prefer that they release content for the players that are in game than they try to change something for customers that don’t play this game for a lot of time (according to what I often read, these guys have not played this game for a looooong time)
So, what are their only option? tweak numbers around the crafting system to allow us to craft more weapons and to get better weapons from Brunt / shop / Merk
Ah you hate to be able to get what you want?
What I say is that, if you have to craft 100 items to get what you want, and if there is two sytems where in the first you have to spend 3 months at playing every days to craft these 100 weapons and an other one where you have to spend 2 days… then in the second there is no real problem, in the first you get only frustration.
How many chances then?
I did it with a probability calculator…
Then enlight me of my chances…
How can I get so many good weapons? ah… I see with your post. You think that all not perfect weapons are useless.
Sorry but I don’t agree.
If they remove the locks you need 1 weapon.
If they lower the requirement to craft something or if they increase materials we get, you need more than 1 weapon.
So, there is a difference between the 2 solutions. And I guess that they introduced the locks to force us to craft several weapons (and not just one) and force us to spend our plasteel on it (diamantine use is still a mystery).
So, you’re part of the guys that consider good only the weapon with both T4 perks you want with both T4 blessings and with a good distribution and with, off course, modifiers at 380…
Well, sure you will get frustration.
You know, I played with a 350 boltgun for a long time (cavalcade T2 + pinning fire T3). I have now a 379 boltgun with pinning fire T4 and shaterring impact T4… Well, tbh, the two weapons are not really differents. Both eleminate everything in a room.
Check above for my vision. I am happy with a 375+ weapon that has two T4 blessings I wanted. If I have also a T3+ perk I wanted and can reroll the other one, this is excellent. If I don’t (something that is really uncommon), I can live with such weapon until I craft a better one.
well, that’s your choice to focus on such things… that’s exactly for this that I think that we should not be able to get anything that could considered as perfect…
Having to choose perks / blessings / modifiers would have given a total freedom and also would have forced people to choose weakness… and weakness worst than just “you need one more bullet to kill that”.
By the way, what happen here is exactly why I spend less and less time here on this forum. Tittle is “Good work Fatshark” and we see yet, even if there is 12 thousand of threads about crafting, people that are complaining so much everywhere that they can’t even suffer that several players thank the devs.
So, I will come back to the thread. This patch had nothing to do with crafting. And this patch is a good move by fatshark.
Crossplay was needed for GP players. Buff of revolver is really welcome. Recon, from what I’ve read, is not yet perfect, but it is, for sure, better than what we had before the patch.
The only thing I think that FS should do is to announce that locks will stay. As players seem to not understand it after 6 months, and absolutely no move on this question except an increase of the resources we can collect, they should say it.
The choice of weapon types in these shops is random AND the modifiers are random AND the distribution of stats is random.
That’s literally RNG * RNG * RNG = RNG³
The time I click on PURCHASE is not random and what I buy is not also…
As I buy anything that can be interesting to craft… I have plenty of weapons in my inventories that I will, one day, consecrate to orange.
Honestly the system is bad… true. However, or they remove the RNG entirely and there would be a problem with players like me that have something more than 30 weapons with modifiers 370+ and real good perks / blessings or they keep RNG and then the only thing needed is to allow us to craft more things by the same time spent at collecting resources.
Removing locks is not an option in my opinion cause it justify the current DT crafting system. And I hope they won’t spend again time to think about a different crafting system.
I prefer that they release content for the players that are in game than they try to change something for customers that don’t play this game for a lot of time (according to what I often read, these guys have not played this game for a looooong time)
And what’s the problem with that?
The gear isn’t the chase, and the good part of the game is the actual gameplay. Every supporting system is just bad and undefendable by any standard.
As it is now, it’s more of a frustration than anything else.
Again, VT had red weapons, and there was “ZERO” problem with loot at all.
People were chasing reds to have one of each.
As it is now, there are no reds in Darktide and people who’ve played the game for over a thousand hours sometimes don’t even have a “perfect weapon”
Perhaps they shouldn’t cater to you, who are already playing and would play no matter what, but to players that would return to the game o/stick to the game if the systems weren’t so backwards.
The problem is that they made a crafting system.
They could have made an interface like in Starship trooper then (and nothing wrong with that).
If you put a gaming mechanic, this has to serve a purpose.
Actually, you have to do mission to collect materials in order to craft weapon that you have bought with ordos…
If you remove the locks, you don’t really need to buy more than one weapon (you can get blessings from Merk’s shop, something I do).
Honnestly, if it is to get more people that complain every days and for every change… well, I don’t think that these players are a good asset for the game.
I would prefer that FS works on player retention (yes, I can assure you it is different), so that they review their mechanics to be more friendly towards casual players.
Anyways, removing the locks would please these players (the ones that complain every days) 2 days before they start complaining on something else.
No, they made a gambling system.
Crafting is something entirely different in most games that actually have crafting.
Saying you don’t think locks should be lifted is fine, but bending yourself into a pretzel to try and explain how this games gearing system is not actually filled with pure RNG is something else.
I would prefer that FS works on player retention (yes, I can assure you it is different), so that they review their mechanics to be more friendly towards casual players.
Anyways, removing the locks would please these players (the ones that complain every days) 2 days before they start complaining on something else.
Uh, what? I’m a very, very hardcore player for these types of games, typically being the type of person to do true solo stuff (I’ve been doing it for literally over a decade, since L4D, most recently with Back 4 Blood for example) and be very, very into them on the whole, but Darktide has definitely put me off with its garbage RNG/itemization and it’s a huge negative for me. (Servers being terrible being another one) The extreme nightmare of being able to try various builds/setups while being effective just screws up my ability to play/enjoy the game. (Especially because I tend to like unconvential stuff in the first place)
EG: I wanted to try something different with the combat knife. Oops, my only decent combat knife I have on me has two blessings I want but I also haven’t sacrificed them at the Altar of Bo Schit to keep them around. What are my options here? Go grind for hours just to get another knife that might get stuff I want? So I can then play the game just trying something new? I even do exactly what you’re talking about, all of my characters have inventories full of random whites/greens I bought because they were “okay” base stat wise. It’s still an absolute pain in the ass to even just experiment with different combos of blessings, let alone be optimal about it.
The mechanics are bad for everybody, not just casual players.
Player retention?
But… but… we’ve given them 8 months!
And they haven’t listened to a single of the frustrations we had.
Hell, modders solved more frustration in a day of the tools being available than FS has in all this time. And for free.
We stuck to the game nonetheless. Can’t blame people for leaving.
You say one thing:
so that they review their mechanics to be more friendly towards casual players.
And crafting is exactly one thing that would make people stick longer to the game. Being able to try different things IS good game design. Having options IS good game design.
The problem is that they made a crafting system.
And? I’m a game dev. Sometimes you gotta know when to scrap a bad system.
Or a game (=> FF14 did a full reboot)
We gamers are no strangers to overhauls.
What’s the problem with spending less time hitting the roll/buy button (a highly engagine gameplay loop I grant you that) and more time in actual game?
Their system is bad. We’ve told them it’s bad. A majority of the player base doesn’t like it.
Tbh, there are few games (with persistant world) with NO RNG at all.
What I’m saying is that the odds aren’t that bad. If we listen to the complainers, I will surely win at lottery because I have defied the odds they calculated so many times that I should have won, by now, at least 2 or 3 times.
And again… problem is the time you have to spend to get something. This is the actual problem.
Honnestly guys… in France we say: “You don’t catch flies with vinegar”
you keep repeating things and are stuck on only one solution.
You think that, the easy solution (that would destroy the entire system they have built) is the only answer to the problem, in fact several make a confusion between the problem (time spent to get something) with one of the solution (solution that would have been implemented in the last 7 months if they thinked it was a good idea).
None… this is what I want and asked:
Their system is bad… yes.
If I could decide, as I said numerous times, I would have made a system without any RNG.
But guess what… this is not what we have.
Crafting is not the game. Playing missions is the game.
I just hope that they won’t loose lot of time to rethink the crafting system.
The system is not good, however we can live with it if they adjust things to permit us to craft more items.
And I personnally wait for subclasses, more maps, more missions, more weapons… I have already every weapons I want with good stats / perks / blessings (yes this is impossible… but I did it and won at lottery so many times than there must be something wrong with the odds several calculated…)…
No, the problem is that I’m stuck gambling to maybe get something usable. Reducing the time taken gambling doesn’t change that fact. I’m just going to use a post I made recently regarding Darktide versus VT2 because it’s late/early and this is just rehashing a lot of stuff I’ve said before:
I go into VT2 and I can easily make and a roll a weapon to nearly perfect in seconds. For funsies, I’m going to try to make a flail and shield with attack speed/crit and swift slaying on it.
Aaaaaaaaaand done. Recorded it just to emphasize how fast it is versus the obnoxious hell that Darktide would be. I even got maximized stats. (Could have stopped sooner with suboptimal stats, you can see me briefly pause on attack speed/crit earlier, and I even got them as a decent roll as my base stats which I honestly didn’t even notice until I looked at the video, which I find hilarious. I just assumed RNG would screw me because I usually have bad luck) It took me two minutes. Even sitting on a massive pile of extra resources in Darktide (Which take way longer to accrue and get consumed much faster) it would still take god knows how long. Meanwhile if I hadn’t had a brain fart (Don’t craft when tired kids) I could have had my exact flail I mentioned done in 30 seconds.
And that’s still a gambling system. In theory I could have never gotten it. Darktide takes that and amplifies it to 11. Even just getting a ‘decent’ weapon with a particular combo potentially takes dozens of hours. That exacerbates the problem even further but it’s still not the root cause of it.
Endgame VT isn’t about crafting. Again.
It’s about playing the game.
Most players at the moment can’t be asked grinding for a 0.001% chance to get a better weapon.
So they aren’t using the shops or crafting systems.
So essentially voids:
If you remove the locks, you don’t really need to buy more than one weapon (you can get blessings from Merk’s shop, something I do).
As a side note, their inventory management is terrible and having 50 examplaries of the same weapon… is tedious when it comes to finding the one you want to use (like I have 5 shotguns with slightly different ratings and blessings, good luck to me to find the one I want to use)
The time I click on PURCHASE is not random and what I buy is not also…
RNG
As I buy anything that can be interesting to craft… I have plenty of weapons in my inventories that I will, one day, consecrate to orange.
Potential future RNG
What you want isn’t what most of the players want. And the steamcharts show.
I say want, because you defend it.
Anyways, I come back to work now… I think that I will post all the weapons I have… and someone will try to calculate the odds to get all these weapons (with the same method that you used to find that you have 0.00012% to get something good)
No… I can assure you that, once I click on a mouse button, the game executes the action I wanted. So, when I open the shop, the game does not buy things at random.
It wasn’t the crafting system that kept Vermintide 2 alive either. In fact, it was also a detriment, but at least you could feasibly reach the end of itemisation. Itemisation was perhaps 10-20% of the playtime for people who kept playing VT2. And do you know why that doesn’t work with Darktide? Because you can’t feasibly get the exact item you want in even hundreds and hundreds of hours. That’s disatisfying.
Either there is enough of a language barrier that you are completely missing the point or you’re deliberately misunderstanding in some asanine attempt to defend the indefensible.
What appears at the shop is random. You still have the choice whether to buy it or not, but you don’t control at all whatsoever what appears.
