Big balance feedback (subjective lvl MAX)

I’m pretty opinionated and I usually respond to it almost every post regarding feedback on talents, but as with most of your ideas, there is a lot to consider. I don’t have time to read or respond to everything at this time. Maybe at some point I’ll get around to taking a closer look and making a more detailed response like Frosty. The only thing I saw and noticed right away, not a fan of reducing his health. All tanks get 150, and that’s a nice bit of consistency.

From my current perspective on warrior priest, I’m happy with all his talents as they are, sure they could be better, but I doubt changes to improve working talents will be prioritized when there are so many that are in need

Besides the bugged talent combo that makes him self-revive with righteous fury, I appreciate Fatshark buffing his career because I don’t think buffing a melee ‘team buffing’ tank is a huge concern in a co-op game as long as that remains his role and identity.

Here are my thoughts and the only changes I want at this time:

  1. Obviously, fixing the infamous self-revive bug so it doesn’t occur.
  2. And, as I mentioned in your other thread involving his push shockwave, I think they should bring the push shockwave back for the first level 20 talent instead of making damage gain holy fury.
  3. I do like the Divine Shield being triggered by Righteous Fury, but in addition to making it so taking damage doesn’t give Righteous Fury, they should also probably nerf the Divine Shield that is triggered by Righteous Fury. I suggest making it so that the Divine Shield triggered by Righteous Fury doesn’t provide the bonuses gained from the selected level 30 talent, just a 5-second Divine Shield with the trample bonus and flame burst at the end. The level 30 talent bonuses should be reserved for using your ability bar to trigger Divine Shield.
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yeah i feel also that giving righteous fury on taking damage or better said that you can trigger the shield by taking damage is a bit too strong, even if you dont get the level 30 talent bonuses. You can trigger it too often too easily by intent. Maybe a internal cooldown would help out. internal cooldown for auto-shield and your ability bar is still separated from it.

I feel kinda dumb but can anyone explain this one to me?

Kills already fill righteous fury no? So what does this do? Besides what it already did giving health to the party obviously.

Yeah, I kinda struggled to say what I meant. I think it would be fixed if taking damage didn’t give Righteous Fury and instead, just give me back the cool push shockwave during Righteous Fury while still allowing the start of fury to trigger a 5-second regular divine shield.

I will admit though this doesn’t really address the issue of having fury trigger too often when you don’t need it, and I think that’s what Fatshark was trying to address since they can’t add a keybinding to allow players to save a full bar, and trigger it when they want to use it.

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I’m not sure, I would imagine either that kills during righteous fury give you more righteous fury or that maybe they made it so that kills during righteous fury no longer give righteous fury unless you have this talent. Haven’t tested it, but either way, the wording isn’t clear.

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i have the assumption that kills done by yourself and not by teammates give you more fury, prepatch there was no difference wether you have killed enemies or your team. But i havent playtested it either so far.

That was my best guess too. Kinda annoying to test.

@FatsharkStrawHat any chance we could get some clarification on this?

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It has been questioned twice before already but so far Fatshark has been silent on what it actually means. My tip as well would be that “personal” kills give double reward. Because right now, Fury is triggered by enemies “dying” near WP but not for “killing”. So for WP kills by himself, he would get Fury for the death AND the kill.

Would help a bit. But I actually would like to see this limitation for Unchained’s Abandon talent.

You are kinda contradicting yourself here, you cant state that on one hand, “Everyone should feel powerful” and that on the other, the Javelin nerf which completely gutted javelin power, is “inconsequential”. How are there no consequences when 90% of the elves have dropped the javelins because they now are much, much much weaker?

And while the sample size is uselessly small, i’ve had four cases of elves joining with javelins and then staying to play several games in a row. None used the javelins for more than a run and instead swapped to moonfire, and kept the moonfire. One SoT used Javs while spamming over a run and ended up with like 150-ish ranged kills, easily more than double with melee.

That´s not a case of “yay we feel so powerful we swapped to challenge ourselves more” …

You are not serious are you? ._.

Its the same reason why some people think playing a PVE game on casual/easy/storymode is a complete snooze while still loving the game on hard/hardcore/insanity or whatever the name happens to be. Its a question of how much of a challenge they want. Should an enemy hitting you feel like getting a tiny scratch or is it a genuinely bad thing to take a full hit from a giant axe? Casual run or challenge run?

I use alsmost every range weapon i think they are really divers:

Hagbane on waystalker

Piercing shot with jav to stagger the CWs and then oneshot them

Cloak of pain moonbow shade (run&gun, and imo the switch between melee and range is faster than with longbow)

Longbow shimmerstrike shade ( oneshotting elites counts also to shimmerstrike increasing your invisibility)

Moonfirebow handmaiden

Staff on my sister with hunter build

Dual sword & jav sister ( still good enough to deal with armoured units imo)

Because this is kind of her most optimal build by far? Hagbane is seriously very darn powerful if one gets around the ammo issue which a decent WS does. Let hagbane eat a javelin style nerf and see if anyone uses it after that.

Why not use moonfire with Chaos/armor? Faaaaairly sure 40% power vs lets piercing oneshot them, and then you do not have to use the now much less reliable javs.

…might need EP though, i forgot.

If looking to melee, Moonfire is indeed optimal, dull and limited, but optimal.

Interesting application actually, but, how reliable is this on cata on anything but frontal skaven hordes with easy stormvermin headshots lined up? Anything like a mauler survives a shot and the invis is just gone.

Moonfire better unless really wanting to shoot more, melee output better still however.

Jav melee got nerfed but,i do not think it was too much really? So it should work, but you are kinda like a hybrid melee only career with a caster career ability. And from experience, without those old javs to deal with hyperdense chaos hordes and the like you´ll often suffer with dual swords if you end up taking any aggro.

In hindsight this is kinda it, there is a super clear cut case of “this is always better” now that i honestly do not like much at all, it existed before too when one weapon or another was outstandingly better but the reason i do not like this “fix” is because it doesnt change that. Diversity is crap no matter which.

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for this one my breakpoints are

1 SBS assassine with charged arrow (near)
1 SHS all specials, stormvermin, monks and berserkers with charged arrow (near)
1 SHS all specials with charged arrow except hookrat (far)

but yeah can be tricky but if if you cant reach an elite in time for melee the longbow helped me out quite often.

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yeah but the damage vs monster on jav feels the same in melee and its damn strong in melee vs monster.

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this one you have to explain to me. o_O

Edit: ah you ok i got it, yeah i use jav for the stagger, it feels quite good if you have multiple chaos warrior so you can stagger them and during the stagger animation you can headshot them easily. If there are not many around it doesnt make much of a difference but in spicy situations i feel more comfortable with jav.

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My mistake. I thought it was clear from the context and my post history. Sorry, I am too used to my real life discussion partners.

Anyway, that second paragraph is not my position. It was just a repitition/paraphrasing of powergamers argument to show the contrast to my own position. I think very much that a PvE game has to be balanced more than PvP. And because it is PvE it has also to rely more on nerfs as there is a more or less fixed element in the equation, namely enemy power. As such, I also reject the idea that everything and everyone should feel powerful on Cataclysm. I will be frank. On Cataclysm weapons and careers in my opinion should feel underpowered, in worst case even miserable. The odds should be against you. But that is not fun? That is not an issue. Because this is a PvE game and we have the choice of difficulty which for PvP does not exist. I want to feel overpowered? Play Champion. I want to feel demolished and fighting odds totally stacked against me? I play Cataclysm.

But this is not what we have. Even on Cataclysm lots of things feel overtuned and some things overpowered. The inconsequential nerf of the Javelin did nothing to its strength on Cataclysm. The challenge option is removed more and more from the game.

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Aaaaaaand suddenly this makes a whole lot more sense, alright i think i am up to speed now.

Now this bit i really do not understand still, javelins used to be able to demolish hyperdense chaff like a ballista shot crashing into sticks, plus freely replenishable ammo These were by far the most powerful and most noteworthy application of the weapon. Solid secondary attributes were the lack of falloff, low throwing arch and high enough damage to kill elites&specials on headshots with some power investments here and there. Plus a strong though at times risky melee mode ontop that.

Now? They lost that cleave ( limit now is 2 ungors worth) , they lost a serious portion of the armor damage, gained drop-off and even lost some melee power though much less than the ranged side. The end result is a weapon that at least i haven been able to see any user keep using more than one run. And even for the users i mean sure, they kill some chaff but the output in terms of kills at the end is still crap. Special kills are crap and so are elite kills. Saw a waystalker with more kills from trueflight rather than the spammed javelins.

And sure they can be spammed still, hardly has any effect though as far as i can see, and this is why i cant understand at all why you think the nerf did nothing.

That aside, i do agree on the perspective of powercreep happening overall, plus Fatshark apparently thinking that Necro among all things is “balanced”. I do not think a career that melts monsters like hagbane WS while remaining a powerhouse in melee at range in general is anything short of veeeery strong.

But even so…i do not agree that everything should feel bad or even miserable, it has to feel somewhat good to use or people will not be interested in using it. Fun factor is real and important, even if i think Fatshark is taking it much too far in some places.