While trying to be as respectful as possible to you Fatshark because i no you guys work not only your ass’s off but your hearts and souls and i just want to thank you very much for all that you have offered to us for our entertainment. i play your game everyday for hours on end with friends and i have a lot of fun, but these changes you have made to shades daggers and the javelin are a problem.
The Javelin i suppose i can understand but you guys nerfed that WAY to much to the point where it did NOT kill a packmaster after being hit in the head from point blank. This change was a BIG mistake Fatshark and it needs to go back to how it was or at the very minimum meet the community in the middle and compare how it is now and how it used to be and half buff it so its not what it is now but better then it is but not the same as it was. you guys are so busy doing whatever it is you do i can understand you not being able to actually play enough games before you make changes or after to know if something was a good change or not.
Thats where your community players like myself come in to let you guys know, “Hey, these changes were too much” and i hope you guys dont just read through these and brush it off because your game is REALLY fun, but these javelin changes made this game less fun by surprisingly a significant ammount in my own personal opinion. in chaos wastes, these things will not kill long range head shot or close range headshot on legend difficulty but the longbow can on Catacalysm!?!? i dont have a mathematical spreadsheet to give definitive calculations to prove that but regardless, it seems like most people would agree with me when i say that you have nerfed the javelins into the GROUND, 6 ft under i hope you listen to your community and atleast give them a halfbuff to where they used to be.
Now onto the shade dagger nerf. people will call it complaining and other will call it crying because your favorite class got nerfed but this change to me literally makes no sense. your telling me, that you think that the daggers need a nerf, because they allow ME, to DO MY JOB WELL, meanwhile grail knight who some i bet would argue is a BETTER boss killer then shade gets a longer ability cooldown???. you guys thought it was a good idea to make our jobs harder?? the daggers are a very dangerous weapon to use in general because of how they are.
Im really sorry if any of this sounded rude that was not my intention but the community and i have a voice and we want to be heard. and its people like me who love your game so so so so very much are the ones who take the extra step to talk to you guys about when most wont.
I don’t think “the community” should be framed as having a homogeneous opinion on balance nor do I think appealing to “the community” really helps these kinds of feedback posts in any way. There were a lot of calls for Javelins to be nerfed so clearly a decent portion of that community did not want them in their pre nerf state. Obviously others probably liked them as is. There’s some back and forth in other threads on where Javelins should be at ideally, I think it’s fair to say a decent number of people think the nerfs were too harsh.
I think it’s more fruitful to discuss what their niche is supposed to be and how they measure up against other weapons in that niche, as well as the value of its potential niche in general.
TBH I don’t really know what Javs niche should be but I definitely don’t think they should be competitive with longbow for special sniping, and the boon of infinite ammo needs to come with some drawbacks.
The fact we have another Elgi infinite ammo weapon (moonbow) to also balance it against makes things even trickier. FS really needs to sit down and think about what they want these weapons’ role to actually be, and how to differentiate them and not make them directly compete against each other at the same job.
staggering, cleaving ranged weapon would be the niche i guess. But yeah breakpoints are ok, it shouldnt oneshot headshot otherwise it would compete with longbow. And as a inifnite ammo weapon it should never compete with a longbow in sniping. SO i guess a range weapon which brings some utility with stagger and cleave sounds the best.
not only kerilian, but the last balance change that fatshark made didn’t please me very much, I believe that the “nerf everything” path is not the most correct, as it only takes players away from the game…
I believe that balancing has to be focused on making the character more thematic and performing its function correctly in the cataclysm, and balancing damage status, according to the difficulty, I’ve even mentioned this before.
That was one of the things I would like to change.
apart from several others.
One thing I’ll say is that too many want stuff to be nerfed in VT2 while I personally don’t. But pretty much nobody shares the same takes regarding VT2 balance.
many of my friends stopped playing quickgame because of OE, so OP careers also can kill the game so nerfs are necessary and can help to get people back to play QP. I also stopped hosting QPs if i am not in the mood to play an dwarf, since i dont want to play with OEs they just kill the fun out of the game.
but yeah in general are tweaks better than nerfs and doing more risk more reward sidegrading. But if something is really to OP nerfs should be a legit way.
That’s the kind of thinking that killed TWWH, the “please never nerf what I like!” mindset has been cancr in that franchise, don’t let it kill this game too.
While FS balancing is far from perfect, most of the javelins nerf was well warranted. While in this specific case one can argue FS might be heavy handed, the point of a nerf is to weaken something that is far too powerful. Unless part of something also happens to be a bit too weak as well, it’s never necessary to have your compensation buffs
Of course there has to be a buff to compensate!!!
Do you think you have to nerf Victor’s rapier or brush cutter because his ax is ****?
Of course not, and going back to the javelin example, even if we nerfed it, some items could be buffed like the moonbow, quick bow, two-handed sword and several others… to at least have an interesting meta change and not a nerf dry.
moonbow doesnt need a buff. it is fine like it is. It is a run and gun weapon now. Not a sniper, If it would be as good in sniping as longbow with the breakpoints. Everyone would take it and noone would play longbow. And if you would give it AOE then it would rival hagbane too hard. I am not a fan of buffing everything it powercreeps too hard and cata is already is easy. If the player want to have a walk in the park they should lower the difficulty and not beg for buffs.
Also 2 handed sword already got a massive buff as well as most 1 handed weapons. 2H sword is pretty damn strong now. Quickbow is also fine it is meant as a horde clear weapon and not as a sniper weapon, and it clears hordes pretty fast.
So all your weapons which you want to buff are fine.
But then BW was ridiculous, and now OE is ridiculous.
For what it’s worth I’m chuffed to bits to not be getting double javelins in the back every 3 seconds EVERY RUN while I’m fighting a horde. There was a time I’d have advocated for javelins to be snapped across Kruber’s knee and thrown into a bonfire.
Keep Elf weapons as they are, and as part of the community I’m glad FS listened to their community and nerfed Javelins.
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It aint fine, i still do not see anyone use it, its still a mix of mostly javelins and a few, very few, longbows. It definitely needs a rework! The waystalkers meanwhile are all using hagbane/swiftbow.
Never really expected swiftbow to suddenly get a spike in use from this.
Yeah the quotation you have chosen is valid in the context most guys are arguing about it. I dont want to straight up buffs like most topics suggest. I main moonfirebow and i described my playstyle. But Velsix suggestion is not a mindlessly buff for me it is more at tweak to improve its performance in its own niche. And i see this niche because i play it like velsix described it. And yeah in the context i dont want buffs, i still dont want breakpoint buffs for it. But this is more a tweak so it fits the paystyle better.
Sorry i was confused that this is the moonfirebow topic of velsix.
The style you use if i am not mistaken is just a glorified pulling tool for ambients? If one calls that fine then the SoT staff that hardly anyone uses is also fine.
I consider it to be a rather abysmal state though given the belief that a ranged weapon should both fulfill a relevant purpose ( clearing specials/density/elites) and also be on a similar level of power as the “competition”. Moonbow in its current state falls very flat compared to the competition given it kills about 3 targets every 10 seconds on average, given it needs 2 shots/headshots for a lot of things.
And if discussing emergency use, given that moonbow lacks the ability to penetrate, its worse than current javs, its worse under pressure from something like a special riding just simple chaff.
Imma head over to Velsix thread and write something to similar effect there.
On Cata 1, the charged shots of both Moonfire Bow and Elf Longbow hit 1 Marauder and do not cleave it and they both hit 2 clan rats. Javelin has the same cleave value as Moonfire.
i hope you listen to your community and atleast give them a halfbuff to where they used to be.