Update and elgi nerfs

Coming March 15th.


SoTT build sounds fun.

I just don’t know what use Incandescence will be (it was only good with Bloodrazor for bursting Bosses/Pats).


Hopefully Moonfire tweaks too.

I just realised they’re making Ironbark bigger, so hopefully it procs the new poison with it’s damage? Otherwise it’ll be useful for like 1 meme Weave build on a single map or something. Blackvenom Thicket was only useful because you had the positioning of the Wall and the damage bonus from the Shrapnel and Stagger.

Not saying it isn’t happening, but I’m yet to see anyone say anything good about Ironbark. Especially since on more open maps the Wall without the Stagger is completely useless.

On open maps with Blackvenom, you could plonk it in the middle of the Horde or use it to Stagger high Elite Density. Ironbark will just slow an already avoidable Special.

Shade turning into the ultimate patrol deleter. Just fantastic.

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Feeling really mixed about these currently. Some of this sounds really absurd on paper but might not actually be so when played.
I guess my opinion is still highly biased because I haven’t seen the supposed moonfire/javelin nerfs.

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Just copying over from the Steam Forum:

The changes for the Sister of the Thorn sound good. At least on paper, have to see how it plays out. So far:

  • Thanks for nuking the nuke. It seems Blackvenom Thicket is the old nuke just without the damage which shouldn’t have been there in the first place. The stagger effect alone is already good and with the debuff, it will be still an excellent choice but not invalidate high elite densities anymore
  • Also Blackvenom Blades is a clever solution as it only applies after the first hit (hopefully) and only in melee. So SotT needs at least two hits to kill stuff and no debuff by ranged play.
  • Also thanks for changing Doomsight (now Briar’s Malice?) and only applying the crits for using her own career skill and also just two instead of three hits. That will reduce the crit spam notably. And I will no longer feel bad for using my career skill and making Sister even more overpowered.
  • Tanglegrasp Thicket sounds interesting. Hard to imagine right now but it might be a fun alternative. Not sure if Ironbark is enough with the increased width. Would have preferred to see a defence/healing talent there.
  • Bonded Spirit sounds overtuned to me. Radiance has only a cooldown of 30 seconds while being hit adds 2 seconds? You would have to be a hit 15 times in a minute for this to be not an improvement. You should wait for data and look if these numbers don’t need adjustment either by harder punishment for being hit (5 seconds+) or decreasing Radiance only by 33 % (already a lot).

All in all, it “sounds” good. Let’s wait for the first rounds. Seems more support orientated at least.

Can’t say much about Shade changes. Not my career to go.

And now go and nerf Forgotten Relics weapon pack and Javelin. They are in dire need of it. And if you nerf/rework Moonfire Bow, please make intelligent changes and not just make it simply more headshot dependent. There are others more interesting suggestions.


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Shade sounds fun in wise hands :wink:


Hopefully this changes for a lot of people. Current Shade is high skill low depth. Spam headshots with no real mechanics, or (before the nefs) spam Light Attack backstabs while invisible.

I think it has potential to be really supportive, and deal a lot of damage, while being at more risk due to less Power for Staggers.

Yesterday I was playing Greatsword with Repel and Blackvenom Thicket, and got kicked for playing SoTT. Their comp was RV with the Masterwork Pistol, BH with the only Career Skill Talent that ever gets used, and Grail Knight with Exe + Dual Wield. Lmfao

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Yeah but that was always the intent of the assassin-type career. Now it feels like she’s gonna be only that when you build for it, not a 90% uptime 100% crit mechanic that has value regardless of the circumstances.

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Honestly both SotT and Shade sound like they could potentially still be insane after these changes (Shade especially) though obviously will have to wait and see what the community can do with them once these changes go live. Definitely not sure about trying to solve the backstab issue by giving her even more invisibility. Sounds like it could be abused effectively at higher skill levels.

Anyway we’ll see. At least the changes all sound fairly interesting and interactive, even if I’m not a fan of giving Elf raw power increases.


A mixture of potentially good changes alongside a host of utterly baffling ones. As is completely normal in all video game balance patches.

Given how chaining invisibility has always worked thus far I can’t say I’m looking forward to seeing how her new backstab centered playstyle will play out off host. I have no idea of what is meant by a “charged” backstab. And adding Flense of all things to bloody Thorn elf seems ill-advised to say the least.

But hey, at least Cloak of Mist and Doomsight are finally dead.

I look forward to seeing many out of position Shades die horrible, horrible deaths come Tuesday.

P.S. When can Bulwark look forward to being brought up to par with the Blackvenom effect?

Presumably charged/heavy attacks that hit an enemy’s back no? Can’t see what else that could mean.

To be fair it’s a single stack max unless taking the talent for 2 stacks, and we have no idea how much damage it does. It could be silly but it could also easily be fine.

I’ve not been privy to any of the testing, is that confirmed?

I’m just reading the document linked in this thread.

How else could you interpret this perk/talent combo? Only logical conclusion to me is that blackvenom only has 1 max stack by default.

Edit: Apologies, just realised you were probably talking about the new Atharti’s. Yeah who knows how strong that will be. Could definitely be nuts. It’s a weird condition too since you’re already applying poison with melee, so presumably first melee hit won’t apply bleed but every subsequent hit will.

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I’m talking about:

Based on how Blackvenom seems to be a poison, I read this talent as effectively Flense for any attack that hits a Blackvenom’d enemy. I also note that this description makes no mention of if the effect is limited to melee attacks or if it also works with ranged attacks.


Yeah sorry realised a moment ago and added an edit to my previous response.


Wording allows both. However, as you need to apply Blackvenom in melee (outside of Blackvenom Thicket) you would have to gain distance first before being able to shoot the enemies. That said, how are they “adding” Flense to Sister of the Thorn. The talent is already there on her. The only thing they change is the trigger away from crits to poisoned enemies. And considering that SotT had billions of crits then this is still a nerf. Haven’t tested current Atharthi to much, is it even the same damage as Flense?

All that said, her new power level might depend on the trigger for her debuffs. For example does the first hit normal damage and only apply Blackvenom poison or does it already have the debuff bonus as well? There are a few talents where the power bonus granted by attacks is already applied by the first attack (see Fuel to the Fire where the explosion already gets the power bonus from hitting enemies). If damage bonus and debuffs are really applied in order then it is a massive improvement over what we have now. First hit 100 % damage, second hit 112 % damage + Bleed. Right now she can take Isha’s Bounty make three hits and have a constant 15 % power bonus.

Even if SotT takes the double stack for Blackvenom it is only useful on enemies which actually SURVIVE three hits. Outside of Cataclysm I don’t think the damage bonus stacking will become a problem. On Cataclysm it needs to be seen but hordes dies fast there too. The double blackvenom + bleed build seems to me mostly useful against monsters. So she has the option for a monster killer build costing two talents. Right now SotT has Murder of Spite which does effectively the same. We have to see how it plays out. But right now it seems to be some clever nerfs on most fronts. Only thing she has now still going is her unlimited THP.

i kinda like it, its alteast a unique identity, and i rather have a player abuse a mechanic that needs atleast some thoughts to pull off rather than hurr durr crits, ofc thats assuming that its not ginormously overtuned.

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Only on critical hits. There is a significant difference in availability between “only applies on crits” and “applies on every subsequent hit on an enemy after the first.” Even with current Doomsight.

One of the first things I did was go to the breakpoint calculator to look, but it doesn’t have the info for the Atharti bleed. That being said Flense already shares its damage with Dual Dagger’s bleed so it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Atharti’s does as well.

I prefer to voice my concerns beforehand and hope that someone at Fatshark does a sanity check on a potentially problematic talent than saying nothing. Especially since, in a very concerning move, this patch was never released for public testing.

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With Atharti’s Delight getting canned I hope some sort of rework for the staff is in order, really suffers without it. Unless the point really was disable stuff because you need 3/4 the bar to kill a cata gun rat.

you take that back :pensive: