Update and elgi nerfs

You can do weapon “nerfs” that barely change anything. Still waiting for those numbers before I jump in happiness or regret.

Myeah this is my fear as well. Sotts kitt seems to have insane levels of support now, which is definitely different from nuking everything on screen but might be just different type of overpowered. Shade on the other hand just seems flat out busted in good hands.
There needs to be some serious flaws in the actual gameplay for me to rate them lower in my mind, but in the end its just stuff on paper that might not be as good as I imagine it. Hopefully I’m wrong but getting strong dejavus here.

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Not what I meant. You sounded like we have confirmation of weapon nerf(s) coming. I just can’t remember such a statement. So I wanted to ask if you have heard something along these lines.

Read it somewhere that at least moonfire would be getting changed. Don’t have the source on hand tough. Would really surprise me if there were 0 changes to those weapons.

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Exquisite Huntress duration will hopefully make the Volley Crossbow more fun to use.

EH is already quite strong though, especially with Javelin Cleave for stacks.

Beyond EH stacks, SoTT (already getting changed) and Blood Shot on WS is Javelin strong?

In what way? Cleave, Breakpoints?

I mean. Crit Power/Push Angle (Heroic Intervention) 1H axe is better than Throwing Axes tbf.

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Relative to their closest counterpart throwing axes I would personally say yeah

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Okay, maybe we are wiser tomorrow after the stream. Hopefully, they just don’t make it more headshot dependent. There have been much better suggestions to reign it in. Hopefully, the tone down the Javelins as well. Otherwise the large Moonfire Bow crowd will just traverse to the equally large Javelin crowd. Spam weapons shouldn’t be that strong.

Curious at what we really get next tuesday. The only things announced (that I remember) have been the QoL, the Premium Cosmetics and the reworks. Also wonder how Illusionist got reworked. Oh, also a fix to the stagger overwrite bug.

But is that it? The CM has talked about the release of stellar content this year, starting next week & beyond. Nothing of this so far is really “content”. Maybe it was just worded badly. Or we are in for a surprise.


I feel like the nerf to Morai Hegs will act as a nerf to what I’d consider the most egregious javelins build. Radiant Inheritance change might help there too. I still don’t think those two weapons are on the same level to begin with though. Not to say I’d mind seeing javelins brought down a bit regardless. Their crit modifier especially is probably too abuseable by the likes of handmaiden and the cleave definitely feels redundantly high. Stagger maybe a bit too high too, but we’ll see what, if anything they do with it.


I’m excited about some of the changes. I can’t say more without trying them first.

Still, Moonbow and Javelin being untouched leaves a bad taste in the mouth. The cynic in me is wondering if they are keeping them OP for sales’ sake.
The optimist is saying that the post was about careers, not general changes.


I wana recall info stating we were getting other stuff as well, including a fix to stagger override behaviours, so one can take this as them testing the waters i think.

Other stuff will come along later.


well considering that whenever sott was talked about, moonbow and javelin weren’t far behind in the decussion, so its virtually impossible to not know how the community feels about them…


To expand on that, I wonder if Hagbane will also apply the bleed on enemies it’s already poisoned. I don’t see it being very useable on SotT with Pale Queen gone regardless, but gonna be curious how they interact. Might be crazy boss burst with a strength pot perhaps?

Moonfire bow is still a thing. As is ranged, AoE Blackvenom application via one of the ult talents. Not to mention how you can just have an RV in the group.

Here’s some dirty math.

The rudimentary testing I did last night showed that current Atharti’s is comparable per tic damage to Flense. So I’m just going to use Flense damage from OrangeChris’ Breakpoint Calculator plus the notes from Cheese’s SotT guide that state it uses the standard 0.75s tic rate, lasts 5s, and stacks 5 times.

Discarding Blackvenom’s boost, with a strength pot you’re looking at each stack of Atharti’s to deal 13.5 total damage to an unarmored boss. A partially charged moonfire bow shot under those conditions does 104 damage total, so adding 1 stack of Arthati’s is a ~13% dps increase. Since the moonfire bow can only fire 5 partially charged shots on a full energy bar, we can essentially just say that it’s a 13% damage increase. For the hagbane its overall damage increase is muckier to calculate due to the mismatched dot durations and increased spam, but it’s still a ~26.7% potential damage increase for each hagbane arrow.

Edit: I am not the best at finger rolling, but I can consistently get 11 charged hagbane shots into 10s of potion duration. Assuming I am perfectly average at spamming hagbane, that means that the stack cap on Atharti’s should only cause us to 1 total application of the dot. Hypothetically you should only lose about 2-3% of the total potential damage that way. So Atharti’s should increase hagbane boss damage by about 24%.

It’s also worth noting that on the Live version of the game the AoE portion of Moonfire/Hagbane charged attacks cannot crit. Thus the current version of Atharti’s Delight only produces one stack of the dot. Given the way that Barrage stacking works with AoE weapons, it seems reasonable to posit that with the coming change that both the arrow and the AoE component could place a stack of Atharti’s on a Blackvenom afflicted target, which would greatly speed up the stacking and provide even more damage overall.

So live stream confirms that Moonfire Bow is getting changed. Maybe it will feel less broken now. However, the Javelin is left completely untouched. This doesn’t make any sense. The Javelins are overpowered on every single Kerillian career. People will just traverse from Moonfire Bow to Javelins and still spam every single roamer and the horde.

This is very frustrating. Not sure how they can say the see the threads but ignore the multiple posts and topics complaining that the weapon is not balanced, not even in Cataclysm.


Because its not actually that overpowered? Lets face it, the stagger is definitely over the top, the cleave is also too high, but thats all there is to it.

Shooting every roamer/hordling in sight? We already had infinite ammo weapons/synergies before then, and unlike the moonbow there´s a significant investment of stats needed to make the javs work well. Except for SoT and her crit spam but that´s going out the window pretty soon.

There is nothing exceptional about the javs except the stagger and then the cleave, and its noteworthy that base ammo is just 4 shots before slowly reloading 1 by 1.

You get more ranged uptime with a hagstalker or even a swiftbow.

And even if the stagger was reduced to reasonable levels its still the case that the cleave could only get minor nerfs given the fact that it´d just be a discount longbow otherwise. Even now a reasonably skilled longbow user can pick off almost every single elite in sight from twice the range with singular shots.

Except monks were you can kill several since the arrows actually pierce them.


You could still nerf the cleave or stagger and at least acknowledge that it might be problematic. At any rate I’m not too sure I’m even happy about the way moonfire is getting nerfed but I’m honestly starting to reach point where I don’t care.

Honestly, the stagger isn’t even much of a problem in my book. Because if I throw a frigging Javelin at something, I expect it to react. The cleave is something which definetely should be lowered, at least down to 50 % of what it is now.

The most aggravting thing is the spam though in half of the quickplay lobbies. And it is not that you need to invest much stats to make this playstyle viable. Because after all, you can simply throw a second Javelin. And yea, I see regularly people killing Chaos Warriors by throwing Javelins. I play games with Shades and Waystalker where I have no idea which melee weapon they have because they never let go of Javelins. And needing more than one throw isn’t an issue either because the reload is laughable low and also doesn’t slow you down. If you even need to reload which can partially circumvented by Scrounger or Conservative Shooter (mostly against hordes). These issues are present on every career. SotT might have been another dimension again. But it not like Waystalker has six Javelins and Bloodshot or Handmaiden and SotT can’t have high crit chances either.

Coruscation Staff isn’t adressed either -_- or other things.

EDIT: Yea, that was meant to be Cleave. Corrected


Honestly, I’m relieved that we aren’t seeing widespread, sweeping balance changes in a single patch that has never ever touched a public testing beta. That would likely have been a complete disaster, as several of the prior large balancing patches have shown before.


Hm, yes, i do suppose that tuning down the stagger wouldnt be wrong even if one insists on keeping the cleave to differentiate from longbow.

But, you have info on how moonbow is getting hit?

ehm, first you state that it isnt a problem, then you do? Do you mean the cleave for the second part?

Honestly speaking though, thinking about it, it makes no sense at all that it staggers things so well given that longbow/crossbows actually packs more kinetic force than a thrown spear. Additionally from a design perspective its better to keep the cleave since reducing it by any significant margin runs the risk of pushing it in the “discount longbow” direction.

I cant say i ever recall a time when ranged spam was not a thing, and the javs arent even the most powerful ones in play as far as i am concerned. High pickrate? Well quite possibly so but that might be because they are honestly a nicely different thing compared to the rest of her arsenal and satisfying to throw around.

Hagbane and swiftbow or even moonbow definitely lacks that “oopmh” of landing a good toss with the javelin, be it a headshot or impaling a small row of enemies. Shade´s volleybow also feels nice to use…if it didnt run outa ammo so horribly fast that is.

Moonbow and Hagbane changes:

  • Both increased DoT on headshot and crit (finessed hits)
  • Moonbow AoE removed on half and full charged shots and their damage profiles have been reduced
  • Hagbane now applies the AoE poison on every bounce with ricochet talent

Copied from reddit but you can check the dev stream too.


Not so bad, skilled use and all is good.

Dang, this is a controversial change and i am not entirely sure this is all that good. If the AOE was too much then just limiting it to drain more energy should have been fine.

If it´s just a longbow on energy that requires headshots then one might as well run longbow anyway.

I wish they´d just remove that god-forsaken bugged mess of a talent instead :sob::sob: