Hello,
It’s been a long time since Absolutely Dumb ideas about nerfing weapons to the ground, 2-3 years and still there is nothing to Fix those problems. Vt2 is Coop game against Textures with few animations(enemies) , that are constantly run after the players. We can not call the enemies as AI here. And this is very strange ideas about nerfing stuff to the ground in coop game. There Must not be nefrs , only Proper Adequate reworks should be!
In my opinion , Everything in the Coop game against Textures with few animations MUST be Interesting to play and Valuable to play, every weapon and every talent Must have their places!
1
Shade’s Volley Crossbow :
This weapon was valuable to play before the rework of Shade(2-3 years ago), because there were Guaranteed Crits from the invisibility for Melee Attacks and for Ranged Attacks too, this gave the opportunity to restore Ammo for Shade’s Volley Crossbow effectively using Perk of restoring ammo on crits , because this weapon “eats” the Ammo very fast and each bolt have not so big damage, Crits are the main thing here.
So, there is only one required thing to make this weapon Valuable and Interesting to play again - Make all Ranged Attacks for Shade career from the invisibility Critical, just like it was before, All Melee and Ranged attacks from invisibility are Crits
2
Moonfire Bow :
After the big nerf 2-3 years ago Moonfire Bow became Total Trash, this is the worst ranged weapon now. This is a perfect example of the absolute disregard for the gaming community on the part of developers and decision makers. Weapons that you consider very powerful should have a Proper and Adequate rework to make a new place for this weapon, but not destroy the interest of gameplay by nerfing something to the ground.
Right now Moonfire Bow performs the same functions as Regular Longbow , but Much Much weaker. It’s not worth to use Moonfire Bow now instead of Longbow or Hagbane Bow. Moonfire Bow has no place in the game right now in current state, it Requires Proper and Adequate Rework and Improvements, to make a different role for this weapon, to make Interesting and valuable to play with it!
Few videos to compare and to see the Necessity of rework for Moonfire Bow :
1 - Longbow vs Monsters
2 - Moonfire Bow vs Monsters
3 - Moonfire Bow “+20%Damage vs Skaven” FullCharged Headshot!!! , good example of rework/improvements Necessity
So , my advises for the developers as the player from the release of vt2 for the balance and gameplay updates :
There Must not be dumb nerfs or stupid balance decisions for the Coop game against textures with few animations , you only destroy the interest of gameplay ;
Test everything new , that you want to add in the game or change in balance Before the release. Yes , its the Big problem of almost all nowadays developers ;
Listen for an adequate opinion of players community , there is not so much players left in vt2, you lost much by stupid decisions , bugs for the years and etc. For example, 2-3 years without anything to Fix the dumb nerfs for Moonfire Bow Moonfire Bow after Patch 4.6 , suggestion for this weapon
Think with your own head before doing something, you making project for players, for community. And by destroying the interest of gameplay in Coop game vs Textures with few animations, You lose players and attention for your project.
Wow, what a way to completely sink your own feedback by presenting it in the most alienating, hostile way possible. Impressive. First two paragraphs immediately destroyed any interest in reading the rest of this, and, amazingly, it doesn’t get any better from there.
I always find it fascinating when people claim that FS disregarded their community when it appeared the decision was made after thousands of posts detailing how Moonfire was Massively overpowered. Even the most rabid fans of Moonfire admitted it made everything else obsolete.
In actuality FS took a long and measured approach to the balance and made adjustments in line with the communities feedback. People who are far more entrenched in their understanding of the hard-stats and code made impassioned and well reasoned posts that convinced FS to make the adjustments.
TLDR; FS listened to the overwhelming feedback from the community and nerfed the MF bow in line with that.
Also; drop down a difficulty if you want to power-rush through levels against textures.
I was skeptical about the moonfire bow nerf, but it works.
It’s still more damage than a longbow on a charged shot with DOT (if I’m not mistaken) and it’s unlimited shots, which means it’s a good weapon to use with powerful non-ammo traits like Hunter, and Barrage. That translates to a fairly reliable power bonus.
I still think it’d be a neat touch to have one overcharged shot to use the whole charge bar for decent AOE, DOT, and stagger with a couple seconds couple seconds cool down. Not yet enough to substitute for Hagbane, but enough to be useful againt a thick group of elites and/or hordes.
Also, I miss the blue AOE smoke puffs.
I’m more concerned about the talent trees. On elf specifically, Waystalker’s ricochet is somewhat useless. So is movement speed on elite kill. Shades movement speed ult is kinda crappy. Like Ranger Vet and Zealots level 10 meager 5% passive bonus to attack speed and power respectively, Handmaiden also has a weak +5% crit chance.
I think most of the weapons in this game are fairly balanced at this point. If anything, some are just a little bland with repetitive movements like Great sword on Kruber/Saltz. Greathammer and X-Sword I also get bored with quick. Handgun doesn’t have much dynamics, it’s also now less headshot damage and still slower on the reload than X-Bow.
The only weapons I feel stand out as needing a significant rework for balance purposes are the Griffin Foot pistols (OP) Mace+Sword (OP) and the repeater pistol is weak outside of one super niche BH build to exploit no ammo consumption on the 8 shot crit.
I’ve been playing modded more often now. Playing C3 DWONS on the modded server where Aqshy still plays I’m more likely to find a match than in regular unmodded Cata and even Legend.
I think the game is close to it’s sunset phase. Might be a bit late for significant changes.
This would be super cool. And yes for the smoke puffs!
My main gripe with the current Moonfire bow is… it’s just boring as hell. Gets the job done? Sure. Fun to use? Just meh.
I might feel different if I didn’t get it every single f*** time I use the random weapon shrine in CW
Something I’ve been trying to find out, do movement speed buffs affect your movement while attacking? I’m pretty sure they don’t affect dodging, and it seems like not attacking either. If they did, it might make those talents more useful (that is, if the movement penalty of attacking was lowered when active)
i was surprised they have worked on a very nice effect, which was very beautiful by the way
for then removing it later, and making the weapon a bit flat.
the biggest complain of AOE, despite the dmg it had, was also mostly because of the big FF due to the damage it had.
I think the best way was to keep the aoe still when charging, and reducing the friendly fire damage and reducing the fire dot. and tweaking a bit the ammo consumption.
essentially i think they could nerf it but keeping the AOE effect in some ways.
Insert Greatsword here… Amazing in high density high difficulty modes, but… er… left heavy swing, right heavy swing.
Moonfire would be cool with the One shot High AOE damage thing, or maybe a high spam stacking DOT, meaning you have to choose to DOT spam a high treat rather than fire-and-forget and hope it dies.
First up as others already mentioned, watch your tone, it carries little but disdain which is about as surefire a way as possible to ensure your message is disregarded out of sheer spite.
As for Shade and Moonfire or even balance at large, it seems the idea is lost on you but this game is meant to be a teamwork sort of game. Therefore anything that is too strong and does too much needs to be tuned down or it turns into a one man show with 3 cheerleaders running behind. How does this tie in with what you stated?
Infinite ammo and free crits for a few seconds nonstop while invis on short cooldown? It turned the Volleybow from a limited resource into a gattling crossbow with American military style funding. Too much. Especially given it was a time before cata and much else.
Moonfire. Moonfire gave Handmaiden, or any elf really, access to Sienna AOE staff style clear while maintaining elf perks. It was too much but i will at least agree the changes were the most boring they could have gone with. The current functionality + giving it a special shot or just letting it do a charged shot that consumes all charge for a single big blast would have been more of a fun identity + still better balance.
And before you call Moonfire total trash, consider that there are modded cata solo runs using it, that´s not trash tier performance even if one finds the weapon dull, stale and lacking in ways. If i am not mistaken it´s still the go-to for at least Handmaiden with more pickrate over Hagbane, Swiftbow or even Javelins.
I’d like those two weapons to be better too but the way you wrote this whole thing up just proves FS right about not wanting to interact with the community anymore.
Just barrelling back in to say Moonfire is quite boring but not OP or nerfed to oblivion and still useful on certain careers. Can also be a ton of fun in CW.
I’ve actually come to really enjoy the greatsword. It just sounds and feels so good, and getting down the timing to use it without getting hit makes it feel more satisfying. Plus the push attack for a bit of variety.
I feel similarly about the 2H hammer; simple, but just feels so GOOD when you’re swinging it!
I’ve come around on the Greatsword, and I use it a lot on Zealot and Mercenary to great effect.
The thing is, I enjoy Warrior Priest’s Greathammer more. Perhaps leave the Greatsword and Greathammer alone, but offer Dwarf and Kruber a Greathammer weapon that works like Saltzpyre’s Greathammer.
I actually think it’s kinda neat how Kruber, Saltz, and Dwarf have some weapons in common, and Warrior Priests Greathammer could translate well. I like the Bret Longsword because it has some dynamics to the combos and how you mix em, but I’d like something like a Greatsword with a slower and heavier momentum requiring more careful timing, and mixing light and heavy combos like Warrior Priests Greathammer. Maybe with a thrust in there, as it always kinda bothered me that swords in this game have a point, but only the shield+sword includes a thrusting attack.
As with all these discussions, the Greatsword somehow keeps coming up if I mention it once. It’s just one of those things where it looks very iconic, but in the game it’s basically a crowd cleaver with redundant attacks.
Good breakpoints on cata for 2 shots (charge + quick) that are about as fast as aiming on other bows.
Gets very good time to kill with headshots but effectively no penalty on bodyshots as long as you hit said breakpoints.
No ammo requirement.
No animation time spent on reloading (which is a huge advantage over a lot of other weapons).
Great flight speed for a projectile weapon, no dropoff.
Can be spammed to fairly reliably grant damage bonus on crit for melee with great duration with basically 0 penalty which is both great for clearing and monsters.
Best ranged weapon on cata for elf rn overall aside from ws.
Longbow is not even worth considering unless you know you will have a team that plays around your ammo needs and even then its fairly poor if youre not hitting heads all the time (which is a lot harder than it sounds because heads in this game are basically always not centered so if the enemy turns a tiny bit or wiggles for no reason youre instantly missing by a mile).
Jav could use a buff tho. Way overnerfed.
Ive seen people discuss what things to nerf about jav and instead of taking a reasonable approach they just decided to use ALL the suggestions at the same time when the only thing it really needed was a major nerf to cleave to get rid of the clowns holding back and spamming javs as their entire gameplan. At least let the poor thing hit bodyshot breakpoints against armored skaven specials and restore the monster damage on melee. Make it do something that makes it remotely useful.
Indeed, it was laughable how insanely broken the thing was on release and how long it took them for even minor changes to it. Awful period of time.
Garbage L take
Nothing in this game should have infinite cleave aoe damage. ever. If something like that exists its always ALWAYS either going to be the most broken thing in the game or they have to balance the damage so low that it literally does nothing.
I hope Sienna has given them enough examples of that by now. Not that making good decisions and learning from past mistakes is part of fatsharks modus operandi but yea..
You have to keep in mind that most people playing this game aren’t even on Cataclysm. Lately in the US, I struggle to find anyone playing Legend. Either I go solo, go down in difficulty, play modded, or just quit.
Javelins I think could’ve been nerfed better by reducing the reload speed, mobility, and/or time to aim. Still, right now they stagger chaos warriors, and you can stun lock them with headshots.
I don’t think Amelia was saying Javelins should have infinite AOE cleave damage. Removing the AOE entirely just made the weapon feel flat, and it lost that pretty visual flair. As I mentioned, a better fix could be having a slower double charged AOE shot that depletes the bar with a couple seconds cooldown . Give it some stagger and limited AOE damage for thick hordes, maybe a blue puff effect with a smaller radius and weaker DOT. That way, it’s less bland, keeps some identity, and doesn’t diminish the Hagbane’s role.
You have to remember, a lot of people aren’t even playing on Cata. In the US, I have a hard time finding Legend players. The Javelins may not hit optimal Cata breakpoints, but they’re still one shot HS on most everything Legend and below with a lot of stagger; and on that difficulty, the Moonfire Bow isn’t much different than a longbow except it takes longer to kill on a difficulty where most people can easily hit one-shot ranged breakpoints and it’s all roaming elites aside from event triggers.
