Elf needs a nerf

Title, fight me.

Moonfire and Javelins are stupid.
Haven’t seen a single elf not playing with either in Cata in the last month.
SotT are all running Bloodrazor Thickets which instantly delete patrols, whether with Incandescence or Radiant inheritance and any weapon + the Doomsight’s crits.
What I have been seeing are players who rely on her being OP to play Cata and who have no idea how to actually play the game or kite. My personal winrate in QP has dropped since her release, and that is very frustrating.
I can carry myself, I can’t carry 4 people. As soon as there is a patrol or a monster, everyone dies and I end up alone.
The general power creep that is in this game demands of me to actually carry 4 people because they don’t have to rely on skill, they rely on numbers. Bigger and bigger numbers.
Are we going to turn VT2 from a game of skill, positionning and decision making into a game of “playing the broken options and never learn cause we don’t have to” ?

Just to be clear, there are good and very good players in Cata ; the chance of playing with them has been diluted since more people have the confidence (based on numbers and not on skill) to tackle the difficulty. Another complaint I have about these players is their absolute lack of communication, which is just another symptom of their lack of skill.

Another thing that has to be clear : I might be an elitist f*ck, I’m not exclusive. We’ve all had to learn at some point and I’m far from being excellent at the game myself. Whenever someone joins and says “hey I’m new to Cata” I’m more than happy to play with them and point out how they can get better.
I’m complaining about the fact that the power creep replaces the need and strive to get better by cutting the learning curve short and offering an easy path to higher difficulties for those who don’t want to bother learning but still want the gratification of playing Cata (and lessen my own enjoyement of the game because I need to carry them).

Also, I’m talking about the elf but she’s just the biggest offender. She is just symptomatic of the overall state of the base game. Ima play modded.

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As is probably obvious from my comments on other threads I completely agree regarding moonbow. SotT may well need more nerfing, still haven’t played her that much cause I’m just meh on the elf careers generally TBH (not to suggest they aren’t all very good, just don’t enjoy playing them as much as other with the possible exception of HM).

I’m still struggling a bit to see why javelins are particularly egregious though. Their stats just don’t seem that impressive. On par with but not clearly beating out the likes of longbow, not even in the same playing field at moonbow.

I agree with your general sentiment regardless. GK release started things out well, making it look like FS was gonna be pretty careful with further DLC to keep balance carefully in mind. Then we got MW Pistol, Coruscation and especially moonbow in Forgotten Relics, and then SotT in her completely absurd original release form, which has taken a significant hit for sure but still brings boon of shallya for the whole team, a very strong damage Ult, good steroids and good moonbow synergy.

My mate and I have been struggling to complete Cata duos with any of our normal career choices. We do a Zealot + SotT run (can’t remember for sure but I think this was after the radiance nerf) and proceed to waltz through a Cata duo largely as if it were Legend. Really highlighted for me how stark the power difference in this game has gotten. Sure Zealot is nothing new, though his synergy with SotT certainly is, but being able to just brute force the highest official difficulty like this with half of a full team feels silly. All that usual stuff you’d worry about like positioning, pacing etc just doesn’t really matter when you can simply put out so much DPS that nothing gets the chance to really become a threat.

So yeah some Elf stuff needs some nerfs, as do a number of aspects across most if not all the characters. Elf is just currently the poster child for this issue.

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Wutelgi was always overpowered compared to rest of u5. One of most busted weapons and skills

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Denounce her dark arts and embrace the light of Sigmar is what she needs.

I don’t play elf like… at all, but I assume unlimited ammo, almost no downtime and melee special is probably why.
Might not be as strong as moonbow, but it’s still enough to easily melt armour and the recall is much quicker and more sleek than throwing axes.

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In Cata : OS bodyshot stormvermins, bodyshot staggers Chaos Warriors, unlimited ammo, cleaves hordes like a shotgun, very little dropoff. Melee is a nice plus but I don’t think it is unbalanced.
Blood shot on WS fires 2 of them too.

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Well until fatshark actually decides to act, all I can say is that I agree with the overall point.
The debate, discussion, solutions and suggestions can already be found in the myriad of topics in the past 6 months and honestly I’m starting to get little bit bored of going into detail every single time a new one pops.

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It certainly shouldn’t without crits. Honestly thought it even needed power investment to headshot kill a SV on Cata (which the longbow does not :wink:). Are you sure about that?

I know it definitely does that on head shot which seems fine. If it does on body shot too I agree that’s too much.

Yep definitely has too much cleave, though I don’t think it’s hugely impactful even in Cata density TBH, but it’s too much cleave regardless for sure.

As it does for every other ranged attack. I’d be more concerned if it didn’t.

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Might have been a bit hyperbolic, but honestly not that much. Breakpoint calculator disagrees with me, the countless SVs dropping in front of me from 1 javelin disagree with the Breakpoint calculator. Could very well be crits, or some power investment (which wouldn’t be so unusual, given the number of power increases one can have) or headshots.
All in all, javelins are a longbow with infinite ammo and huge cleave and stagger.

Again, might be steroided and crits, but I definitely witnessed CWs be chain staggered by javelin bodyshots.

Fair

I agree. I support most nerfs anyone wants to suggest if done in an adequate way, especially the stuff which released with and since Engineer.

Also,

while I agree that it may be tedious to go into details each time, it is important that these threads are being made and supported. The more this happens, the more FS may be willing to do some nerfs for a change. Seriously, all we ever get are buffs T_T This is simply not fun.

MWP, Moonbow, Coruscation Staff, Javelins, (Trollhammer), (Griffon Foot): All candidates for a sensible adjustment. And I am not talking about an adjustment like the non-nerf for SotT.

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I’ve stopped playing alongisde the SoTT in QP now, it’s just too annoying and drop as soon as I’m put in a party with one. Playing Any Sienna with Bolt staff and MY spear takes 2 hits to kill an SV at legend while Jav takes one with no build effort whatsoever is massively irritating.

Copping 2 Javelins in the ar$e as Kruber with a waystalker flinging shots around like a monkey with a handgun is extremely annoying, and I don’t step into Cata QP too often.

Content is utterly trivialised. The Gatekeeper might as well just lie down on the floor in front of the SoTT. Skarrik is wiped out with a sneeze from Huntsman, MWP with RV utterly demolishes patrols… and so on.

Any kind of game balance has been stuffed up the wazoo. We have extensive and spectacularly detailed threads on tthings such as he nuances of Pyro, and all the while we’ve got elves running around like they’re on the high of a massive 3 day drug fuelled drinking bender and hellbent on fighting everything and everyone - and they do, and they win.

I’d fall backwards off my chair i If FS ever nerf anything,

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I’d say the moonfire bow is the greatest issue on elf at the moment. It breaks all the careers because it’s so hideously overpowered.

On SoTT, i’d say nerf bloodrazor and isha’s bounty, and she wouldn’t be so broken.

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Someone in QP earlier today said “Well she’s less broken than she used to be…”
I don’t want this to be a sufficient argument against pulling her in line.
Less broken is still broken.

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I mean I don’t really know what else to say anymore. I’ve been mad since coghammer/MWP was introduced and I just don’t believe we will get any changes until some kind of BBB initiative happens again. And honestly I just don’t have the energy to debate about same topics over and over again without anything happening.

And yes I realize this comes off bit whiny but the powercreep problem could of been tackled way way earlier with small tweaks now and then but no. Instead we have this massive ball of problems that needs to be changed and if the changes aren’t good enough right off the bat, then we are going to be waiting other 6 months for more fixes it seems …

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Really though, those are the ones that breaks her, apart from having access to the moonfire bow. Nerfing that idiotic weapon goes a long way for all the elf careers really.
Give any other character access to the moonfire bow, and they would all instantly become top tier.

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She still trivialises any situations, agroed patrol, outright kill it or pick it up. Monster? Bleed it out in like 15 s of spam or even less with str pot. Specials stopped being any danger when you can disable them just because. 2 unlimited busted ranged weapons that only waystalker hagbane can be on similar power level and ws hagbane already is busted so how thats says on rest of dlc weapons.

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It really makes me appreciate even more the work of the modders that helped push for the last weapon balance changes

I’d really like to see what the feedback for the SoTT closed beta was like- there definitely was one because there was that leak that turned out to be 100% true, right? Weren’t these issues obvious even then?

I have completely lost whatever faith I had left in Fatshark’s balancing decisions

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3 if you count the deepwood staff, and though it’s not busted damage-wise, its control is really strong. I’d tone down the staff’s control over CWs’ duration.

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I love Javelin (the concept; I’ve wanted one in the game for a long time and even suggested one that works much like what we got), but it is pretty strong - I think it just needs minor number tuning. Infinite ammo via the regenerate is the only way it could function, but if that needed a nerf perhaps it would need blood to recharge - get kills to restore charges, or else it hurts the player or something.

I like that it’s very good against bosses, because throwing a spear is how humans learned to kill megafauna early in time. So it feels very right.

Moonbow obviously needs a nerf. I think reducing the recharge time and lowering the DoT damage on uncharged and partially charged shots would be a fine place to start.

Regarding Sister . . . just take out the crit ult talent, and see where it is from there. Base ult is so situational that the Bloodrazor honestly should be the default . . .

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Yeah like i cannot understand how something like radiant inheritance could get past a dev/QA person let alone anyone who is even remotely invested into testing the changes.
There is also a lot more wrong with the career but something like that should be so obvious, especially if the theme is supposedly “support” oriented yet the career ends up getting the best steroid this game has ever seen and hopefully will ever see.

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The crits are good but I don’t think they are the core of the issue. Her default ult is actually really strong, and I like running Incandescence and Blackvenom Thicket for the massive utility you bring. @Kitten was telling me about running Repel alongside those but I haven’t tried it out yet.
The thing is, that playstyle is strong but it isn’t openly broken - I mean it is a mass Witch-Hunt debuff on a lower cooldown and overall a massively higher uptime than a WHC running I Shall Judge You All! so if we’re talking power level it’s literally up there, but the other options are even worse (or better, numerically).
Bloodrazor Thicket is more of a problem on that class, on par with Radiant Inheritance, even post-nerf.
Have you seen the bloodrazor’s damage ticks ? Go to the keep, group all 5 dummies and press F with Bloodrazor Thicket. Look at the damage ticks, ticking on and on and on. Add a second F using your Radiance stack, giving you 6 Morai-Heg's Doomsight guaranteed crits, and procing your Radiant Inheritance. Take the Moonfire Bow out and shoot those 6 crits in the dummies, bleeding them with Atharti's Delight. Look at the neverending damage ticks. Alternatively you can swap the Radiant Inheritance for a 2nd Radiance stack with Incandescence, giving you a 3rd F for more endless ticks of damage.

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