right but not necessary linearly is kind of the point? it’s not like peons in warcraft, if you have a UI team you can’t just pull those people off to go fix crashing in the lighting engine, for example. and even in instances where you can fairly seamlessly redeploy team members that process has productivity costs - that new person has to tie up whatever they were doing and pass it off, pick up all the stuff their new team is doing, someone from that new team has to bring them up to speed, etc etc. there are ways around this but games have grown larger investments in terms of devhours over time, overall.
the more people you have and the more ambitious in terms of work hours your project the more people you need which do not program, which means trying to scale it linearly gets even harder. if you have a full office you need domestic services, and while that janitor is never going to contribute to any of the code you absolutely still need them. how do you quantify that? see also managers and HR and accountants and whatever else. the UI guy example above kind of flows from that - when things are going well there is enough work available that specialization becomes viable ie to support people getting good at specific tasks, but that means in this situation you’re less efficient.
My point is this: What we are getting is not the system that was showcased, not a system that would be “acceptable” under any other circumstance other than “it is better than nothing”. The community’s standard has pretty much shifted to “It’s fine if it at least lessens the atrocious RNG”. It is the means to and end that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
Depend what system you talk about
If you have bought the game at release, this is exactly the system they announced.
If you play since the beta, i think you could say that it is not what was planned as they had communicated on something more ambitious. But honestly i was not there for the beta, so I don’t really know. As i did not see these communications, I cannot judge.
But, beta or release, the RNG was here and it was always planned to be there.
because its functionally trying to be the same game, but Darktide is worse is literally every way. Progression? Worse. Gameplay? Worse. Story? Worse. I mean… I guess maybe the music is better.
Its a spiritual successor and people like myself and many others who have thousands of hours in V2, were ready for its sister game, and likely excited to dump another 1000 hours into a Fatshark IP, only to discover it has like 30 hours of content worth playing outside of camping a shop.
No, it is just a selection of premade maps in a random order each time you start a run. You have the selection of 2 maps after you finished a mission. But there is and never was anything procedual in Vermintide. And I doubt it would happen…
What I propose is nearly the same. Mini maps linked between them.
You get several types of maps:
maps with one entry from a lift
maps with rooms with 2 doors (similar as an airlock)
maps use for the end of a mission
And the game will pick 1, pick a random special condition (including no special condition that should have better chances to happen) and pick a map that is compatible to attach it (again with a random special condition) and then connect a map used to end the mission (and this one would determinate the mission type).
I understand it need some work. But it would be something that could provide unlimited renewed fun. Anyways, I don’t think this could be done this year
Chaos Wastes does have map variants yes, most maps outside of the 4 arenas, have 4 variants with differences in the map’s layout. (And technically even more variants for the chaos gods but those are mostly visual differences)
Vtide players come from games where loot is just guaranteed and with vastly more control in crafting and builds than here (and we begged for the crafting RNG to be removed from there, too).
I can’t even play Destiny 2, i just have no clue what I’m ever doing. The last Looter Shooter I played was Borderlands 2 during the Viking Age where that humor was considered the peak of class and prestiguous pedigree.
Yeah, map variations, in the form of different paths, are a thing, but again, those are premade not procedual. I’m just not sure if the Darktide engine is capable of doing those “procedual” maps @Ralendil described… at least not without loading in between those map segments, and I’m not sure if that’s possible “on the fly”. I mean it sounds nice and would add a lot more variety, if, instead of different maps for each zone, we just add segments of the same zone to create a mission. Most maps already share the same parts… problem is: you need kinda small map parts and always a “connector point” in the form of an enclosed room… could also kill some of the ambience those large maps have, or end up in super long missions instead…
Edit: I could see this work in some kind of mission type / zone where you play on a spaceship, with relatively small sections and where airlocks make the most sense. You could even use new conditions like low or no gravity, or limited oxygen to add a time pressure component like in Weaves… not sure if ppl would like it tho…
you already are constantly going through airlocks or elevators as the engine loads stuff i think. i always wanted per section conditions between these - lights go out, extra dogs, whatever.
I was not thinking at segments, but at mini maps.
Let’s say that a mini map would be a sort of zone. It would be always the same. However, what would change is that you could have to go through this zone by walking from the lift entry to the room with 2 doors, or, if the mini map you have just completed ended with a room with 2 doors, you would have to go from the room with 2 doors to the lift.
After this you would then (considering you had walked to the lift) have a mini map that would start with a lift entry. and so on.
So, zones that would be linked by the lifts and rooms to create a random combination. And something that would be the surprise would be the conditions. By example you could start with a mini map where there was nothing particular. It start in the dust lands. You take a lift to the second zone that is under the surface. Here you encounter a power supply malfunction and are in the sewers. You reach the rooms of separation. Then you access a map with again nothing particular. Here you are in the streets and have to recover a cypher ident to progress through the mission. Then the final map. To access it you have to use your cypher ident… On this map, unlucky you are, the high intensity condition applies. Also, this is a map with a boss. So, your mission is an assassination mission.
As the game would generate the map when you all click ok (generation should start during the cooldown), when in the valkyrie you would be informed that you are sent on an assassination.
So, in fact, the missions would be generated from mini maps that would be used as tiles. Every time, 4 tiles. Beginning - 1st section - 2nd section - Final
In software, once you get beyond a smallish number of devs this isn’t really true – there’s massive diminishing returns and in many cases actually decreased productivity as you add more people to a project. (Google mythical man-month if you’re interested in why.)
amusing little postscript to this conversation, i was playing some more veteran for a bit after playing a ton of zel my main. after that i wanted to try braced agri on vet, so i leveled my best and because we had this chat of course i rolled this
i don’t think terrifying barrage is doing anything? it’s very hard to tell which is not a great sign, lol. but this thing is still a monster, the locked perk and blessings synergize and i still love it to death, more than good enough for HI heresy at least, other than the damage roll it’s imo very good.
No, VT2’s system is exhaustive. You can get any combination you want in less than 5 minutes provided you have the dusts, from nothing to what you want.
Not the case in DT with added variability in the stats that can’t be changed and locking of perks and blessings.
Haha, thanks. Finally, some of the community has had enough of the toxicity of the rest. I guess people feel stronger when posting online so just being rude and harsh is too easy. Criticism on some UPCOMING content, even.
Anyway, criticism is fine, but at least make it constructive, y’all.
At this point i honestly don’t know how many people are working actively on the game, but be respectful and give them the chance to do their work. Then, after the updates are here, if they suck, criticise away
VT2 system makes you spent 300/300 dust and still not roll the required combination, because even if you get that desired 5% crit the OTHER stat can low roll - so it goes all over again
Meanwhile DT system makes you keep that crit and reroll only the stat you dont want.
Only difference here is that in DT the weapon rolls for its base stats so one can cleave +1 target, other need 3 instead of 4 hits to kill, other crits 1 in 10 instead of 1 in 13 etc etc…
(no damage ISNT the only stat there and NO low 50% dmg doesnt mean the weapon is 30p.p. weaker than 80% dmg)
Both system are FAR from perfect and I WOULD prefer a system of Deep Rock Galactic where you just upgrade and modify weapon how you want it.
But this entire drama around after patch DT system is idiotic
The problem is with expectations. Before release, FS promised the game would come with crafting system like extracting and re-applying weapon blessings, so the player base would expect that level of freedom in terms of gear progression, especially those who played Vermintide 2.
Now aside from the horrible randomness that is now, even the future patched-up version is still trying to under-deliver, which is usually not a good posture when someone just said “Sorry, I know I was wrong.”
