What you propose…
I remember you telling me proposing stuff to the devs was a useless endeavour a few days ago 
Welcome to the good side 
There are always diminishing returns, and not only in software.
You can’t have multiple people fixing the same bug, true.
But this isn’t the case of a single bug.
You also need devs to create and prototype new [functionning] systems.
In my company the devs are the bottleneck. Their time is extremely valuable.
Don’t forget the question of testers. Their work scales very well.
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Not exactly that. I told you that they made their choice, good or not, they made it. They decided that we would have the crafting system they described.
What I said before is that it is better to propose things inside the system they decided to implement.
I added also (not sure it was in the post answering to you) that it doesn’t mean that the system will never change. But let’s be serious, it won’t change the next month and not during this year.
About my proposition. As I said, I don’t think crafting will change drastically the numbers of active players. This will permit to stop seeing review that point the fact that this game is not finished (my review says it at this moment).
However, if they want to bring back players or even get more players, they need to put content. I have 538 hours on this game… I love it. However, let’s say it, the game lacks of content. Sure, they plan to add sub-classes. But, 14 missions is not enough.
Maybe one day we will get orks, tyranids, or other chaos factions… but here again let’s be serious, it can happen if they found a financial reason to do it. It means cash from the cosmetic shop and enough players.
So, before speaking of things that cannot happen in the current state of this game… I propose something that can generate infinite fun, permit them to add mini maps from time to time instead of having to create an entire big map…
I have no illusion about what I propose… there is little chances to get it in game. But I wanted to propose something that could make the game really fun and a total surprise every mission you launch. Also, this is something not so difficult to implement.
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Different builds are also part of content, they can change your expirience drastically. Changing crafting towards more player friendly is a way to increase replaybility and to hold playerbase while devs are working on new maps, classes etc.
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“Everyone who doesn’t like what I like is toxic”
Yikes
“I’ve come from a game where they feed you dog-sh!t, so I’m really enjoying that over here they feed you horse-sh!t. You should all be grateful for being fed horse-sh!t and not dog-sh!t”.
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You perfectly know my opinion. The next patch will give us enough freedom regarding the possibility to change our play styles.
Different sub-classes will change the gameplay also. But this point is planned.
However, I don’t think that the game has enough missions. Sure, someone that has not played it a lot won’t see that and can focus on other points (RNG, crafting to name them)… but fact is, the game needs a lot more missions. I dislike that I know perfectly every maps…
Not enjoying having your time wasted by RNG that makes it highly unlikely to ever obtain the items you actually want in a game where character building isn’t exactly deep to begin with is not toxic.
Remember, you’re just arguing with the small percentage of people who have stopped playing who still hold out a tiny bit of hope that Fatshark will come around to a more sensible course. The people who like things the way they are are here in full force and are outnumbered.
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Incorrect. In Vermintide 2 the equivalent of “blessings” were always max rank and the “modifiers” were very easy to get max (a 300 weapon/trinket). Trinkets we’re shared across all classes and sub classes. Crafting materials we’re shared. If you broke down a high tier weapons/trinket you got dust of that equivalent type. You could combine lower tiers into higher tiers of dust and split dust into lower tiers (with the exception of red dust). You would have to roll both perks but at least after enough tries you would be guaranteed to get it. If you had reds their values (tiers) would be guaranteed max value. If I watched a video and realized sword and dagger had an attack move that granted 20% crit chance on its third attack I could relatively easily change the weapon I wanted to have that build, and get my 300 weapon to max value. If I wanted to craft a new weapon with the right blessing and perk combinations at max value, I could do that (the perk equivalents wouldn’t be max unless I was spending red dust).
If you’re talking of ease of getting a max value weapon and crafting on the fly, and time spent in itemization menus, darktide is WORSE IN EVERY WAY.
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Thank you, good sir. Your post proves that the threads title is totally warranted.
irrelevant.
destiny 2 actually has slightly different looking guns each with their slightly different stats like recoil variability/intensity/direction and range, optic zoom(wow you actually get to change the optic sometimes in destiny 2, it’s immeasurably complex to do so it must be a great achievement right), even the choice of optics can different depending on roll…etc. ; darktide only has those few marks and the actual stats of the guns in addition to tiers of blessings(destiny 2 weapon perks are just single tier last I checked).
Destiny 2 released with a somewhat complete story campaign and had multiple dlc worth of content on f2p release. Darktide had none of those to distract people from the threadbare weapon rng.
Let me share my teeenfoil theory based on my knowledge of game developent cycles.
All the decisions were made long before they even announced crafting system changes.
The timeline was like:
- By the time they released an Open letter( jan 26th) the design was discussed, approved and ironed out. Most likely some WIP started
- By the time they annouced the changes ( like 4 buisiness weeks later - a respectable speed tbh) the implementation was complete and GD/producers were content with initial playtest results.
- Currently they run QA tests of the version update, fix bugs etc. etc. The project is in the “code freeze” state the not a single new line of code shouldnt be added to not compromise the release date.
As i said all the decision are already made, and FS will ignore all the feedback, all the complaints, suggestions etc. etc. because currently they are based on nothing - players havent tried the new system.
After the release they will start to gather constructive feedback based on the real expirience with the updated sysytem.
But i wouldnt expect any changes/adjustments fasted the say… 3 month after the release : 1 month to gather fedback, analyze, agree on the design + 1 month to implement + 2 weeks for QA + 2 weeks due various risks.
IMO the best we can do right now is aggregate all the changes that players request ( from content to stability - like everything) besides crafting, organize the poll to highligh to FS what is the biggest pain points for players after crafting.
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this i suspect is broadly close to accurate, or something like it. i’d also mention that they have expressed an explicit fear of releasing a system that is bad and being unable to undo it. as this structures their core progression and itemization loops it’s a serious risk - everyone says they hate player retention strategies often in the same breath as asking for features that ultimately are there in part to drive player retention, ie more content, progression, better droprates etc. from observation players like to feel rewarded for playing more and hate to feel manipulated into more play but i don’t really feel those two are meaningful distinctions for a dev when you’re designing your system? it’s very cynical but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Because, of course, there way nothing at all toxic about your condescending dismisal of all negative feedback to the announced changes.
“I think it’s fine, therefore the only possible reason for other people to not like it is because they’re toxic”.
It took me fu-king 300 hours to get my first red item (80% of those hours were full legend runs).
Luckily for me it was a necklace which was usable on all classes (a BASIC feature which DT still lacks, and I dont fu-king know why)
Rolling orange items was - is - will be painful. You could have spent 1/1 dust to roll perfect OR spend (my record was 300/300 just to prove a point to a friend)
What I WOULDNT get for the ability to keep ONE attribute and reroll the second one.
However I agree with you that DT needs red items with god rolled base stats - perks - blessings
and maybe a enhanced crafting where you can reroll both or only one perk/blessing
(You change blessing A - blessing B gets ‘locked’ = here you can either reroll blessing A OR reroll both of them)
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I can understand this from the launch vermintide2 where the odds were astronomically idiotic. But in the current game its highly unlikely that you go 300 hours of gameplay without rolling a single red.
And again, condescension, adding to toxic environment, not calming it.
Would it be too hard to admit that maybe there is some valid criticism of the crafting system and not all of it comes from a place of toxicity?
The fact that there was apparently a worse system in Destiny and you somehow managed to enjoy that, does not negate the strong dislike for the system that everyone else has.
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right but games like this generally start with terrible item access and get more permissive over their lifespan, in part as a catchup mechanic to ensure there’s a constant stream of newbies that can play with the long time players. a lot of people wanted VT2’s current system, which - like DT is underfeatured and unfinished i am not defending the company at all, is after several years of this loot treadmill progression.
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Nor am i trying to defend vermintide2s system as some sort of fix to all of our problems. But people who are arguing for vermintide2s systems want the current iteration obviously (or the good parts from it) and not how it was on launch.
I just find it really bad faith arguments, “but it was bad before too before it got fixed” … like yeah, should they not have learned and improved from this?
As VT2 stands now, you can always find one or two higher-level people on discord and/or in QP and get to play with them for a higher completion rate. It takes one evening to up to Legend and then if you only get soldier’s, general’s and emperor’s vaults, you’ll need 156 won runs assuming that you never get red items you want, and require 25 of them to melt them down and craft whatever it is you actually need for each slot (16% per-vault red droprate on average).
Win rate is a wildly differing parameter here of course, but stll I’d like to see similar calculations for DT before concluding which system needs less grind in order to actually stop upgrading your stuff and start actually using it to bash heretics. I myself cannot do that since I don’t own DT.