Unpopular Opinion: Legend players are worse than the other difficulties

So hear me out.

I don’t mean that legend players are less skilled obviously, my whole point is that legend players in general have a whole different ethos about playing, and it’s worse than the lower levels.

Firstly, I’m talking about PUG’s rather than pre-made groups of friends who play together regularly. Clearly these friends are going to stick together and help each other.

Not so for a PUG in legend, Oh boy.

Here’s some generalisations as to why I think legend players are thoroughly worse than Champ/Vet/ and recruit players.

They get downed or die? Drop
They lose a grim? Drop
Someone else loses a grim? Drop
Someone doesn’t kill a Leech fast enough to prevent them downing? Abuse + drop
Yolo into a crowd and get downed? Drop
Get frustrated with noobflamer spam hitting them? Drop
Fed up with Elf Hagbane FF? Unload your Brace of Pistols into the elf and drop.
and so on. I’m sure you could list far more examples of Legend players dropping for reasons that ultimately either; Stop them getting MAH GREEN CIRCLES or stop their chance of getting an Emp Vault.

Playing this morning, I had several runs with a dwarf player where we endured this kind of thing over and over again. In fact the dwarf player even commented that we’d basically done a couple of 2 man runs because of the amount of time people spent joining, dropping, joining, dropping ad nauseum.

Now this kind of behaviour doesn’t happen nearly as often in Champion and lower. Players stay, players who are downed watch other players who are still alive to try and see how they’re staying upright and watch their playstyle, players don’t get so confident in their own YEEHAW playstyle that they stick together a bit more (not always obviously) and there is a bit less of a focus on ploughing through to get the vaults. (chests in the case of Champ)

So, somewhere here (and my search-fu is weak) was a thread discussing some punishment for dropping or leaving as host. Having put up with the load of tripe that happened this morning with people just dropping at the drop of a hat (haha) then I’d be in favour of some kind of punishment for simply dropping whenever you felt like it.

Programmer-wizard types could surely check whether it was a voluntary drop rather than a connection issue, and there could be a Ranald Penalty for continuously dropping.

Keep bailing out and Ranald will stiff you more than usual, to the point I’d enjoy seeing people have a NEGATIVE impact on their chest progress bar for being pillocks and bailing out for nothing.

Now please remember we’re discussing the ethos of play, rather than the skill. Recruit players will obviously do daft things because they’re new to the game. Running away on their own, missing grims and tomes etc and charging Machine Gunners but that is a SKILL and EXPERIENCE thing.

Someone please try and convince me Legend players in PUG aren’t complete idiots.

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I think a lot of it lately is new people. I’ve had 15+ people the last few days tell something along the lines of the “first time in legend” or “I’m new to legend, not that good”. Those guys that speak to you normally stick around, ask questions and watch you when they die to learn. The rest just drop as soon as they die.

I’ve had a simlar experience to you the other day with my mate. We had the other two slots fill and drop more than 6 times each in one game. We finished with both grims and 2 tomes, but we had to 2 man it due to the constant spawning in and out of dead people.

The other ones are the people who push into legend knowing they can’t clear it, but want their shiny DLC weapons. You can easily spot them, cause they will normally say something along the lines of “please let me get the last hit on the boss”. Only to then argue with you when you tell them that they don’t need the last hit. They normally die 4-6 times per game. Actually had a game recently with a lvl 16 ranger vet who outperformed a lvl 30 UC trying to get her DLC weapon. Kek

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That’s an interesting claim, as most of the time I read about abusive or easily frustrated players, a lot of the comments are “move to Legend, that’s way friendlier”.

Now I can’t speak from my own experience, as I still very rarely play with strangers, but the relatively higher skill level of people in Legend may lead to things going in both directions. On one hand, Champ has people who think they’re good but cannot play as a team at all, blaming others for all mistakes and placing way too much weight on getting all the books and the green circles. They also tend to be the abusive kind who bear a grudge, at least for a while, and if they end in the same group again, they start griefing. In short, it’s likely where the Dunning-Kruger effect is at its strongest.

On the other hand, Legend has people who assume (somewhat rightly) that everyone knows what they’re doing and that the green circles mean nothing. Then again, that’s likely to lead many of them to thinking that all runs should go smoothly, without anyone getting downed - and that everyone has learned the same pacing and general style. The latter leads to people getting separated, as some people rush, others don’t, and not everyone has learned the same locations for doing things (or even paying attention to the group). It also seems that Legend attracts the people who are (in my opinion) overly fond of that shiny loot, which leads to more frustration if even one book is lost - and likely quitting without thinking or realizing that leaving in the middle of a run means you won’t get anything from that, so they’re already shooting themselves in the foot. In more ways than one, actually, as if a group sticks together for a map or two they can actually start to find that common pace and style, and anything beyond that will go a lot more smoothly.

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While i dont approve abuse or trolling at all i do fully sympathize with people tilting over relentless friendly fire.

I´ve recently had multiple dwarves just ignoring their team completely and using their flamethrowers to kill any mobs they please no matter who is in the way, even some who killed their own teammates with it giving only the comment “you should have moved” when questioned.

Some pyromancers doing similar things, shooting with absolutely 0 care or mind at all, some shotgun dwarfs actually killing me because they were too trigger happy as well, a few rare krubers as well.

When i play saltz i also see hagbane elves going absolutely nuts on their FF as well,like sure i dont mind a few times but 15+ quickly becomes extremely annoying and damaging as well.

Well some like the shotgun dwarf or bounty saltz are highly damaging with just one though.

So yeah,.,i dont approve trolling but people who are too damn careless with their aim can take it up their behind for all i care, they get serious penalties towards their loot for that kind of crap!

I didn’t meet a lot of ppl who drop grim and instantly quit, most often ppl who ragequit is yolo into crowd and get downed ironically even before death when they can be saved.

But from what I see there is a lot of new ppl to legend and they are often most toxic

The pearl of my collection is one wutelgi. He had death state, I gived him healing potion, but he ignored it, and died 30 seconds later and then leaved :smiley:.

Worse is when there that one or 2 guys who die a lot but he is first to take grim, and ofc he gonna die with it

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then drop.

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Doesn’t that kind of go against your message with this post?

I meant, they die a lot, take grim, die … then drop. I didn’t mean for @Perteks to drop. Sorry for not being clear…

Ah okay, no, you were being clear, I just misunderstood what you said.

Only after your post I got what @LordRhinark meant by against your msg xD (seeing as drop is used here very specific).

I get why ppl can be little more aggresive on legend, mostly because its need a lot of more concetration and can be quite adrenaline inducing, thats make quite explosive mixture.
But overall that game have very low toxicity, comparing to any other co-op game I played its by far best community.

I’m also far less likely to risk myself going to rescue anyone in a PUG because they’re likely to drop and I’ll have put myself into a risky situation to save someone - potentially for nothing. This probably makes other players MORE likely to drop once they die…

Interesting, i also feel like what some people have already said in this thread is that there is simply just a massive influx of new people playing legend for whatever reason.

I mainly play with at least 1 buddy of mine so finishing runs is never really a problem but it is a day and night difference if we get at least 1 decent people in the party or 2 complete newbies who might not even be level 30 yet.
Don’t get me wrong i don’t have anything against low level players if they can handle themselves but its pretty obvious that good chunk of them barely have the experience to play even champion properly.

Overall from my recent experiences i’d still argue that most people who actually clear legend regularly are still 100 times better people to play with (fun, skill, banter, etc) compared to average champion run where 90 % of the community seems to think that they are some kind of god and incapable of making mistakes.

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I prefer a newbie that doesn’t known what is he doing rather than super rock star players which play alone.

I wanted to address this real quick before moving on. Absolutely unnecessary and wouldn’t be a good idea. I totally get where you’re coming from but I’d reckon a punishment system would just be a slippery slope. Dedicated servers or at least host migration that didn’t reset the level would take care of a lot of grief. I’ve dealt with my share of hosts and players who leave. It’s annoying. But there are better ways to address it than a toxic punishment system that would be poorly regulated.

As for PUGs, I think I’m inclined to agree that some Legend players can be obnoxious. I only touch lower difficulties to play with newer or less experienced players/friends so it’s a more enjoyable time for everyone. When I do, it seems to be a better time from a social standpoint even if players don’t know the game inside and out. A lot of players could use a bit of humbling and just enjoy themselves. Nothing wrong with going down here and there or making a mistake.

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On console bbg? Or are you specifically talking about pc only?

I only play PC, can’t comment on Consoles.

It’s funny that you mention it; I play mostly with a group of friends so I don’t have a ton of experience playing with PUGs, but I’m actually really embarrassed and timid whenever I quick-play Legend.

I’m generally afraid of joining someone mid-run and goofing it up for them; I’m not a fantastic player but I also feel like (for the most part) I can pull my weight… unfortunately, more often than not, I’ll biff a single dodge or get clocked by a single swing and it knocks me prone (still alive, carrying the only grim) and the host + 1 other player leave/kick me immediately. Discouraging to say the least.

And I entirely agree that the lower difficulties have a more hospitable climate… might be because I’m less anxious, but I think everyone is more relaxed. It’s just as @OenKrad said. No one on the lower difficulties is dead-set on “I want a harder difficulty” or “I need the best loot”; they are just there to level/play the game/have a good time.

This mentality truly settled with me after I realized I had every item I wanted and except for… I don’t know, maybe 3 cosmetics, I got everything there is, so I don’t bother with loot anymore and somehow, it is a very liberating experience. You know, playing the game for fun :wink:

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