Tried champion's pugs...my dear

Hello folks!

Generally i play legend with a pre-made groups but when my friends are not online i try some pugs…ofc in veteran…legend pugs can be done but the % of success it’s too low…anyway let’s go back to the topic…

i’ve waited a week before posting, trying to do as many champions pugs as i could and my boys, it’s really a mess!

i’ve found so many “bad” people that i 've lost count of them…

Let’s start with the co-op side: simply there isn’t anyone. People just run fast as they can, trying to kill everything in a blink and don’t even finishing the one’s downed; i’m sad but Kerillian’s and Sienna’s player are the best in doing this…then after a minute of playing, something wrong happens: someone is kidnapped by a strangler or an assassin and the complains starts…someone is kicked and then we go again: no co-op play, all are spamming they ultimate trying to max the damage’s count…giving a &%*ò of friendly fire…

i’m feeling very sad for all the people that are playing without friends in this mode…ofc it’s not player’s fault but fatshark…they do not explain how to play fairly and c’mon …the tutorial is useless…this game has many problems, bugs and poor explanations in-primis but this is the worst i think…

What? How many games teach to “play fairly”? Why is it the game developer’s responsibility to teach people not to be asshats? What makes you think people would listen? I mean the characters do complain about friendly fire and it hasn’t gone anywhere.

5 Likes

It’s not FS fault. Sure they should have give warning of Friendly fire in the tutorial, but dumb player will keep on being dumb.
The only point where FS is not smart, is that the scoreboard looks like your chasing green circle.

Anyway, I’m a solo player, doing a lot of Champ run, it’s barely playable. I have a fun story about this. I was leveling my Saltz, a BH level 11 with near 310 Power (already impressive I’ve not been banned). We were defending on Righteous Stand, on the temple, and the “squad leader” (I call Leader whoever take the initiative to give us position tips) wanted to defend on the wooden platform. Our Kruby failed the jump to the platform and went alone in the worst corner ever. During a quiter moment, I heroically charge to him, clear all his surrounding and type him to go up with me (was really pretty to look). He didn’t move. Good thing he wasn’t our grim carrier because he died.
And at the end of the game when I asked why he stayed down here, he said “stfu” and leave the game. As you guess, scorboard gave him more than 50% of damage taken of the team.

Sometimes I fail to understand…

3 Likes

they do not explain nothing about the co-op basics of the game, encouraging bad behaviours with damage chart ecc

1 Like

I play alone almost exclusively, only on champ/legend and on champ I rarely get a team of brain-dead stat hunters. I have around 80% winrate on champ.

Legend is another matter,because some people just can’t play it. If you can’t kill a special during a horde then stay out of legend is what comes to mind when playing with some folk.

the bugs though.yeah,I have a gigantic issue with the amount of bugs in the game.

2 Likes

My experience closely mirrors Mojo’s with about a 75% success rate on Champion with legend being quite different. Champ is the sweet spot for me challenge wise.

I’m a bit more patient on the bug front, but they definitely need to be fixed. It’ll just take time unfortunately.

when the difficulty mattered, this was much less of a problem because if you didn’t work together you were permanently stuck in hard/veteran. some people would push their luck and try to move on but repeated failure made them give up. things noticeably changed on launch when champion got easier and the day the legend nerf went live was an absolute nightmare for people who had been playing it previously. befirem you could reliably quick play and even though you failed a lot due to the spawns, people would talk and genuinely try to work with what your team brought to win. now i can’t stand doing it with randoms despite it being quite a push over, save for director spikes.

I play both grouped and solo and i have a similar experience. 80% winrate sounds about right. As for the amount of bugs, i must say that i have not encountered any that are game-breaking, to be honest. Sure, an occasional rat shoots through terrain and mobs spawn right behind me (regular mobs) from time to time but it is overall a great experience.

As for champion, i just go into the mindset of “evaluate the players and adapt to them”. If i see trigger happy Kerillian or Sienna, i just make sure they are clear of mobs and can shoot at will. Sure, i do not get any damage awards but i get the job done. If i see no one is shooting specials, i make that my first priority, even with the blunderbuss (playing merc Kruber)

Game is fun, great job devs on this one. Shame that i can not use any other weapon than the Halberd but time will change things, i am sure. Only shame not to get to experience various weapons when everything was new.

I’m probably lucky, but until now i completed more easily legend than champion. Usually, in legend pugb i find competent people, who knows where to position, regroup, push, block etc… i pick my ironbreaker and control the crowd while they destroy everything. In Champion i find more often tryhards, runners and people generally less skilled in team gameplay, but even then i can’t complain very much, generally is doable and fun. According to my experience (122 hrs), the V2 community is way less toxic than others like Overwatch (which is clearly bigger, but filled with hatred T_T)

How can you fail to understand that? From what I’m guessing is that he couldn’t make the jump and was angry at you for abandoning him instead of just going to a defensive position that everyone could reach. Jumping can be pretty awkward in this game and some people are just not as good at reaching all the plattforms as others.

I find this is true as well. One of the reason I started playing Legendary was that a lot of the time the people playing Champion lacked common sense and team work. Some would literally just rush forward, never looking back (EVER), die and then just quit (maybe throw around some abuse just before). I felt like 9/10 lost games we were not lost because of the difficulty, but because new people genuinely think they are playing Doom and can only see whats right in front of them. I’m not saying everyone in legendary is grandmaster in skill and communication, but on average people are more cooperative. And if you happen to run into some V1 vets… well suffice it to say it is staggering how much teamwork can change the experience in a game like this. It is then that it reaches its full potential.

I am stuck running bot-mode champions when my friends arn’t online… I am ok with “bad” players as long as they actually try and have a good attitude, but sometimes you get the MLG tryhard perfectionist types that totally suck the fun out of it…

…and despite all these “bad” players people want every class nerfed and hard caps placed on characters.

He failed the jump ok.
My VT1 experience learnt me to always stay with the bigger group. A three man group with one holding a grim is better than two two man group with only one holding grim.
The fact is mostly that he had time to try at least one, maybe even two jump, and didn’t go for it. Why not, sometimes you have bad time representation.
I come down, save him, propose to escort him to the platform so we can be a full group, and he just don’t move. Not trying after one single failure at a jump is what I call giving up. And giving up in a coop game doesn’t only affect you.

About the main subject, I do find the jump from Vet to Champ is a bit too harsh, especially for new players to the franchise.

Good thing the only green circle I hunt on Champion is the “Most Damage Taken” /cry

But seriously, it is really strange to see people on Champion refusing to take up defensive positions during waves and and so on, even if you start in a place which is easy to defend they will just run of because we need to be “fast”…
At least Champion players are generally better than Veteran players (individually and for co-op), so it sometimes seem that my chances of winning are higher on Champion.

All the magic happens there. In the betas before they circled the stats the game was more quiet and calm. (yes it was a beta, new, other playerbase = non representative)
If you think those small tiny green circles do not imply anything, or influence the players and their playstyle then youre underestimating the effects of visualization.

V1 had a scoreboard too, with nearly the same informations. It was broken into sections and the players best stats were on the frontpage resulting in multiple things: Not everyone scrolled through all stats, the whole mentality was different. Everyone tried to excel in their role. No one really cared about a comparison between characters - it was kinda clear to everyone that kruber and bardin had less kills, no one ever complained. (there are exceptions where good players had more kills with tanks, doesnt matter)

My point is; No FS is not responsible for the way people play their game. But FS IS responsible for implying stats matter. Especially in a direct comparison, where the highest stat even gets highlighted. It is simply a no-go. If we were playing 4 bardins, 4 krubers, 4 siennas, then you can compare stats like FS does right now.

Long story short; Find a way to make the scoreboard look “less important”, dont compare stats directly by highlighting highest score if you have differet classes and roles. My personal suggestion, dont even show all the stats to each player, show the ones that matter for his role, the rest of them in a pop-up window after the game if someone wants to look through. Hell you could even fit the scoreboard in one of the empty frames at the wall and the problem would be solved.

This. So much this. Having a competent group makes all of the difference. Quick play threw me into a Champion group with 3 other VT1 vets the other day and we did full tome/grim Halescourge, Skittergate, Skittergate all in a row. I think I’ve had harder games on Recruit with NO grims because people are so very bad at this game.

Everyone in the group did this amazing, astounding, and judging by the average player apparently nearly impossible thing. We, on occasion, and especially before one-way drops… LOOKED BEHIND US.

2 Likes

Indeed, you can instantly tell who’s a scrub if they keep running ahead and never look back to the rest of the group to make sure everything is okay and nobody is getting left behind.

The other giveaway is when there are extra heal items laying around, the team is highlighting them and these guys are too busy running right past them while missing over half of their health. This would make sense if they had the regen necklace on, but you’ve witnessed them heal earlier in the run.

I’ve seen this nonsense enough that I think I’ll have to start kicking early and often. On recruit and veteran, maybe they just don’t know any better yet. But on champion+, you should probably know the basics by now.

I’ve joined Champ runs on an alt that was 15 with all 300 gear and everyone else in the party was doing the same but would be lvls 3-5… I just leave these games now (I used to play these games but at the end
I would usually have more 2x the damage of the next person as dwarf/wh/krub and would be one of 2 ppl still alive) b/c it was to much working trying to make it to the end.

I was tried playing a few games of champion pug and it was terrible - around 50% winrate if that. Today, for the first time, I tried three person + bot with friends AND IT WAS EASY!!! Man it makes a huge difference!

TLDR; Champion pugs = sad panda

with bots i can sleep thru champion runs with real players i always get backstabbed and all are split up in hordes everyone eats damage you cant range specials cause you have to fear being downed from rats behind you …and so on

The Downside to bots is they wont take that 2th grim and they have to be damaged to take the books if healing stuff is near. And on Legend they seem to be dead in about 20 seconds. Seem like there is a make bots die fast code in legend in game.

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