The current state of Champion Mode

I’ve played Champion Mode from the beginning and the first days were absolutely amazing: people were focused on team play and almost all the maps were a breeze; my percentage of success was like 3 out of 4 many times with full grimoire and tomes. I’ve found a lot of friends and all was (almost) good…then it happens…after a few days something change…suddenly the pugs start to fail a lot, toxic behaviour and selfish playstyle become a costant thing and champion (atleast for me) became a black hole of time sink with a low percentage of success.

A friend of mine joined the game 3 days ago and i’ve another prospective of the game. Basically atm recruit and veteran are full of players with max power (the alts of the ones that are playing champion or legend) that make the 2 modes easy winnable…they just smash the maps in the faster way possible, to gain experience and lvl chests…the “new player” learn nothing, is frequently carried and the only thing he see are rushed runs, selfish behaviour and the stupid tab at the end that shows how many kills and damage you’ve done.

The natural progression of the game lead you to champion that yeah is a totally different thing. Still easy ofc but with the right “attitude” to team play. Half of the people i’m seeing atm play in a so selfish manner that i’m thinking to take a break from the pugs and play all the time with my friends…

It’s a repeated nightmare: the map start, people rushing to all that is moving to gain credit of kills and damage, spamming ultimates and when the boss cames out with maybe an horde it’s a wipe…in 3 seconds i find myself the only one alive struggling to understand what’s happened…wait aren’t we a team? why Sienna is alone 30 metres away from the tank? and kruber has just used a bomb on 5 ratmen when Saltzpyre has a rattogre on his back? this happens (almost all times) …then we have 2 or 3 toxic commentaries and all leave in rage…

People are not learning the basics of this game frequently because they are carried in the easier modes. Ofc pugs can still complete Champion easy but atm this is what i see.


hehe, i like it. the reason I left Guild Wars 2 because people were too good at the game.
Here players are pretty funny and stupid. i find myself improving even more when they can do simple things like kill a few rats without downing themselves.


that’s the beauty of quickplay, the quality of your teammates is going to differ every run. to me, that makes for the fun part, i get to anticipate things (eg. this guy doesn’t know how to listen, he’s gonna get hooked by packmaster, the moment he gets hooked around the corner i smash it)

what brings me down is when players don’t see how to improve and just blame the game design for being impossible. i can work with bad skill but not bad attitude.

i would say add me, but i have no idea what my own username is or how to go about adding people rofl. i usually just quickplay everything

I’ve just been biting the bullet and solo-running champ mode with bots unless friends are on.

playing with bots is easier actually, the only reason why i play quickplay is cos of 2 grims 3 tomes. otherwise… it’s easier to complete with predictable bots.

they also teleport to you if you travel too far, which is great for speed running.

I think it is because the game mode is too easy. People do not fear nor respect the enemies. Beta champion was better in that sense. I recently helped a friend level up and you do notice that from recruit to veteran, veteran to champion, people pick up bad habits. Things the game forgives and in each new difficulty they still play the game as they learned it before. I see that in legend as well, exactly what you describe. People just gunning it to score kills and be top dog of the boards then insta wipe as soon as something moderately difficult comes along.

It is because people are ignorant and complain about everything - beta forums were filled with complains about recruit/vet difficulty and after Fatshark nerfed them, they STILL complain and I say it again: nerfing the difficulties just leads to bad players not understanding game mechanics joining higher difficulties they cant handle.


Yup, argued in several threads about this. Games aren’t suppose to adapt to the players, the players are suppose to adapt to the game.


Only true to some extent, jump puzzles that make you lose a huge amount of health are just straight up bad, same with leech TP damage.

When I first played Nightmare with friends in the beta, we were careful (admittedly also level 20 or less), we avoided pulling, etc.
Nowadays, champion is just hard enough to discourage yolo rushing. Which is to say, it’s pretty disappointing.
The specials can be tricky, sometimes downright unfair, and bosses are ok, but hordes lack that urgency they often had in V1.
I assume it’ll get a bit more difficult when they come around to balancing - having a light dagger stab kill two rats with a body hit just makes those waves feel trivial.
Players having bad habits… well, maybe recruit has too much ammunition, but other than that I don’t see how they could fix that without making it too hard for the average player.

Champion is not that hard… if people pay attention

Worst type of player you can get is:
Scoreboard opsesed players, those guys will damage you more than enemy with frendly fire, and they wont use their spells on key targets but will wait to do mega multi kills, pull even patrols for no reason just to increase their scoreboard score, those guys are worse noob V2 can offer. They do not understand that scoreboard is mainly for fun purpose, not measure how good and smooth run was.

it was always going to end up this way. after recruit got nerfed like 6 times in a row with refill points added alongside the maps i just kind of gave up. been leveling other characters with a friend of mine and not only do you have to deal with people who think you can’t run champ at level ~10, you have to completely carry them because they’ve learned nothing about the game. there is no understanding of game mechanics or teamplay.

quick playing is honestly a crap shoot and every day i hear horror stories from people in discord. the mentality all the nerfs helped create has hurt the community a lot, til those types of people move on to something else.

Learn to jump and I mean it.

If you have problem with that jump, feel free to add me (steam name - same as here). We can go on recruit to fast run to jump place with no problem - I can show you how and from where to jump. I guarantee you will have 99% succes rate after this.

I’m working till 22:00, so usually I’m in game about 23:00 CET and I’m always happy to help.

That wasnt the point.

And what is the point? That every single thing would be ez? I’m also like more grims like in War Camp (the second one) when you need to press something to open grim. TBH I rly loved the three button puzzle on forest map (forgive me don’t remember name). But I just rather learn something that is “hard”, then always cry about it (I’m not saying that you crying no). Tho I can understand that trying to jump for grim can be pain on ass, as I saw that before (before I learned) that you can sometimes waste more time for jumping puzzle that for “the map” itself.
This you can learn - we all can. But teleporting leech on our back is thing we all should be concerned about=]
Tho this isn’t topic about puzzles, so forgive me all :slight_smile:

/sorry for my English.

If the bots could/would pick up Tomes/Grims I’d pretty much only solo queue. I guess that’s why they don’t…

That it is pointless.
Grimoires already “punish” you, why take that a step further?

They already presented worthwhile grim puzzles in other maps, puzzles that dont kill you, levers, hidden keys you need to find, it doesnt matter if you or me can do it, often enough your teammates cant but still try and they fail and they receive damage, risking the whole run.
Now you might say: just do it yourself - that doesnt work even if you type it because people are people and dont understand the concept of waiting until a wave is over or letting the experienced player do the jump.

Granted, if we talk about champ or legend, people do (or should know) how it works, so its just another recruit/vet thing.

Ok. So if the problem is that grims punish you already then swap place of grims with tomes.
And actually that would make sense.

Please don’t write that tomes punish you as you can’t have healing item all times.


The idea behind griomires itself is alright, though, kinda funny that they are “automically” countered by one of the stats that make all other stats on the trinkets redundant:
Curse reduction.

I go naturel bond anyway, I never use healing items on myself.

I honestly feel that curse resistance is a tad bit too strong - I try to get it on every trinket, there is no room for not having it. Then I decide between crit and cooldown; it’s nearly always crit.
I’d like if there were ~6 book ‘slots’, with maybe one or two more tricky ones guaranteed and the rest being randomly allocated a book; Some maps actually do have multiple possible locations, to go along with mutiple possible paths; I really like those.
I’d also like to see a few more minor search quests, like, say, there’s two houses, one of them has a suspicious brick, and upon pressing it the grim turns up in a random location in the other house, or something like that.
Search quests and puzzles that subject you to more time with enemies certainly top jump puzzles - and only then is this actually relevant to champion difficulty, as you can jump in every setting.
Then again, this is some serious level design work.

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