Ungor archers - issues and arrow tracer problems

Starting first with the arrow tracers:

Much like gas and boss walls, ungor archer arrow tracer visibility is impacted by graphical settings, meaning that someone playing on lower settings is put at a significant disadvantage in their attempts to dodge arrows compared to someone playing on higher graphic settings - made worse by the fact that we are not sure which settings the tracers are linked to. If ungor archers are to remain in the game in their current form, this needs to be addressed.

Second issue is their impact on gameplay:

Put simply, ungor archers do not add anything meaningful to the gameplay. Instead, they simply add frustration. I personally, as well as when I speak to other players, and read forums/reddit/discord come across anyone who honestly has a feeling of satisfaction when dealing well with archers. Instead, when the vast majority of players (again, in my experience) come across archers, the thought process is along the lines of “how can I play this more passively than I would otherwise play?”

They actively worsen the game. They force players to turtle more, they hit through block (they can hit around shields, since shields will not block the whole area), they knock you out of aiming, they can interrupt healing, dodges, ultimates (both aura ultimates and dash/leap ultimates), and revives, and for some unknown reason they cause an absurd amount of hitstun. They frequently spawn in clumps of 5-10+ sharing the exact same slot, they’ll also spread out in a wide firing line, resulting in any cover that you could use being useless.

The recent change to reduce their accuracy did nothing to help. Making something that is un-fun more RNG does not suddenly make them more fun, it just… makes them more RNG, but still un-fun. As it stands, archers either need a complete rework or removal. At the absolute, bear minimu, they need to not cause hitstun, interruption, and their arrow tracers should not be tied to graphical settings.


Their accuracy reduction has definitely made them easier to dodge in my experience. They certainly are just an annoyance when you come across open areas filled with them.

Ungor archers are a very nice addition to the gameplay which forces you off your usual melee rails and makes you more aware of your surroundings which you are forced to use to deal with archers shooting at you from behind regular enemies.
A great illustration of this is the trenches part of Dark Omens - new archer mechanic works perfectly there.


I agree, though they could be considered as specials to reduce their number and accept them as a ratlin variant


Well they are kind of like specials - they have distinct sound effects and they are taggable.

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I guess you haven’t encountered blight stormers, assassins, gas rats, gunners and leeches.

Yeah, I usually turn those off in the settings.


But they don’t provide anything in terms of talent, in that regards.

They are arguably better than a gatlin since you can’t one shot a pack of them. Which is interesting, providing a different ranged ennemy.

You cannot compare them to blight Stormer or gas, since they force you to move.

Here, and like the ratlin, they force you to hide. So this is a good new addition but they have to be considered as specials to make sense. If not in game, for argument’s sake.


I am totally down with that Ungor archers makes a good addition to the game. And I hope we get more range grunts to fight in the future, both established and new factions.


Seriously though, all those specials you named can be dealt with before they make any trouble in most cases. Since archers come in packs, you cannot snap off a headshot and be rid of them. Also, ratling gunners do not pin down players - they perform the good old “no man’s land” maneuver known since the British invented the Vickers gun. Also, ratlings can be a real help happily turning other rats into sludge.
The archers, however, are more agile and track players specifically, which kind of raises their priority as targets for immediate elimination.


Archers are very low on my list of complaints, but they are on there. Anyone who has played Dynasty Warriors knows that archer units are just the worst. You aren’t going to die to them but they are ANNOYING, exactly for the reasons the OP mentioned.

I’m not going to waste my breath asking for their removal, but I do believe it would improve the game for most people.

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In what are they different from a gatlin? You can t one shot them but they are squishy and have way less fire rate.

Well if you get to close you can t move against ratlin either. When you get two of them, they can end the run pretty fast if the group can t get to cover or snipe them…

We need time to adapt to a new ranged threat

Which is exactly why they are so annoying. There’s no real counterplay except hoping you can dodge them and have enough ammo to deal with them.

All the other specials have counterplay. You can hear the rattling coming and he takes time to spin up. You can push an assassin out of the air. (At least before 2.0.)

Archers are just suddenly there and then there’s no tactical play besides shooting them 1 by 1 and hoping they don’t shoot you in the meantime. I’d rather have it be a single archer with higher HP wich you can stagger with a handgun. At least you could then control the situation.

This is what makes them frustrating and feel like bull sh*t enemies.

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Well, a lot of things can be described in this way. I find Stormvermin impossible to ignore with their high-damage overhead attacks, their pushes and the fact that you can’t really slice through them. Are they annoying too? They don’t annoy me because ultimately they are just another thing out there that tries to prevent you from finishing the level. Etc.
Also, I can hear those damn archers from a considerable distance away.

Dunno, mate, sounds like a subjective thing.


To be clear I don’t view them as a threat, which is why they are an annoyance. If they don’t add an element of imminent threat like a Ratling Gunner does, then they are just an irritation. And that’s a bad thing to have in a video game.

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Another thing that I don’t view as a threat are slaverats. Do you think they are a bad thing to have in the game too?
The threat in my humble opinion does not and should not come from one source only - it is when you’re kiting a boss trying to kill off elites in a horde that is chasing you around while your teammates are dead, meanwhile trying to get away from the flamer rat, it is then when you dodge an assassin, aim at its head, and get hit by a stray archer arrow is when you appreciate the threat of them and wish you’ve dealt with them sooner.
To me it’s a part of the whole VT2 “positioning = win” thing. It’s just a new part that’s all - seems like an immediate reaction to anything new is irritation nowadays.
I’ve got far more annoying things in VT2 on my list to try to put down one of the scarce things the devs made right.


I’ve gotta agree with @OrsonMaxwell, here.

Nothing is an imminent threat so long as you deal with it. Gas-Rats are less of a threat if you are on top of special removal and, if you’re paying attention, the 7 archers in the clearing will be dead before any of your allies actually reaches melee. If they’re not being covered by a horde, just walk up to them and kill them.

I feel that this would only work you made them equally as dangerous, alone, as a Ratling (if’n you’re trying to “balance” them). Ratlings have armor, can’t hardly be staggered, and can mulch a player if left unattended and unnoticed.

Are you saying you want an Ungor Archer to be made strong enough to keep pace with that? Or are you hoping that there are just less of them and they are kept in their current state? If the former, that’s going to be a very dangerous archer… if the latter, they’d be entirely useless considering their accuracy. You’d have to put the arrow in your mouth on purpose to get hit and it only does a couple points of damage.


Totally agree. And I would add that in my opinion that fighting focused on fixed positions can get bogged down pretty well and become, well, more of a matter of smashing buttons than anything else. Instead I would argue that introducing a greater element of manouver rather than positioning into the fights does not make these figths less fun.


I think 1 unit of 3-6 archers should be considered as one special. I agree that they are way less dangerous than a gatlin but they don’t need to be,.if they are dangerous enough to require reaction, and provide diversity.

You just answered your own question. Make them fewer and stronger. I’d find the archer more interesting as an elite or special which is more mobile, but you can at least control the situation by seeking cover or staggering them by ranged.