Nothing is more annoying than trying to enjoy the Maelstrom with nothing but mostly melee enemies (C-IV-I) Just to get absolutely “outplayed” by a goddamn trapper who can just shoot through 14 Meters of Carapace and flak armor while im trying to control the horde of steel.
The Hound is just chillin running around to find a good spot to stop and then pounce, I’ve seen the pathing of the hound reposition slightly when I break LOS. Why cant we have this for trappers when crushers are in the way, Code the game so that the trapper sees the Crusher/Mauler ect and then navigate around it to get clear LOS. NOT JUST “IM WITHIN 15m OF PLAYER I GET TO SHOOT”.
There have also been times where the trapper perfectly lines up behind a normal elites/specials (flamers, bombers, Gunners) and I sprint up to kill them in melee just for a trapper to be immediately behind them shooting their net. Granted this only happens when Audio cues don’t happen which I know is still a bit of an issue, but maybe make the trapper get clear LOS so I see them or knock down the normal sized enemy with the net incase the audio doesn’t play. I know damn well people will still think that trappers would be weak if a change like this happens, but those players are probably 1000+ level knife zealot players with inflated egos who “clutch” games after just running away abandoning the team. (Trauma I love you please don’t be mad).
No you’re absolutely right, that does need to be questioned and often does on the forums. Bolters are a bit of a disgrace at the mo and that’s a shame.
That’s also irrelevant to this topic though.
It might have logic as part of the trapper argument but really it’s about fair gameplay mechanics. It feels like cheating in current form and is not fun.
I thought it was obvious that some things are done for gameplay reasons. Like we can literally discount every mechanic in this game if we really want if we start considering what’s logical in universe/reality.
Like its an convenient excuse for everything really. Sure i get peoples hatred on trappers and why they find them cheesy. But you can pretty much delete the special from the game and add something different if the net would get stuck on the first small enemy it sees.
And i guess this is the real question that should be asked. Is it fair/ fun or even needed in the current game.
Its clearly splitting topic and i already agreed there could be some things done to mitigate trappers annoyances. I just won’t get into this mental gymnastic that every small enemy seems to always be in the way when its the most convenient for the argument.
Sure, some things are, when there’s a good reason. No one needs to see the hero trying to find a parking spacce in an action movie, unless it’s comedic.
But it must never be a licence to throw logic out the window, which is a really awful thing we’re seeing more and more of, and the examples are countless. Like that star wars cartoon where a ‘spinning lightsaber’ acts as a helicopter. Or when a character in fiction doesn’t do the most obvious thing, like tell his captain and best friend he thinks they are about to be attacked when he has no reason to conceal it.
Or when a trapper can ignore what is suppose to be physical matter for the sake of hitting you.
People act like they people getting snagged are just in a bad spot, but a lot of the time there’s not really any warning because the trapper is behind a massive amount of physical mass and can’t really be seen, and makes no sound because the sound is buggy.
Literally the only logic I want is the trapper needs clear LOS when trying to trap us around Reapers/Crushers/Bulwarks (Navigate around Ogryn enemies like they’re a solid wall) Not even hordes. Make the trapper net knock over the horde and then grab the player, Its such a small change for such a better experience.
There is no reason why the trapper net should pass through 14 Meters of Carapace armor, Even if you say “oh its a gameplay feature” this feature does not give players a positive gaming experience most of the time its not even skill when you dodge a net through 14 meters of carapace unless your dodging on audio cues(sometimes broken), otherwise its just luck.
I know this issue is more common in Damnation and Maelstroms just because of the density so I can see why some people don’t really see this as an issue, but the endgame would be much more enjoyable if the Trapper just interacted with the horde the same way gunners and flamers do. The goal is to make the endgame challenging and rewarding when you pull of dodging like 12 different specials while also avoiding crusher overheads or gun spam. The game isn’t challenging when one special breaks the rules of all other specials and ends your run early because they don’t need proper LOS, it’s Unfair. Neither is it really rewarding when you pull off dodging a cheesy trapper net because in my experience Most of the time I feel like I got 0 counterplay and just have to get lucky on my dodges, even more so if there’s multiple trappers.
I’ve seen this exact argument a lot in trapper threads and it’s got to be my least favourite take on the topic. People act like if we change trappers in any way then they’ll just immediately become obsolete as if the current state of trappers is the only possible way they can work and any other attempt would be an automatic failure.
Obviously there is going to be more than one way to make trappers work well, and their current form is clearly flawed and has room for improvement. So why are people so desperate to cling to the way things are now when we could make it better?
Oke i had to re-read to understand wtf I’m replying to but yes its totally different debate if trapper net should get stuck on the first small enemy vs trappers respecting ogryn enemies with their los.
I’m fine to certain extend with other while i think the other would just make the special irrelevant.
Trappers are challenging for people with less experience but they are not that bad. The sound cue is always crisp and clear (95% of the time). When you have more experience and you really pay attention to your surrounding and sound cues, it’s very easy to deal with them.
Check the image below. I take screenshots of all of my games. When I play with people lvl 300+ (doesn’t matter who), they almost don’t get netted at all. And I only play Auric Mael so these are the worst situations you can imagine.
They will become less and less of a problem as you gain more experience. Only if you care about improving and pay more attention to all the cues. They are not that bad. If you make them unable to shoot through other mobs, they are gonna be useless.
You seem to have missed the point so I guess I’ll reiterate
Not in the slightest, the argument I’m attacking here has been used in every thread on trapper nets I’ve seen so far. Any suggestion someone brings up is eventually met with “well we should just remove trappers then.” hgjw literally said exactly that.
I never claimed that hgjw specifically would respond this way to every suggestion, only that every suggestion made eventually seems to be met with this response from someone.
But then again answer me this. Do you truly think trappers would be any real threat if they had to be literally right next to you to be able to get that shot off?
This special is deadly specifically because it can mask itself into the crowd. In the open you have to be doing something really special to be ever trapped by one.
I just don’t buy it which is why i think its better to just create something else if its that opressive for some.
To be fair this just reminds me of the myriad debates about why packmasters are bad for vermintide 2 and the same arguments are rising.
That’s why I think it’s important for the net to be able to travel through some amount of enemies but not all, according to their hitmass. And never ogryn enemies.
But preferably the net will knock the enemies over instead of just phasing through them so you can actually see it coming.
I think trappers would still be plenty threatening in dense crowds. They would still be able to trap you through a horde without having to run right up to you, but this way the common situations that leave the player feeling like their death was unfair will be removed.
So I guess we just let it be known that Trappers are the only special that don’t follow the rules of interaction with a horde and we have to play around knowing that at anytime your fighting Ogryn enemies or monsters you can just get trapped through them no matter if they’re blocking the net, It literally doesn’t follow the rules of gunners shooting and hitting other enemies, Flamers burning the horde for you, but god forbid a trapper has to maneuver around Ogryn enemies and monsters and knock down man sized hordes with a trapper net.
“Good” players are of course going to be better at dealing with trappers AND LITERALLY EVERY OTHER SPECIAL. This is such a blanket statement that doesn’t address the issue alot of people have with trappers. It’s not about how good you are at dealing with trapper cheese, its the fact that trappers ignore the basic rules all the other specials adhere to making them inconsistent and frustrating. We just want a good gaming experience. Not “Who is going to outplay the trapper cheese today”
Side note: using only 2 missions as your data from 2 different maps is such a small pool that your point is basically null and only really shows that Some good players deal with trapper cheese well, which is a no brainer. Experienced players = better at dealing with specials. who knew?
And no, your focus should never be elites or monsters when there are specials around. No matter how busy you’re in a fight, you have to drop as much as you can to, at the very least, figure out the direction of the special(s). Once you know the direction, it makes it 50% easier.
Killing enemies is NOT the biggest part of the game that will make your run smoother, knowing how to create space is.
Why not? There are many players who can deal with trappers effectively. Because you don’t like the physic? It doesn’t feel realistic shooting through other enemies?
Well there are 2 ways to approach this:
There are people how can handle trappers and I should figure out how and practice.
Nah, nerf them for better gaming experience.
I can post a lot more but marking out names takes time. There you go then:
I mainly play Ogryn and Im pulling TONS of elites and most of the horde off my team, I am making space and taking aggro off my team. Why should I get punished by a trapper who can Ignore the physics of 14 meters of Carapace and horde. I can’t fully rely on my team to kill every trapper when im doing this, I should be able to position myself USING THE HORDE as a shield from the trapper to by myself time from the trapper, or give more time for my team to do something. I can’t just “disengage” from this massive meatball of horde to run 1200 meters just to throw a rock at a trapper that makes 0 sense. Granted this is one of hundreds of scenarios.
Ain’t no way you gonna tell me to practice against a special that doesn’t adhere to basic rules every other special obeys, This is exactly why the trapper should just be coded to see ogryns an monsters as obstacles. They become more predictable and less cheesy but also makes it more consistent to practice and less frustrating.
Agreed.
