Trappers need serious work

[RTO]

@PauloEmilio

I mainly play Ogryn and Im pulling TONS of elites and most of the horde off my team, I am making space and taking aggro off my team.

I feel your frustration due to the build and playstyle. But one thing that I see very very few people do, even in the hardest difficulty is constantly tagging enemies. It helps a ton. By “constantly” I mean every time you see one. That is one of the reasons that makes my runs a lot smoother and it makes the lives of others a lot easier too.

I believe it will get better with time even with the build you play. And it will make you stand out among other Ogryns with the same build. I wish you the best.

[PauloEmilio]

I tend to spam tag enemies alot, but then some times when I start getting overwhelmed in a situation I stop tagging as much which might lead me to get trapped more I guess.

@RTO

The sound cue is always crisp and clear (95% of the time).

I also agree the audio cues being unreliable a small fraction of the time, which in reality only loses me like what 2/40~50 games, so its not unplayable nor is it that big of an issue.

Like I said I just want 2 small tweaks to trappers to make them more consistent.
Cheers,

[SlenderBarracuda]

@Taurus7350

I’ve seen this exact argument a lot in trapper threads and it’s got to be my least favourite take on the topic.

It is pretty bad, because what it’s basically saying is “I think trappers are a totally terrible concept that would never ever work in any way, and yet I’m STILL going to argue in favor of bending the basic fabric of the universe to encourage the use of a concept that I do not believe in.”

I’m not that strong on it myself, net guns are a ‘real thing’ but they have to have a clear field of fire. Can’t just no clip whenever they want.

[MadMartigan]

You make it sound like the game didn’t change on the machine god update. Pre-update there were far fewer trappers spawning and all the enemies weren’t buffed AF. Now trappers are continuously spawned in auric maelstrom… Literally a steady stream of them and flamers.

Tagging enemies is well and good but again, you’re making it sound like there is such a leasurly volume of enemies that you have all the time in the world. This is very different to my auric maelstrom experiences - where enemy density and spawn rate is absolutely insane.

@RTO

The sound cue is always crisp and clear (95% of the time

This is absolutely not true. Sorry but it’s not. The only sound I often hear is the net firing. I have a split second to make a snap decision on direction to dodge in, so it’s pure luck if I escape the net. If a second trapper fires at exactly the same time or just after (actually very common now) then it’s 2 spins of Russian roulette instead of 1. This is now usually the case with hounds too. No pre-launch growl anymore, just the sound once they’re already mid-leap, just like the net. Sound cues are totally borked right now. Less of a bother with dogs though as you can block them if you can’t dodge.

I don’t know what games you’re playing but those screenshots don’t show difficulty level, special condition, whether you know the other players, what weapons and speed buffs you have, etc. And even if they did then any amount of screenshots isn’t changing what I’m experiencing as an experienced player. Maybe you all play at a distance with a smite psycher? Who knows. But generally melee has to happen in auric maelstrom and when it does the AI director can ramp things up in the blink of an eye.

This constant rebuttal of “try different tactics” is getting a bit old. It’s not a military sim where a standard set of tactics are applicable to every match.
All of you suggesting changing tactics must never fail an auric maelstrom - if you say as such then I just don’t believe it. The game has a personality and can get very sadistic. To suggest a normal set of rules can apply to these situations is just not true imo.

Trappers job should be to net stragglers anyway, why are they even in the middle of a 200-enemy mosh pit? To remove the fun in a silent jiffy.

If the game isn’t challenging enough for you without a trapper net bursting out of nowhere in a dense crowd, then something else can easily be changed/buffed but let’s take this element of luck out of the equation.

[RTO]

@MadMartigan

This is very different to my auric maelstrom experiences - where enemy density and spawn rate is absolutely insane.

Well, I play Auric Mael only and everyday since level 200 and now I’m 1000. And that’s how I feel.

@MadMartigan

This is absolutely not true. Sorry but it’s not.

I figure out where they are as soon as I hear them spawn. So may be that’s why the bads happen more often to you.

@MadMartigan

The only sound I often hear is the net firing.

Yes, that’s is enough for me. Hear that sound > 1 sec > and dodge. A bit earlier than 1 sec still works.

@MadMartigan

If a second trapper fires at exactly the same time or just after

If second trapper fires 0.5 to 1 sec after the first, that’s a death sentence. Avoid at all cause. Either by some forms of stagger or your ult. Or avoid putting yourself in that situation in the first place.

It doesn’t mean chit won’t happen but if one is good enough, it rarely happens. And it’s very acceptable just like any other ways we die.

@MadMartigan

This is now usually the case with hounds too.

After the nerf, hounds are now a joke. You can literally push them from 2 meters away after they jump, it will hit even though you’re not even close to it.

@MadMartigan

I don’t know what games you’re playing but those screenshots don’t show difficulty level, special condition

So be it. I see the stats, I have a very good idea about the conditions.

For example, this is no amo condition:

And this is specials transform to monsters condition

This is wave of specials condition:

And this is solo after everybody died and left condition:

But whatever makes you feel good I guess. There are a lot of players who enjoy the difficulty and totally unbothered by trappers.

@MadMartigan

And even if they did then any amount of screenshots isn’t changing what I’m experiencing as an experienced player.

Yeah it will never change. I agree.

@MadMartigan

Maybe you all play at a distance with a smite psycher?

Honestly doesn’t really matter how we play. You don’t really care about how people deal with trappers because you are “an experienced player”. All you care is rework the trappers.

[MadMartigan]

So when you play as ogryn, you experience the same?

You can’t have this experience if you’re zipping around at 100mph with a smaller archetype I’m sure. That is not the only way to play, despite meta gatekeepers on the forums. Ogryn is literally meant to be getting stuck in with heavy wide swings on big crowds. It’s hard coded into the skill tree unless you’re a ranged oggy.

@RTO

I figure out where they are as soon as I hear them spawn. So may be that’s why the bads happen more often to you.

But hearing them spawn means nothing in auric maelstrom - as it’s basically constant. Their spawn cue, if it actually plays, can sometimes be minutes of delay before they get to you so it’s irrelevant anyway as another trapper will be on your case and a new one will be about to spawn at any given cue. They are that regular now. It’s safe to assume that we all now assume there are trappers at all times so spawns mean nothing. We are all always hearing for trappers at all times, and the net firing is now the only sound that’s usually played. This is usually fine and I can dodge in many situations with the exception of when a big horde battle is going on and a net suddenly appears from nowhere and without warning. That’s the bit I want changed, along with nets firing through huge amounts of enemy hitmass that blocks players in their tracks. It’s just not sporting. It’s cheap.

People suggesting to “not get into that situation” by “not melee a horde”… Is maybe the most ridiculous mental gymnastics I’ve ever seen on these forums. Maybe I should not bother taking out the 6 crushers for my team, which I can do usually without taking damage due to my constant dodging, because if I do that then apparently I’m being “selfish” and somehow not playing the game ‘the right way’ ‘incase a crappy silent trapper with magic net shoots through all 6 of them’ . I’ll just avoid all melee combat because having zero enemies within my sphere is apparently the only way to avoid cheap, cheating trapper mechanics.

We should avoid fighting hordes and hope they just disappear.

Someone on the team has to take some risks whether it’s you or someone else. Someone has to. Usually that falls on Ogryns which is fair given their Toughness and the fact that hitting enemies is actually their lifeblood. But when a tiny groaner can stop an Ogryn outright then yes when fighting a horde - it can present a lot of movement quirks and restrictions. If none of you are going to fight hordes for fear of being trapped then that’s a lot more fun being sucked from the game than I even suspected.

I use my ogryn like a knife zealot. I dodge and slide everywhere. I even dodge almost every single time I charge my heavy attack, which is almost every attack. I even dodge to get a wider sweep on my heavy attack to clear more enemies. It works really well as it boosts hits as well as avoids them. I am no stranger to playing light footed, even with an Ogryn. It’s my entire playstyle which is why I feel so damn cheated by this trapper behaviour - which has been amplified by their now ludicrous spawn rate since machine god update. Before that there were less than half the spawns there are now - it was much less an issue as it was nowhere near as common.

[MadMartigan]

@RTO

Honestly doesn’t really matter how we play. You don’t really care about how people deal with trappers because you are “an experienced player”. All you care is rework the trappers

You literally just explained your entire stance on not changing them. You are not affected, presumably as a zippy ninja meta, so you don’t want them changed.

The irony being that if you and all the other “experienced” players never ever get trapped then this change to their hitmass cheat wouldn’t affect your game anyway.

[RTO]

@MadMartigan

So when you play as ogryn, you experience the same?

No, Ogryn is the only class that I don’t play because of the lack of fluidity. I dislike the design of the class. All oterh classes I have are 200+. I can’t say much in that perspective but if that is your argument and most experienced (lvl 300+) Ogryns agree that something needs to be fixed. If that’s the case, I rather have FS improve Ogryn than nerfing the trapper.

@MadMartigan

But hearing them spawn means nothing in auric maelstrom - as it’s basically constant.

That’s I think is the difference between you and other players who are comfortable with the sound cues.

@MadMartigan

the net firing is now the only sound that’s usually played. This is usually fine and I can dodge in many situations

That’s good.

@MadMartigan

with the exception of when a big horde battle is going on

I’m not going to act like I know your situation 100% but judging from my mistakes when I get trapped, the problem is I don’t want to break the pattern or prepared to break the pattern when that happens. I should drop anything, I should sacrifice my hp to dodge a net.

You may argue “but I can’t take a hit if it’s a crusher or mauler.” Well you gotta figure it out yourself. I know my weapons and moves that allow be to survive in different situation.
I know what distance will make mauler stand still and attack, what distance will make a mauler walk while charging overhead. I also know that if a mauler walking while charging overhead, is the moment they have the least stagger resistance and can easily be stopped by a simple melee push (doesn’t matter what weapons you’re using).

End note:
I don’t play Ogryn so I’m not trying to speak for you. But in my experience with all other classes, I’m totally fine with trappers.

[PauloEmilio]

@MadMartigan

People suggesting to “not get into that situation” by “not melee a horde”… Is maybe the most ridiculous mental gymnastics I’ve ever seen on these forums. Maybe I should not bother taking out the 6 crushers for my team, which I can do usually without taking damage due to my constant dodging, because if I do that then apparently I’m being “selfish” and somehow not playing the game ‘the right way’ ‘incase a crappy silent trapper with magic net shoots through all 6 of them’ . I’ll just avoid all melee combat because having zero enemies within my sphere is apparently the only way to avoid cheap, cheating trapper mechanics.

We should avoid fighting hordes and hope they just disappear.

More trapper simps need to read this paragraph. This is gold.

[MadMartigan]

@RTO

You may argue “but I can’t take a hit if it’s a crusher or mauler.” Well you gotta figure it out yourself. I know my weapons and moves that allow be to survive in different situation.

That isn’t even an option in many circumstances as an Ogryn, or actually relevent whatsoever. Aside from this particular trapper hitmass cheat, I survive pretty damn well against any and all enemies (except demon host). Even the Now-brutal-AF buffed flamers are not killing me. Knowing weapons and moves is removed from this particular equation.

The situation I describe, which is common as a melee ogryn, is that a net fires, we hear it without seeing it, we then have a split second to instinctively dodge but there is no time to evaluate direction because the net is already on its way. We have to choose left or right. In a battle, any enemy, even smaller than an Ogryns arm, will 100% block any ogryn movement. We didn’t postion ourselves away from the crowd because the sound cue of trapper loading the shot no longer exists so there was no warning. It’s just BAM netted because your 2 tonne ogryn couldn’t move a tiny groaner after reflex dodging into them.

[RTO]

@MadMartigan

Maybe I should not bother taking out the 6 crushers for my team

And no, you shouldn’t if it means you’re going to get trapped. I don’t understand why people care so much about how other ppl might call you selfish.

There are some players who always blame when they die (and you not dying with them). I never care.

If you have to take a break from Crushers to deal with trappers and your teammates die, that’s their problem, not yours.

[PauloEmilio]

@RTO

If you have to take a break from Crushers to deal with trappers and your teammates die, that’s their problem, not yours.

Okay so if i’m brawling like 5 crushers and I hear a trapper approaching should I just turn around and run towards my team and let them take the trapper net? I feel like that’s literally the definition of selfish.

[RTO]

@PauloEmilio

Okay so if i’m brawling like 5 crushers and I hear a trapper approaching should I just turn around and run towards my team and let them take the trapper net? I feel like that’s literally the definition of selfish.

I said take a break and deal with trappers doesn’t mean run away from trappers. I kill trappers. But the choice is your, you can be very selfish or you can find a way to keep distance from Crushers while dealing with trappers. Even if you intentionally run away from a trapper, I wouldn’t care. I played with people who are new and want to try Auric Mael a lot and I never expect much from anyone (as long as they don’t blast bursters on me, we’re good).

Moreover, it’s not like other classes only rely on Ogryn to deal with Crushers. Psykers can stagger them, Zealots can knock them(well depending on the wep), Vets can kill Crusher(s) with 1 grenade if they are on top of each other it could be multi kills in one nade. And I almost “never” use my grenade on other mobs but Crushers. So I’m almost always ready.

[PauloEmilio]

@MadMartigan

we then have a split second to instinctively dodge but there is no time to evaluate direction because the net is already on its way. We have to choose left or right.

I disagree with this statement because 90% of the time trappers will come from infront or behind, meaning most of the time if you know a trapper is on their way as an Ogryn you gotta be like “I need to push some heretics out of the way on my left/right so I can dodge” Shoves poxwalkers, net noises, dodge right or left, mission complete

It’s just infinitely more frustrating when its all melee elites and you can’t shove a whole wack of them easily.

[RTO]

@PauloEmilio

I disagree with this statement because 90% of the time trappers will come from infront or behind,

Yes, and that’s why in my second post to this thread I said it’s important to know the direction because it makes it 50% easier even if you don’t see them the moment they fire at you.

[MadMartigan]

@RTO

If you have to take a break from Crushers to deal with trappers and your teammates die, that’s their problem, not yours

A teammate dying is definitely often a problem for the whole team, but seeing as there is now a never ending stream of trappers since the machine god update, I guess the games will be infinite because we’ll never be able to do anything except take care of trappers then.

This is a total different subject and not relevent though.

We don’t have any warning of the trapper attack in the instances I’m discussing, so therefor we don’t need to take a break to deal with the thing we didn’t realise was next to us.

[RTO]

@MadMartigan

We don’t have any warning of the trapper attack in the instances I’m discussing, so therefor we don’t need to take a break to deal with the thing we didn’t realise was next to us.

It’s ok. Have a good night mate.

[PauloEmilio]

I see what you mean, but as someone who craves getting stuck in and wanting to be the frontline stagger power house I just feel depressed knowing damn well if Im not 100% locked in at all times I can get obliterated by a trapper net.

Its not impossible to dodge a trapper net in a melee elite horde, but I’d like trappers to at least interact with a horde a bit better so us Tankgryn players can feel a bit more safe and rewarding if we juke a trapper by keeping a steel wall between us and them, That feels more skillful than just dodging a trapper net fired through 14 meters of carapace.

You’re 100% right I Don’t have to fight all the melee elites and put myself in a meatball but that’s where I personally get the most fun out of darktide, It’s a QOL thing in my opinion.

[MadMartigan]

When do you know they’re on the way if the pre-shot cues are no longer being called?

There are trappers everywhere at all times now so we should just avoid fighting and wait for a net to dodge.

I really don’t see how trappers avoiding mosh pits will affect the game much at all so I’m baffled to people arguing for it. Trappers would behave the same everywhere else.

I’d even be happy if they removed all sound cues aside from net firing, if trappers avoided shooting though dense hitmass. That would be a good compromise and make them challenging. You’d never know when one was coming. Everyone could have a taste of this experience but without the getting stuck against a tiny insignificant enemy.

[MadMartigan]

Yes I also have many successful net dodges in horde battles but I never feel satisfied at dodging them in these situations as it feels to hinged on luck.

Dodging nets outside of big fights makes me feel good like a ninja.