My Hate Letter to Trappers and their Entire Existence

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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I know someone literally just made a post somewhat about this an hour ago, but I feel I must exposit my wows lest they continue to fester within my unholy personage and corrupt my very being.

Disclaimer, this is coming from a player that plays Damnation/Auric near exclusively cause that’s where the fun is to me, and high special count tends to be a way of life. I tend to do quickplay a lot as well as my stamina for this game is a lot larger than most of my friends, so take that as you will.

Trappers feel entirely antithetical to what this game wants to be after all it’s updates, and they make me feel an unholy hate for my teammates in ways I don’t want to feel, and I wish them to be changed for this reason.

It’s bad enough they are clearly fundamentally broken, shooting through walls with hitboxes that for some reason can thread the needle through terrain but also can pass right by me then hit my screen like my big toe wasn’t quite far enough. While also only sometimes having their audio cue’s register and not getting the ‘heavy breathing’ tell hardly at all if ever.

But baring the fixes, the unit just doesn’t make sense in this game to me. A unit that can shoot barely dodge-able, uninterruptible nets through entire waves of enemies at a range that can only be countered by a hot swap to some form of ranged implement just feels so incredibly bad, especially when it IMMEDIATELY halts game play, has no way for the player who got hit to get out of it, and makes you hope to the emperor that one of your team mates has the knowledge and understanding to sprint over to you and hold interact for the 1 second it takes to free you. And you swear bloody murder when they don’t/can’t and a wave that easily could have been dealt with by your holy fervor wipes your entire team because you dared to have the audacity to play the game aggressively.

It just feels terrible, in every conceivable way. And you might wonder ‘why don’t you hate dogs/mutants this much?’, well, it’s because they have counter play. A dog has a narrow hitbox making them more often than not dodge-able, AND can be pushed making them feel that much more like a ‘ooh I screwed up’ moment verses a ‘what the F$%$ game?!?’ moment. And Mutants don’t kill you, they can often LEAD to death, but at least their interrupt, while still incredibly annoying, doesn’t immediately mean you’ve just lost, good day sir. Though I could see there hitboxes lowered…the amount of times that hand baton passes my big toe after a dodge…(not to mention they both get shot off you, making it much less of a risk on your team to free you).

But in any event, that I feel above explains my main issue with trappers. They have little (dodging and hoping the extremely generous trapper hit box doesn’t hit you) to no counter play (being in the middle of a manageable wave but hearing the trapper noise and knowing you are literally just dead, you can’t do anything. This wave you could easily cleave through without losing any health is now your tomb, and all you have left to do is swear and afk for the next 10 minutes), for an effect that is literally the most flow ending state the game can produce. Not only that, but the trapper actively makes it HARDER for your team to actually get you up. Where you the front line tank for your team, forging ahead with your heavy Eviscerator Zealot/Shield Ogryn and making sure your team just has to focus specials and the stragglers? Well you aren’t now, you’re just a wriggling slab of meat and your team just died because you where the tank and the wave’s no longer being held. Are you a veteran, in the midst of your team taking care of what is visible? Nope, you’re the tank now, the trapper just shot you through the wave and you’re hastily hit dodge wasn’t good enough, you’re dead, goodbye.

I could go on, but I’ve exposited enough on my pain. I just feel this enemy type isn’t fun, and need more counter play given to them to allow it more to be on the player, more than the game when it comes to dealing with them. This game has a rather rich slew of weaponry, and an incredible depth in it’s melee combat. But you are actively discouraged from playing it’s melee combat ESPECIALLY as an Ogryn because if you for even a second have an enemy to either side of you, you are just dead. 3 dregs and a trapper? boss monster, you are screwed. You can do nothing. It feels terrible and makes me not even want to play taunt Ogryn or Zealot in general because unless you bring super big dodge distance weapon here that does jack sh$% to the wave, you can’t play the game 50% of the time, and you’ll be left cursing your team mates out for not holding the interact button for LITERALLY 1 SECOND instead of just saying ‘na I got this’ and cursing yourself for not acting on X input right.

I curse all the bad Gun Ogryns and Knife Zealots with a revolver I see in my games that have no wave clear/survivability and get their cheeks clapped on repeat, but at least they feel like they can deal with a trapper…(also I shouldn’t HAVE to feel like I NEED a quick draw weapon and a dream to deal with something I feel, just because I want to use a boltgun shouldn’t mean I just can’t play the game actually).

To provide some actual feedback/solutions, I feel for starters, just lowering/narrowing the hitbox and making them hit allied units with the trap (fizzling on allied units) would go a LONG way to making them feel less bullsh$%. Suddenly the wave can feel like a layer of added protection, instead of like just a reason to get immediately screwed. Also making them aim at the feet of Ogryn or like their waist instead of their head/center mass seems like that would be needed to make this change work too, since they sort of aim up which passes over the wave and that just would make the big man just so sad in his natural element.

Adding a counter would make me big happy too, my only main thought would be either:

  • Make them a bullet, so the dodge state ALWAYS makes them pass by you
  • Make it so blocking in their direction blocks them at the cost of a chunk of stamina or something.

either of those I feel would just make them feel LEAGUES better and make me not just want to run my hand through my monitor whenever I hear them. That combined with the previous change above would be just the best thing ever for me. Would be the main thing besides just outright deleting them from the game XD.

I just want to feel like there’s options available to me with a trapper, like with the rest of the cast of enemies, verses feeling like ‘ohh, if the game doesn’t like me/I don’t have a dodge increasing weapon/a quick draw weapon and CLEAR LINE OF SITE, I’m just dead’. I feel that’s also the most frustrating thing to, the fact the trapper doesn’t need to see me, doesn’t need to know where I am, they can just aim at me through any object and any form of anything and ruin my day. The horde stops me from dealing with it, but it doesn’t stop the trapper, why? A gunner has friendly fire, a reaper to, why not the trapper?

It just, it causes me pain…so…so much pain…and is the one blemish on an otherwise insanely fun experience that makes me so jaded toward newer players, and I don’t want it to, but like

When the game goes from ‘the most fun I’ve had ever in a horde shooter’ to ‘load screen simulator’ with one charge up sound, the crash is so heavy I can’t help but get mad.

And when it’s as much on my team mates for not holding interact as it is on me for getting hit by it…

It makes the games where I’m with good players just that much more noticeable from the games where I’m not. And while that should obviously be the case, it feels like butts being like ‘I could have carried this/done so much more here’, but you can’t, because none of your team mates walked 3 feet to pick you up before you went down, and now you just failed the emperor.

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Noticed two misspellings and stopped reading this tome.

tl;dr:

Trappers suck, fix 'em.

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Yeah I should probably go about proof reading this, this is a ‘Letter’ for a reason xD

BUT yeah,

tl:dr

Please give Trappers a proper counter like dogs and being able to push them, I hate how antithetical to the game they are and it hurts me enough to write to many words about it.

Also narrowing their hitboxes and making them not be able to hit you through the wave/walls would be greatttttt.

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All it would take to fix Trappers is to tweak their nets so that Trappers can’t net you through other enemies or walls, that way they’ll only be able to net players when said players ALLOW them to get too close.

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id like to read all of it, but im soo lazy, anyway the comment above just show the biggest problem about trappers, cause after the update that let u stagger them, they are pretty balanced

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I’ve come across the notion that Trappers are hitscan, and this poses several issues. It would be more reasonable for them to fire a dodgeable projectile, but with hitscan, they can ensnare you with their nets even through walls, leading to unfair situations. It’s quite frustrating.

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Trappers are okay. I mean, yeah, the hitscan thing is annoying when you think you’re round a corner, but then I get hit plenty by maulers in just the same way. Is it annoying to be shot through a wire fence? You betcha. But then I’ve had snipers do the same.

But otherwise - they’re an important addition to the game because they take advantage of a team that aren’t in coherency. And that’s the whole point.

But: is it annoying they can shoot through hordes? Well, no, not really I don’t think. That’s the purpose of the horde - to pin you. Bit like when you get crusher slammed because you can’t dodge due to poxwalkers. That’s why they’re there. Let’s be honest, most T5+ players can solo a horde if it’s just a horde. Horde+special is where the game is at. Physics are iffy I know, but if the trapper just fired a taser dart we’d not feel so reticent about it travelling through a crowd.

My only suggestion would be that I feel it’s a bit illogical you can’t slide under the net, and only a dodge counts. That’d be my suggested change, but that’s about it.

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Sorry too lazy to read all of it. Anyway I think that if you pay attention to trappers, they are quite easy to dodge and this is coming from someone who loves to play with Power Sword. Maybe you should improve your dodge timing?

Saying that there definitely are encounters with trappers that I would call unfair. Shooting through walls should not be a thing. And even though I don’t see an issue with trappers shooting from the horde of zombies and such, when they shoot you from behind the group of Crushers or Bulwarks it really really sucks.

Other than that trappers are actually one of my favorite specials. Unlike mutants who are way too frequent and noisy.

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I used to think like you.

And then I realized that this was never going to change.

So I adapted.

Now I always go on a mission with my throwing knives and I kill Trappers before they can shoot. I actively hunt them out so my teammates don’t get caught either. You are right, this halts gameplay, there are enemies that demand immediate attention before you can progress further. Trappers and Pox Bursters are certainly at the top of that list.

My advice to you when you hear a Trapper:

  1. Remain calm, she is coming for you.
  2. Put your back to a wall so your field of view covers most directions she can come from.
  3. Kill her when you see her.
  4. Resume game.
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Honestly my one and only problem with trappers is that when you compare them to the hookrat in vermintide 2 and smoker in L4D which are both specials that incapacitate you and allow you to be targeted while incapacitated. They are the ONLY special where killing them does not release the person they hit.

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Most elite and special enemies are more dangerous because of hyperdensity issues and them basically ignoring other units hit mass (most of the time) when attacking. This has been an issue in VT games, and its unlikely to go away in Darktide. Is this just an engine / game limitation or a design decision? That would be a good place to start.

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For the Hookrat comparison, doesn’t the Hookrat leave you hanging from the hook while they run off after a certain period of time? Trappers obviously reaches this “My work is done” state faster,ofc

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The hitscan nature of trappers makes these encounters feel particularly unfair. The unpredictability of getting hit even when you believe you are safely behind cover can be aggravating.

The argument that trappers shooting through hordes is acceptable because hordes are meant to pin players has its flaws. While hordes are indeed designed to restrict movement and create challenges, the notion that trappers should effortlessly shoot through them doesn’t necessarily enhance the gameplay experience. It could be argued that the combination of hordes and specials is where the real challenge lies.

The suggestion to allow players to slide under the net as an alternative to dodging is a reasonable one. This change would not only provide players with more tactical options but also introduce a logical and immersive element to the gameplay, as sliding under a net seems like a plausible maneuver to avoid getting trapped.

While trappers do add a strategic layer to the game by punishing teams that lack coordination, addressing issues related to hitscan attacks through obstacles and allowing alternative methods of evasion, such as sliding, could enhance the overall player experience and maintain a better balance in the game.

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If I could pin this/push this to the top forever I would, this is basically every bit my concise pain point that I want addresses without all my belly aching, and why I think them being able to shoot through hordes just doesn’t feel right. No other enemy can do this, sure others can push their way THROUGH the horde to do this, but even gunners will just shred their allies if they start gunning you down in a horde/at least deal suppression to them while doing so.

The trapper just ignores all this, and feels so incredibly bad because of it, while also being inconsistent when it comes to the one way you can deal with them (that being the dodge).

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Yeah, I’ve come to use knives and gone about doing such on my Zealot, and it’s felt a lot better.

But, will still say a unit that demands you ignore your other grenade options still feels silly to me (and makes Martydom needlessly hard to use when I just want to use flame grenade so I get all the pips I want but nope), and still is near impossible to deal with on an Ogryn. Their rock is good, but it gets blocked by the horde, and all their guns are slow to pull out and use. The trapper cares little.

Also these are the steps I use when I hear the trapper,

you very rarely hear the trapper before they are already shooting at you. (at least on stuff like high intensity damnation/auric, because their audio system doesn’t let the breathing come through a lot of the time with so much going on, and all you get is the net and get sad. Poxbursters being exactly the same case and another pain point I have, but they are strictly an audio issue and don’t have other pain points that I wish addressed).

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Agreed. In a nutshell the problem with Trappers is twofold:

  1. Fix audio issues. Trappers and the other specialists are at the top of the list along with pillow-feet Crushers and Maulers sneaking up behind players.
  2. Rework Trappers so as to allow for more player initiative. The hitscan and audio limitations wouldn’t be such a huge issue if the trapped player could do something about their situation after reasonable punishment for messing up. In other words, maybe allow for the trapped player to break out after a set timer? ‘Mini-game’ prompt on screen to break out that functions much like the hacking ‘mini-games’? However it looks, FS needs to rework this aspect, because as you’ve pointed out already every other Specialist already has a window of opportunity to either counter them (Dogs, Mutants), or they are a one and done that also takes out other heretics with them when they are primed to attack (Poxbursters).

Slightly related, somewhat Segway points:

  1. Improve Blades of Faith so the Emperor doesn’t twist and turn in his throne every time a Zealot build can’t pick one of the 'nades because tax nodes. Make them interact with the environment if possible (e.g. catch fire and apply stacks of burning if thrown through flames), speed up the ‘quick throw’ a little and give the blades a more visible contrail. Maybe also change one of the mediocre passive traits in that middle right side section of the Zealot tree to give a buff or reward for weak spot kills of Specialists with the blades.
  2. While we’re on that right side of the Zellie skill tree - Loner Aura needs a rework. It’s a tax node and it’s not even an ‘aura’ as it currently stands. My suggestion would be to keep that slow toughness regen at all times for the player but rename the Aura to something else and also add a 5% attack speed buff to allies in coherency, that way it brings something to the table, it rewards the team for not having ‘Loners’ run off on their own and we can all collectively move on with our lives.
  3. Stealth - brief stagger/daze upon activation on any enemies nearby and a distinct audio cue for the whole team for when an ally uses stealth. Automatically gives a heads up on any potential aggro dump, an extra second or two to react to said potential aggro dump and there’s scope here to interrupt trappers by popping stealth next to them instead of simply having them immediately target the next player instead.
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When you are clearing a horde and this mf shoots his net through the whole crowd in whitch you can’t even dodge.

And usually they walk with flamers.
I know this is programmed pattern:

Crowd > Trapper > Flamer

It is effective but feels so unfair that you wanna rage quit some times and take a break from the game for a while.

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just do a lil dodge to the side when you hear the “gonna shoot web sound” even If you don’t see the trapper.

maybe you have the sound-bug or don’t understand “stamina mechanic” of this game
invest in stamina curio and stamina regen and you should be fine.
also always have a clear path around you so you can dodge to the side.

no disablers in this game are hard you just need to learn how they work and how to deal with them

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You mean in general don’t you?

Number of consecutive dodges and dodge distance is tied to your weapon and mobility stat as I understand it. It isn’t stamina dependent?

Have I got that wrong?

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Nope, you’re right. It’s entirely dependent on what weapon you have equipped, mobility and defense stats (if they are on the weapon). Psykers can also get an extra dodge from their skill tree, but yeah.

Stamina’s only purpose is blocking and running/being in a dodge state while running, and pushes. If you don’t spam your block/push to break said stamina your dodge should never really be effected by it, why I kinda just, didn’t respond to that whole comment XD. But glad you did!

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