Trappers need serious work

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
41

Sometimes this is not about positioning.
Just very recently I had the situation, that I was fighting a mixed horde (Bullies, Crushers, Trashies, some Maulers) they were in a nice chokepoint and I could fight them nicely (with my Ogryn) I hade space to the left, to the right and behind me.
Suddenly I got trapped. Never saw the Trapper, never heard the net-cue (due to surrounding noise perhaps).
Now tell me how this has to do with my positioning. and that happens a lot.
As Ogryn I’m mostly not dodging arround all the time (as Zealot I do), I charge heavies (and with Pick Axes I block-push and charge heavies). There is no way, you can avoid trappers in this situation, and that is just unfair.

Some people could argue this happens with doggos, too. But them you can block-push mid-jump, so you can actually do something if you are fast enough. Not so with trapper-nets.

1 Like
42

It wasn’t. You just said it was because you did not hear the sound nor saw the trapper.

43

Any complaint based on not having space to dodge: Not a trapper issue.
This is a skill issue.

Any complaint based on missing sound cues: Not a trapper issue.
This is a general sound issue.

If you can not deal with a trapper in a crowd of trashmobs, that is again not a trapper issue.

The only legitimate complaint that is actually about the trapper itself, is the trapper being able to net through big enemies, which actually prevent us from seeing, attacking and tagging the trapper.
Although even this would not be a big issue (aside from possibly feeling unfair), since you can still tell which direction the trapper is coming and netting from, if you know that it does not come from the other three directions.

5 Likes
44

I’ve said it before, so I won’t write another blog about the topic again, but I’d like Fatshark to revamp the Trappers (and dogs) so they behaved similarly to the Prowler’s in Aliens: Fireteam Elite, where the Prowler’s purpose as a disabler is to disable you (really?) and finally kill you.

The thing though is, when the Prowler in Aliens: Fireteam Elite jumps you and pins you to the ground, you get a QTE (quick time event) mini game in which, if you hit the right buttons at the right time, you kick the Prowler away and stand up.

This means that if your squad is focused on their own survival and can’t help you and you are caught by a Prowler, you can save yourself by succesfully hitting the correct buttons.

It’s an “easy” change, and I don’t understand why it hasn’t been done, or why Trappers’ function is to end the run if they net you.

2 Likes
45

I agree they are a pain but just part of the game. As long as they don’t bring Friendly Fire. That would suck!!

1 Like
46

I generally disagree with the overall idea of working on trappers.

Freeing someone from trapper net is so fast, its poor teamwork when players decide to kill everything instead of just get trapped player up.

They’re basically a smoker in L4D. If I were to go down the route of reworking the trapper I would say you can shoot the net to free your teammate, or throw a grenade with the penalty of the saved teammate has 0 toughness when they stand up, but then what’s different to the from dogs?

From my PoV its a fair special enemy.

  1. A sound cue.
  2. They have to approach and reach the same distance before engaging.
  3. They have a second sound cue to target lock.
  4. The net can be dodge
  5. can only shoot once before retreating
  6. have a 3 second reload before re-engaging
  7. The do not have melee (do they? IDK)((maybe a shove))
  8. they do not jockey/hookrat mechanic and drag you away (A BUFF (to me) they should have, which I’ve lobbied for in the past)

I can agree here Ogryn should have some advantage , specifically adding the bardin trait from V2(knock back small enemies on dodge)

I agree, A good team will drop everything to pick up a trapped player.

It comes down to kiting, most players feel like once they have entered a new room, they cant go back, aside from a ledge drop. There is always enough room to kite and keep the horde manageable, freeing you up to keep moving!

Agree.

This is where you need to be next to a teammate, the net at the end of the day can only get 1 player.

Tides is always about positioning.

3 Likes
47

The only parts i can agree with is that trappers probably should have harder time shooting trough ogryn sized enemies and that their sounds are still sometimes total bullcrap but other than that many of these complaints sound like skill issues to me.

If you are seriously swarmed so badly in auric maelstrom run that with 4 player party you cannot dodge left/right then you got way bigger problems at your hand. At that point you are as likely to die to an random overheard attack.

1 Like
48

Seriously guys, can y’all stop saying “skill issue” to anyone, anywhere, at any time, and forever please?

It’s something a 12yr old would say and it just prevents any genuine conversation. It’s absolutely cringe AF.

You have no idea how someone else plays, whom they play with, the setup they play with, etc, nor the combat situation which has frankly uncountable possibilities in DT.

A single groaner can block an Ogryns movements outright. So just leave all your ego soaked remarks at the door. As if a player can’t get blocked by an enemy… On auric maelstrom which sometimes has so many enemies that you can’t even see the walls or floor. This can happen anywhere, including choke points and tight corridors. And can happen when you’re the only team member left and trying to save others (must be a sKiLl IsSuE). Or when you’re playing as a crowd clearing ogryn whom, funnily enough, has to get stuck in to the big crowds with wide swings.

Many other people I’ve spoken too have also agreed that trappers have felt different recently and are no fun. Yes they shoot you though walls, objects, giant enemies, any enemies, and anything that’s totally obscuring them. Yes their sound cues are flaky af and the only ones I ever hear now are the sound of the net as it appears through a solid object. You can hit dodge but you won’t be able to if a single groaner or any enemy is stood in the way. Since you have no time to react - the sound of the net is the only chance - you choose a direction to dodge and fate decides if a groaner was there just out of sight or not.

I can hear the trapper laughter usually when they’re running away and only sometimes before they attack but it’s rare, especially as the rawkus of battle is happening against a horde with 6 crushers, 12 Ragers, 5 maulers, 4 reapers etc… All making their own noise.

I don’t get to choose who I play with. I can’t help it if my teammates get downed or run off as I’m engaged in melee. I play with pubs and it’s a total lottery. I like to stick to a squad religiously unless getting a quick lootbox but sometimes you have to just fight and focus on the fighting.

I’m getting pretty bored of repeating all these really obvious points and I’m REALLY bored of having to defend my “sKiLl” level.

Trappers shouldn’t shoot through giant enemies, or round corners, or through dense crowds. If a groaner can outright block the movement of a giant ogryn then they should bl**dy well stop a net. End of.

If you play with friends then I can see how you might not understand my plight. But trappers, in pub games, are extremely unfair in their mechanics at the moment.

If you constantly play with tight teammates then lucky you. Buy a lotto ticket.

49

The problem is that your entire argument is centered around situations that can easily be mitigated by some skillful positioning or play.
Like what am i to say to a player who camps in a corner and is suddenly hit by a fire/gas grenade, then he proceeds to complain that these types of enemies are op when they counter his corner strat? That bombers are op?

Just look at this example

Yes and? If this is the level of your argument against trappers then i could also point out that you could die to many other things than just trappers if you are constantly finding yourself getting stuck by small enemies.

2 Likes
50

You’re right, we dont play like you, and will never know how you come to deal with engagements. Thats why you are given the general idea on how to beat them so you can try to apply it to your game.

But you can.
You can follow those players. Stop forcing yourself into selfish engagements. Try to spend a match following 1-player assisting them in all your capacity. They’re bait and you are the fisher. I sometimes purposely position myself 4th in the group (trailing behind) to see how different the match becomes.

The redundant points are repeated because they are honestly trying to help you, not bash you down.

I also play majority in pubs, only 1 (or 2 HOURS if I’m lucky) are with friends.

The OP title is asking for “serious work” be done to trappers. The only issue being brought up are the trappers net being able to shoot through mass. The solutions people have responded to are do-able without a serious rework.

2 Likes
51

While I agree it is incredibly frustrating to dodge to a side, and a groaner laying on the ground body blocks you and you get trapped, it’s a rare occurrence and is fixed easily enough by not over extending.

As for changes, they had no specific changes in the code. So unless there’s something else that could change them, any feeling about them being changed beyonds that is placebo.

Everyone is saying “skill issue” because it’s something you have to learn to deal with and overcome. Yes posititioning, horde management, target prioritization and staying with your team are all important elements of that. Enemies have to be threatening to make the game challenging.

While I agree that they shouldn’t be able to shoot through Bulwarks or bosses, they need to be able to shoot through every other enemies or they will be basically useless. Having a trapper wait politely on the side while you kill a horde makes no gameplay sense.

2 Likes
52

Guy complains about a problem, while it is clear that his own behavior is/causes the problem.

People who want to help, tell the guy how he himself can solve the issue by changing his behavior.

Guy gets mad about people being honest and offering a solution that involves him changing his behavior.

History repeats itself.
Maybe he will put someone on his block list again.

53

Whataboutism and not even an applicable comparison. Irrelevant.

And yet I don’t, so…?

No it’s patronising. I dodge INSANE amounts of trapper nets successfully because there are insane amounts of trappers now. Many during big battles. I’ve unlocked all penance rewards and have almost 1k hours played. I do not need advice on how to play, thank you. I’m quite, quite, quite, quite aware how to f***ing dodge attacks, both ranged and melee. The gunner buff wasn’t even much of a threat to my melee ogryn as I spend more time sliding and dodging that running.

As I’ve pointed out, it’s not trappers in general, but specifically the areas I’ve highlights. Ie shooting through Ogryns which every one of you seems to agree should not happen whilst simultaneously patronising me with sKiLl iSsUe remarks.

Dear God I’m not even going to respond to that.

Yes I do that, thanks, and I already said in the last post, if anyone would bother actually reading the words, is that whilst I stick to squad like glue, there are occasions when you are forced into full defense or clearance mode. It sometimes has to be done for obvious reasons - risks to entire team etc. Often I have to hunt down the gunners myself (as a sliding ogryn!) because everyone else ignores them. I don’t use VOIP and telling the team you’re just popping off to kill the things they’re ignoring otherwise everyone dies and will be right back in a jiffy - isn’t possible in a time sensitive situation. Obviously! How am I even needing to type this out? There are lots of other similar instances too. I often seem to be the only person on earth who actually uses the auspexes or consoles and those can create sticky situations too if you’re team aren’t covering you.

No it’s not. If there is even a light crowd of 5 or 6 groaners, stood a few feet apart from one another, then that is an impassable wall until they are killed. Not sure what auric maelstrom you’re playing but there’s usually a hell of a lot of enemies in mine. I “bump” into enemies all the time as I am constantly dodging. But I have quick reflexes and adjust accordingly before a melee can happen from that enemy but if you’re engaged in a battle with a bunch of enemies that need to be dealt with there and then (for whatever reason, pick one, they exist) then it can be easy for excess enemies to creep into your Sphere. This isn’t a problem ever as I just dodge away but if a net with no warning comes at me then it’s pure chance. No skill involved at all.

I can go for a whole match pretty unscathed. It’s only this unfair situation of trapper net that almost instakills.

And no, being near team doesn’t even guarantee being saved in time. It’s also a pure lottery depending on team, situation, etc. In almost every single auric maelstrom there is an excess of flamer’s and bombers or instantly appear and spray you non-stop as soon as you’re netted. It’s not always about being near team. This is a very common scenario. As soon as you’re netted every specialists aims at you, or you have 6 crushers beating down on you because you’re an Ogryn who was just killing them easily a second a go before a silent trapper burst a net through their chests at you.

No just you. How many times have I politely asked you to leave me alone and not respond to any of my posts? But you just can’t help yourself can you. Time and time again you simply have to let the world know how perfect you are and how wrong everyone else is. It’s harassment and you’re a bully. You literally can’t help yourself from ad hominen quips, even if you know your remakes are hidden to the recipient. Classy. I’ll ask again - leave me alone. I don’t want your input on anything.

2 Likes
54

Funny, ain’t that exactly the type of argument you made? “There is always groaner in the way when i dodge”.

I guess thats as far as i bother with this.

55

No not at all, and I’m not sure that even makes sense.

My point about being stuck by an insignificant groaner is just to highlight that reflexes are not enough to avoid this issue of being trapped through an obscuring enemy.

And it’s also extremely common (since the enemy spawn rate changes) that 2 trappers will shoot at you at the same time from different angles or slightly staggered timings from similar angles. Usually resulting in skill to avoid the first net and pure luck to avoid the next. Luck is hard to come by in DT though.

56

I really don’t know what to tell you. I’ve personally gotten trapped maybe twice in the time this patch has been out. One was due to sound bugging out and trapper was literally next to me (which i agree the sound is still an issue) and other time was me trying to slap one with ogryn slap and got stupidly trapped by one (idiotic play at hand).

I’l just leave it at feel free to disagree.

1 Like
57

Apologies, my strong arm approach to will you has failed.

58

LOL.
If the trapper can send a net through a groaner’s chest, why can’t I dodge through a groaner?

Fair’s fair. Equal opportunity no-clipping.

1 Like
59

I’m so glad this topic got brought up again so it doesn’t get forgotten. I completely agree that trapper nets desperately need a rework.

My favourite suggestion for how to fix them from previous trapper net threads is still this:

  • The trapper net will knock enemies out of the way as it flies towards the player, and as the captured player is being pulled back to the trapper. Just like a mutant or hound does when they run through a horde. This would allow you to see the net coming and make space for a possible dodge, and it would give your teammates a small window to rush in and save you.
  • The trapper net will be susceptible to enemy hitmass, only being able to push it’s way through a certain number of poxwalkers before it gets stopped. Bigger enemies like crushers will block the net completely.

I believe this change would prevent the common situations that feel unfair to the player while also allowing trappers to remain roughly as threatening as they are now in dense crowds.

2 Likes
60

Might as well question why some puny revolver penetrates carapace but something like bolter only seems to tickle armour.
If you are trying to argue for logic then this is really the wrong game and setting.