Thoughts on Darktide at the 1-year mark

It’s been 1-year since Darktide was released, and I figured it is a good time to share some impressions on how the game is faring.

TLDR
While I would love to unequivocally recommend this game, my overall feeling continues to stand at NOT RECOMMENDED due primarily to the abysmal crafting system (still). If you’re willing to look past the crafting system, absent quality of life features, and the relative lack of content, then Darktide is, at this point, a genuinely fantastic game. Nothing else handles the core combat experience as well as Darktide. If that’s what you want, then the game is amazing. If not, give it more time and check back later.

THE GOOD

Core combat gameplay and level of challenge continues to be phenomenal
No other game manages the challenge, pace, and visceral feel of mixed ranged and melee combat as well as Darktide. There is a huge skill ceiling and the sense of reward for clutching through a tough mission in Darktide is like nothing else.

Talent Tree Rework is (mostly) Excellent
The Talent tree rework to classes from Patch #13 is overall amazingly well done and adds diversity into build options. Fundamentally, being able to mix-n-match different blitz’s, auras, combat abilities, and keystones alongside other talents is great. Presently, as of Patch #15, the Veteran skill tree is a little underwhelming compared to the others, but there are still fun options to be found.

Audio/Visual Design is amazing
If you’re coming for the atmosphere, Darktide does not disappoint. It does an amazing job nailing the 40k / Hive City feel. The soundtrack is amazing. Graphics look good, and performance has been consistently been improving for most players.

Weapon Balance is solid
Weapon balance is finally getting into a good spot, where there are strong builds that can utilize most every weapon effectively. There will always be the “meta” weapons on the top of the pile and niche weapons that don’t see as much use, but variance is getting smaller. Blessings in particular have been reworked for most weapons, opening up more different avenues for crafting.

THE BAD

The crafting / item progression system is an AWFUL, RNG, Casino hell
My overall feeling (and Steam review) stands at NOT RECOMMENDED because of the god awful crafting system. The “locks” that get applied to perks and blessings is a major pain point and makes the entire system of layered RNG even worse. Crafting shouldn’t lead to “bricking” items, it just feels bad. The game desperately needs a more deterministic and predictable way to make progress towards your item progression goals beyond just pulling the slot machine lever more times. I’m really hoping there is a big crafting rework in the future whenever (and if) red items get added to the game. Having a way to get around the locks would do wonders for item progression.

Quality of Life Features are Woefully Absent
The non-combat UI and design of the morningstar hub area is pretty bad. No hotkeys to select vendors, can’t switch characters without a lengthy loading screen process, blessing descriptions are incomplete/misleading, moving between menus is a pain. The list goes on. Thankfully mods, if you’re able and willing to use them, have fixed nearly all of these issues. But these QoL improvements should be part of the core game.

Still no solo play and no ability to choose specific missions
Solo play is still missing. If you want to play on your own and/or don’t have a premade group, you’re outta luck. There are mods to enable solo play, but those don’t allow progression. Players are still subject to the whims of the random mission board. It’s much better with the Auric mission board now at least guaranteeing higher level/intensity missions, but having the ability to just select missions and parameters would be preferred.

Monetization & Dark Patterns
This ties into the crafting system, but it’s clear the underlying game was designed using dark patterns to artificially drive playtime and to feed into the microtransaction shop. Rotating premium cosmetics, in-game currency that obfuscates the actual cost of items, the layering of RNG systems in item progression, Melk’s quests, etc. They’ve improved the game in a few places (added shared currency across your characters, thank god), but it’s mostly still bad. All of this feels out of place given this isn’t a Free-to-play game.

THE UGLY

Limited mission variety
Missions continue to recycle the same set of minigames: auspex scans, hacking terminals, chopping tentacles, moving canisters, and holding out. Moreover, there’s been no additions to the pool of secondary objectives (still just book hunting). Hopefully more diversity in gameplay challenges and scenarios are added in the future.

Mission reward structure is underwhelming
There is no compelling dynamic between taking on additional challenges mid-mission (e.g. killing a Daemonhost, collecting books, other potential “side quests”) and having this translate into a greater reward at the end of the mission (additional items or higher level items, more plasteel, etc.). If you’re playing missions purely for the challenge, that’s basically all the reward you’re getting. A lot more could be done to improve the reward system and tie in better with Melk’s Quests (which are also poorly handled).

Limited Environmental Diversity
Yes, we are in a hive city and this is 40k - but having more diversity in the visual style of different zones would be appreciated. There’s basically grey/blue/dark missions and the sandy/yellow missions, and that’s it. The level design IS amazingly cool if you can stop and look around, but the visual feeling during play is very monotonous.

No story progression or character development
Patch #13 added some new cutscenes as you unlock each different vendor - but there is still not much by way of story. There are no in-game events or activities that provide a sense of purpose or connection between missions. While not strictly needed for this type of game, players coming for a 40k story are going to be disappointed.

No regular seasonal content, special events, or community challenges
Outside of a few small instances, there isn’t a regular cadence of events and special things happening IN GAME to drive player retention and continuously offer players new challenges to work for. For example, having a quarterly season that was a new batch of penances and cosmetics to chase would keep players engaged or bring them back in more regularly.

Slow pace of development and poor communication
Fatshark is a frustrating developer from an invested player’s perspective. Communications are sporadic and often cause more confusion and angst than they address. There is zero long-term sense of what the future of the game might hold beyond whatever is briefly teased for the next upcoming patch. Bigger questions about a crafting rework, new classes, etc. are unanswered. Moreover, Fatshark just moves at a glacial pace. Gameplay elements can be outright broken and non-functional, but despite being acknowledged will go for months without being fixed. It’s too bad really. So much potential gets squandered by poor engagement and low responsiveness.

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS

Darktide is incredible in many ways. Nearly all of the game’s pain points fade away when you’re in the thick of combat and running a mission. Ultimately, it is that experience that matters most - and Darktide provides incredible combat gameplay. But everything outside of combat is an active detriment to the player’s experience. Fatshark nailed the hardest part (i.e. the feeling of the core gameplay) but continues to strike out on the parts of the game that should be easiest to fix.

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I still don’t understand this claim, which I see often. There are progression systems in almost every game, and the one in this game is largely tied to development of your weapons. It’s got a load of friction and pain, and I am hopeful they will continue to work out the rough edges (as they have several times already).

But how are premium cosmetics affected by this? I understand that some people want no progression system built around weapons, and there are surely arguments to be made that the current crafting system requires too much time investment due to the randomness of blessings.

But again, where do the $5 pants come in? Is the argument really that, because people are playing more (to unlock more blessings in this clunky system) their desire not to buy pants will be worn down until they…buy pants that do not help them progress/unlock new play options? Is it because they’ll be playing for longer (aka getting value for their money, like it or not) and therefore will maybe see a new cosmetic they can’t help but resist?

These arguments (which again, may not be yours, but I am seeking to understand) really feel like one of those Step 1. … 2. … 3. ??? 4. Profit! memes. They just don’t track.

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Yeah it lines up pretty neatly with my own assessment.

Every time I recommend the game to people the question I keep getting is “so did they fix the crafting yet?” To which I need to reply “kinda?” since at best it’s only been partially fixed.

There are things that are good. I think since release most of the classes got huge improvements, a lot of weapons are better now, maps have improved as far as complexity and set pieces.

The problem is that the content drip is extremely slow for a GAAS type game, the crafting still is awful with locks, the RNG dependant systems and lack of depth and it feels like Fatshark is extremely slow to address major problems. I mean it was what, over a month before Psyker’s surge staff but was fixed and then an additional week or two before surge staffs randomly damaging limbs was fixed?

It’s a hard sell especially considering the price tag and the fact that the cosmetics shop is not very well done. It’s been several months as well since we’ve gotten a new weapon or variant. Yeah part 2 is coming soon and HOPEFULLY that includes new weapons but we also have no idea what’s in it or how long until the next content drip.

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Pretty much. And I actually do think it tracks. If this was a typical free-to-play type game the grind wall would exist to sell you MTXs to advance progress and also entice you to buy cosmetics along the way. DT wisely avoided implementing such a “booster” system to bypass the item grind. However, months ago people digging in the code found references to exactly such a booster system. Even without that, the RNG systems effectively hooks people to playing to earn money to keep pulling the slot machine lever and inevitably wasting time in the hub (why are there no hub hotkeys I wonder?) to raise the probability that people will see, think about, and buy premium cosmetics. Which is how advertising works, among other tactics.

There isn’t as an explicit 1:1 connection between gated progression and MTX like you have in a free-to-play game, but DT is about as close as you can get to that model without crossing over the line.

EDIT: As I’ve said elsewhere, I could see Fatshark selling “red items” as a premium skin or something that allows you to unlock items and effectively skip the grind and get around locks. Wouldn’t be pay to win exactly, but pretty damn close. And sadly people would probably throw a lot of money towards FS at the same time as they incense the invested player base. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are grappling with how to do this.

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The general problem is the lack of over-time development and shackling to the (honestly terrible) RNG.

It absolutely REEKS of Gacha game mechanics.

You need to either get lucky and find a well rolled base stat weapon at the Armory or roll at Brunt’s Casino to get a good gray. Then you need to upgrade it and hope your modifications don’t brick. Then you need to hope your blessings aren’t trash.

After that you need to roll to a new set of stats OR you improve your blessings OR do 1 of each.

This can result in making and trashing a ton of weapons with no guarantee of forward progression.

Oh you want to try a new build because an update came up and nerfed blessing you were using or you are bored and just want to try a new build? Rev up those slot machines!

Sure you can get blessings but it’s the same problem as before, you need to roll a new weapon Every. Single. Time. This is not even getting into how the exact same blessing on different weapons can’t be transferred (rip Psykers and your individual staffs), the weapon bloat preventing relevant weapons with their blessings showing up in the shop or Malk’s (rip Psyker again) and the continued hell that is trying to get better curious.

Comparing to other games you can generally swap attachments and modifications out to your hearts content. The only real restriction being either a points pool or specific gear on specific slots.

SST Extermination is nice and simple. You level by doing objectives and killing bugs, you get points, you unlock new stuff, Pick your Primary, sidearm, grenade, utility and 2 perks. Off you go, enjoy killing bugs.

Warframe has a great system based on swapping out mods to get the desired effect on a weapon which can be done quickly and easily. Progression is effectively kept because you keep the upgraded mods and move them around. Trying our new builds is simple, fast, and easy. There is grind but I feel like I’m going somewhere rather than going nowhere.

Other games like DRG make it so a gun only has set modifiers that you unlock but you can mix and match each row and eventually further modify with Overclocks to really push min maxing to the extreme.

In general I just want to be able to try new things and modify existing things without having to effectively roll a new weapon every god dam time to preserve a arbitrary lock system which works against their own design vision.

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I hope we can agree that Darktide, in today’s reality, is NOT a game where you buy progress/power. I’d love to see a link on the booster system you’ve mentioned, as I don’t recall anything like that.

I have, however, seen the post from Hedge right after launch saying this:

We haven’t any plans, short or long term, to monetize power. Future careers are still on the cards but they wont be inherently more powerful by design, barring initial balance issues when they go from internal testing to the wider community.

Others are free to continue to claim that FS is awful and predatory and liars, but I don’t see them that way. And neither does Onarm in his epic, oft-reposted comment about Fatshark’s actual issues:

The thing that makes it hurt the worst is Fatshark isn’t assholes about any of this. They obviously care. They obviously listen. They obviously want their games to be great. They put tons and tons of effort into their games…

I don’t see greed in the many free maps for VT2 and now DT, nor in Chaos Wastes nor in the talent trees rework nor in any other way. They set a (imo high) price for purely-visual cosmetics, and people determine if those are worth the cost.

The crafting system, with all its imperfections, appears to me to be an attempt at providing progression-motivated (vs. skill/mastery-motivated) players with more play time alongside the universally-lauded gameplay. I think it is effective in this regard, although far too harsh. It may be off the mark, but without the ability to purchase loot boxes or ordo dockets, I just can’t get behind the idea that it is predatory or anything like a game where you spend real money to buy power/progression.

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Audio design needs work to be honest. The music is great, but determining vertical positioning of enemies by audio is extremely difficult if not close to impossible. The sound levels of certain sound effects are grossly exaggerated. I’ve played games with much better directional audio than Darktide.

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I mean it’s improved but after a MASSIVE backlash at launch. The trick was not necessarily about selling boxes but guaranteeing play time and developing FOMO.

Remember, on launch you couldn’t roll a gray, you were stuck with the shop and that’s it.

It took a stupid amount of time for my vet friend to get a bolter (which he discarded and went back to using the MG12) only for me to luck into it early as a zealot.

What it did was it kept us logging in every day to not even play but to check the store for new stuff.

On launch where was brunt’s? Oh yeah, right next to the cosmetics shop.

Where was Hadron relative to brunt’s? Oh right, the other side of the morning star, past the cosmetics shop.

I’ve brought this up before but this is very much D2 / MMO hub design.

While there has been improvements and while at the moment it’s not leaning into it on launch a LOT of people noticed it including some pretty well known steam curators.

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Can we agree that we are a year out from launch and the reality of what we have now is truly what we have now (and not what we once had or what we may fear we may have in the future)?

Can we also agree that the launch was rushed (and that FS have been playing catch-up since), and that many features we have now (that are in today’s VT2, like rolling a weapon of your choosing) were possibly missing because of the rushed launch?

I don’t agree with this. “Guaranteeing” play time sounds like a nice thing, so long as people enjoy the game. Yes, I’d prefer it be easier and more predictable to gain blessings, but an imperfect system centered around providing some benefits for playing (outside of just playing) sounds like an honorable thing to strive for…when it costs no money additional.

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Yes. Someone, somewhere, said lets shoehorn in the mobile gaming market monetization system and just smear it all over our otherwise awesome product. Which is why we have weapon marks instead of base weapons with attachments and swappable parts, for example. Though I still feel like even with the marks system we should have gotten sights…the arched holo-sight was an an absolutely INSPIRED design and it is a literal crime that we cannot put it on any gun with a rail. I mean that. If I had legal authority I would arrest the person who made that decision.

Also a year later and lights out still exists but most of my guns cannot have flashlights lmao.

I don’t complain about a lot of that stuff because overall MTX doesn’t effect me. I mostly care about balance and gameplay, and that’s what i focus on. I would have been a bigger customer but for the failures in managing the game and the absurdly inflated prices. But then again perhaps i’m not the target market.

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I’ve seen others suggest that the slot-based weapon customization was dropped and was hastily replaced by the marks system. Would this not be (at least?) as likely an explanation for the marks as “let’s shoehorn in the mobile gaming market monetization system (with no way to pay your way out of the pain)?”

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They’re not trying to get you to pay out of they pain, they want you coming back to the game lobby over and over to keep you playing to keep you looking at cosmetics. Its a round about type of solution but its entirely within the norm for mobile micro transactions systems.

Why was the slot-based customization dropped? It wasn’t dropped because it wasn’t good. Maybe because it wasn’t finished at best.

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Yea, I think most likely it was incomplete and then de-prioritized. Maybe there were balance issues besides, I don’t know.

Again, I just don’t get this. The blessings grind is too harsh, I can agree on that. But the underlying game is good, new (free) maps keep coming out, many of us (I dare say you and I for sure) keep coming back because of the gameplay and slowly-accumulating content. Should we damn FS for making such great gameplay because it’s going to keep us coming back and eventually break our wills, forcing us to buy $5 pants?

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I’ve largely left the game alone for 9 months and have been convinced by a friend to try it again.

Glitter has been sprinkled on a turd. Dress it up how you like in that there’s a new career path thing with more nodes and so on.

Still get HitReg issues, Monsters still boring to fight, Hounds still erratic and stupid, and crafting… oh boy.

Maps are samey, rerolling stuff is noticably worse than it was in VT2, plasteel artificially throttled to prevent people getting what they want, no real options to try different playstyles without going through weapon-crafting hell. No way to pick the map you want to play, story is… non existent, and the combat engine isn’t enough (for me at least) to keep coming back. Every time I fire up the game I just get fed up and frustrated by pretty much all of the underlying BS and close it pretty swiftly.

Maybe another year?

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Different people have different psychologies. You and I are the kind of people who look at the root gameplay and say “yeah, i’ll tolerate this BS for that. I might even buy a cosmetic if it looks good.” Lots of people have very different dispositions. I’ll remind you that in the famous stanley-milgram experiment 70% were pretty much fine with shocking a hypothetical person to death because a guy just wearing a lab coat pretending to be a doctor said to keep going. Only like 30% of people stopped or disobeyed authority. I struggle to understand how someone could even be in the former group yet the majority of people were.

I mean this to be illustritive that different psychologies have some pretty different interactions and outputs. I heard a guy say to me in a game that he buys every single cosmetic because he views it as buying art. I’m still dumbfounded about that. But in any case the point is there are people who if you can keep them on the treadmill will be more inclined to make purchases. There are people who love to grind. There are people with tens of thousands of hours in warframe which doesn’t even have very interesting content because they just speedrun and grind like their life depends on it. Its just the way some people are. My assertion is that these kind of systems target those kinds of people by keeping them here and grinding. The fact that the rest of us suffer for it isn’t as important as the requirement to keep the lights on so if a balance can be struck between grind and player counts then the game can keep going. This is all analysis, not judgement btw.

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I appreciate the response. It’s so nice to have actual conversations here (and there’s more than one in this thread)!

And I agree with you: different people play the game for different reasons and derive pleasure from different things. Like the person who considers the skins art (what is art?) and buys them all.

But where I think we disagree is that I don’t think there is a logical thread between the progression-motivated players working within a brutal crafting system and those likely to buy cosmetics.

If the crafting progression system was made 100% deterministic tomorrow, I struggle to see how the premium shop wouldn’t still have all the same issues it does today.

And if content keeps coming out for free, couldn’t the argument that exposure to the game wears a percentage of people down still exist? And then, is that an ethical issue?

The crafting system needs more fixes, smoothing. But I still don’t believe a malicious, greedy hand guided it to where it was at launch, and certainly not to where it is today (or where I hope it will be soon).

Full disclosure - I bought the imperial edition upgrade (on sale), and I’ve bought around $25 worth of aquillas and cosmetics over the year (still sitting on a around 2,000 aquillas i haven’t spent). So I don’t have a fundamental issue with cosmetic MTXs and paying for them.

My problem with the current situation is that they’ve bastardized some of their gameplay systems to drive MTX sales (if you buy that line of logic, which I do) when I’d be more than happy to buy premium stuff just to buy it and support FS. In fact, if the gameplay wasn’t gimped by these systems being conflated I’d be probably MORE likely to buy stuff and support FS because (a) I’d feel more respected/appreciated as a customer (and not feeling like they are wasting my time bricking crafting projects) and (b) the actual game would be better and less frustrating, making me want to play more, not less.

Fatshark has a problem understanding the motivations of their hardcore, invested audience. Or they have the data to show that there are sufficient masses of casual players buying MTXs that they think the current gacha-inspired system works better than just being more direct and upfront.

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I think this was what I was trying to get at and well said.

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<3 Appreciate your engagement as well!

I won’t rehash my thoughts about the crafting and premium cosmetics systems not being connected, we’ll simply have to disagree on that.

I do think the recent average player counts (best ever for a Tide game!) show that they’ve understood many things about their target audience with Darktide and are kinda hitting it out of the park, bringing in a bigger audience than ever before. And that audience seems to buy a lot of cosmetics. This isn’t really an argument, I suppose, just an observation.

But so long as things remain free outside of cosmetics, I have few complaints. My number one complaint (which is indefensible imo) is that they need to add the 100 Aquilas pack yesterday.

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I agree, but I don’t think it’s an either/or situation.

The cosmetic shop has issues IMHO (premium currency, rotating FOMO offerings, etc.) that transcends the actual buying/selling of cosmetics, which could be handled via a normal, respectable store front (put everything up, have items periodically on sale, use real money or at least allow purchasing exact increment of currency, etc.).

The RNG-heavy progression grind inflates playtime in a frustrating manner. We could have a deterministic system that required an amount of resources that matches the statistical average it would take under the RNG system to achieve a given end result. The crafting would be better, but to get everything you might want we’re still talking potentially 1000’s of hours - each of which is creating exposure and opportunity to advertise for MTXs.

I get what you are saying. And in a certain light “playtime is playtime” whether its under a deterministic or RNG-heavy system, and that window of exposure to advertise MTXs can be the same in either.

I’m not sure exactly what guided the design of this system, if it wasn’t intended to feed into an even worse gacha-style system. Fatshark’s own statements were all about giving players choice and flexibility in crafting items thy wanted, etc, etc. What we got, and still have, is miles worse than VT2 and orders of magnitude worse than other similar games (Deep Rock, Payday 2, etc.). It is honestly the biggest mystery about how we ended up with this system, what it was supposed to be, and where it might go in the future.

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