I just wanted to talk about the state of the game and the current overrepresentation of Sharpshooters, featuring you know it: The tried and tested Power-sword.
I can barely go 6 games in a row and not meet anything else than Sharpshooters. In the random que. Im missing playing with Preachers, Psykers and Ogryn’s and it’s really not healthy for the game that one class is so present as the Sharpshooter is.
It’s also feels really bad playing a melee specialized class only to see that a Sharpshooter does it better given they have access to a tool that makes them, simply not need the other classes.
It’s a really ranged focused game so the sharpshooter is clearly desparately needed given it has the tools for the job but it makes every other class left wanting, when compared.
No class really “needs” other classes. Everyone can kill everything, and Sharpshooters frankly are still my worst win-rate of all classes (way behind Zealot/Ogryn, and slightly behind Psyker).
Personally I suspect the Sharpshooter opinion mostly has to do with a player being familiar with FPSes (so pretty good aim) but not with 'Tide games (so pretty bad at melee).
I also think the “class clump matchmaking” bug is a real thing, but I’ve never actually recorded all my games to prove it out for sure. I, like many, will go many games without an Ogryn only to switch to my Ogryn and immediately get at least 1 other in the group (and the same generally holds true for any other class).
So with that possible bug in mind, I do think that since the Warp Charges change one update back Sharpshooters have been much rarer (and like every 6th run won’t even have a SS and I’ll notice the lack of ammo regen passive).
I can confirm that, when i play Zealot i barley see one Ogryn in all my matches, when I’m Ogryn I’m constantly in matches with at least one other. 3 Ogryn squads are quite common.
It would be nice to have some logic to deprioritize players with the same class playing together. Or at least allow me to change my character/loadout when I see what others are.
I play all the classes and all on damnation. And with my Vet it’s always a 50/50 chance of getting to the exit. I do not play with Camo. And i have a really good aim. So i do MY part, without being a burden to others.
But here is the point! That power sword that is constantly under attack by zealot players, does what it does because the Veteran is one of two classes or even the only one, that have no class mechanic what so ever to help in melee situations. And what ever it is that makes zealot players constantly brag about it, would be a case for some psychiatrist at this point. Because the PS got nerfed 2 times now since launch, ONLY because of zealot players constantly DEMANDING it to be as useless as all the other veteran melee options.
Zealots can basically run the immortality build. They can bring a flamer to solo clear whole rooms with up to 100 enemies inside.(And make aiming and/or hitting something impossible for any other class at the same time). But still almost every 3rd day, another zealot main comes to the forum and cries about how mean it is that the Vet has a power sword.
And if just one member of the Team steps out of line and does goofy stuff, or tries out some build that simply won’t work, it is most of the time a death sentence for my Vet. Veteran shoulders are just not made to carry an Ogryn or an Zealot that does not do their part.
Attention here comes the big point to consider: Veteran players have to shoot their guns. They WANT to shoot their guns. But most of the time the CAN’T, because they get attacked by POXWALKERS. Poxwalkers keep Vets from shooting Snipers, Gunners and Dreg shotgunners.
They have to kill these Poxwalkers fast. And since the Veteran has no melee buff what so ever, they have to use what deals with the Poxwalkers as fast as possible. Can the Vet use axes and sword? Sure he can. But he will get chip HP dmg all over while he does that. And sometimes he even gets overwhelmed with the PS. Maybe the Veteran would not have to relay on his PS so much, if especially the zealot players would not constantly run front first 3 rooms ahead to melee down everything solo. And just from time to time come and get that Poxwalkers out of the Veterans back.
At least most Ogryns appreciate a Vet in their Team and come to aid them in melee situations.
Most Veterans share their Special ability via the T3 Ability ‘‘Bio-Optic Targeting’’, So that everyone in coherency can see the shooters too. Some even use T5 ‘‘Frag Storm’’ to make grenades apply 8 blood stacks, without having ANY BENEFIT for them self from bleeding enemies! Everything the Vet has in his kid is to support the Team. In most T5 Situations with only a Veteran left alive, it is a 100% loss. Thats because the Veteran can not withstand constant non stop melee pressure on top of range pressure. The ones that CAN turn such situations how ever, not even grant the Veteran the one tool that keeps him alive in melee fights.
That was exactly your point though, you think zealots are whiny and causing your power sword to get nerfed, and you wouldn’t need a better melee weapon than the melee classes if they would keep every single enemy away from you. But counter point, having the ranged specialist class have the strongest melee weapon is a design flaw. If you want every class to have a role, and the sharpshooters role is ranged combat, then it doesn’t make sense to also give him the infinite cleave / anti-every enemy type weapon. Also if veterans practiced with other weapon types such as the dagger, any of the tactical axes, or even the catachan sword they would probably find that they serve quite well for peeling a few enemies off of you while you’re in the backline
Im playing a sharpshooter alot myself but i do main a Zealot and i want to point out that the sharpshooter does have other weapons for their melee build they can easily use. But quite frankly and fully honestly with you. The community have still not dropped the power swords to try other weapons…
Saying that power sword is the only option you have and you need it is simply not an argument we want to hear, because you don’t need it. You don’t have to match us and outdo us in a melee fight just because we can’t do our job… It’s not the hill we want you to die on.
We need sharpshooter players come to the forum and complain about them not having a good melee weapon → because they dont need it. it’s a game about teamplay punish the players for not playing in a team. Get the Zealots to tank, the ogryn’s to block and the psykers to support whilst the sharpshooter does the damage.
Here’s the thing right, I don’t think the power sword should be nerfed, but I also don’t think the classes currently in the game should have it. I think it should be an exclusive weapon for a melee focused Veteran career. Sharpshooter is a ranged focused career who already deletes threats before they can even become a problem from a mile out, it SHOULD struggle in melee because that is the way the class was designed.
The Power sword is not the strongest melee weapon in game. The strongest melee weapon is atm the Force sword with the Deflector and quell. That thing fends off walkers with fast attack speed and pops heads of specialist with its special.
The Power Sword also has no infinite cleave.
What the Power Sword has, is an attack patter, that does good stagger, good dmg and has the right angle. Axes do good solo enemy dmg. But then you get hit by the walker next to the one you hit, cause the Vet has lame attack speed. The knive can fend off hordes. But without the same bleed/crit mechanic the zealot has, it just means that the Vet dances around double or even tripple the time without actually killing stuff. Some Sword MKs have semi good attack patterns, but in every chain there is one strike down, that lets the enemy slip trough a hit that causes the Vet to take big dmg.
And the Shovel is a dam meme weapon.
I would love to play the Chain weapons on my Vet. I have more then one of them both with 380 and good blessings. The problem is that they both have attack patterns that are to small and that the activation of the special 1: takes to long and gets interrupted if you release the button to fast, resulting in a normal hit that should be a reved. And 2: you do not get hit immune while it bites into a target, AS IT SHOULD BE for a lock on target finisher!
There was a 2 Hand power sword planed for Zealot. Lets hope it never comes. Cause then it would be a weird situation, to see people run around with a weapon, they thought should not be in the game at all.
I’m not trying to pick on you either man, but you were the first person to come in here with that same tired argument, so just let me break this down. When you’re making a build on every other class, you’re trying to cover your bases between horde clear, specials, armor types, and elite threats. Every other class in the game needs to make meaningful choices between their weapons to cover as many of those areas as possible, and with the exception of a couple blessing combos, its not possible to cover all of them. The veteran is only presented with that dilemma on his ranged weapon, because the power sword covers all of those enemies types. But having to make those choices I think is a critical component to the game’s core philosophy. Where does my class excel, and how can I get the most out of it while helping my team and fulfilling my role? Having ANY class have a tool that covers every situation is just kind of lame. I want sharpshooters to absolutely dominate the ranged game, but I don’t want them to also be so good at melee that its the only class you need to bring. I hope that makes sense, and if I’m coming across as picking on you I’m sorry for that.
Don’t know Rick ! I have zealot ogryn and sharpshooter at lvl 30, all full orange with bis weapons and…. My least played is the veteran…. Not saying he is the least powerful but heck, it is the less fun to me… much more enjoying ogryn with BBMKIII/bully club/Rumbler/GG/new kickback or my zealot antaxMKV/bolt gun !!!
Never have I been in a situation in this game where my team’s Sharpshooter was doing well and I thought to myself “You know what, I really wish his arsenal would be weaker.”
It´s not that kind of ranged focus game. Ofc a Vet will pewpew all day long, but Ogryns / Zealots have gapclosers and other stuff to get closer and force range units into melee mode, which makes the game way easier in my eyes.
Psyker can do the with his ultimate or even a force-sword with deflector.
I don´t think “Vet does all better” explains it correctly. Vet is just overstated and has access to the most broken weapons. I personally feel useless when a Zealout uses his flamer aswell so… This needs to be fixed.
But overall my personal issue is, that A LOT of those Vets just don´t give af about you. You rush in, want to do your job etc… and they just don´t follow or give any decent backup. They still stay somewhat behind being like “pew pew, why is that stupid Ogryn / Zealot in the way”.
And playing Psyker without Ogryns / Zealots often feels like… “Ok, this will become boring and stale with the 3 Vets just sitting in the back and shooting.”
The best and fastest rounds are those, where poeple jump in together. It´s cool to have a class focused on range, but it doesn´t suit “tide-games” that well when poeple just sit in the backline and playing this one like it´s a core-shooter… it just isn´t.
No, the powersword alone does not make veteran better at melee than the melee classes. Veteran is the only good ranged class since psyker is so weak, so it makes sense to have a lot of veterans.
And there is the problem. Rush in is in 90% of the time translated to ‘‘The class with the highest stamina regeneration and over all movement speed, outruns the class that gets its stamina drained by its second usefull ability while aiming’’.
Sprinting is not the way a team should move constantly in a horde shooter. Stamina is needed for blocking and many other things. Better to move dynamic and at normal speed, then rush head first, just to then have a mauler and 2 shotgunners drop behind you from a ledge to open fire at the teammates with slower movement speed behind you.
It does seem to me like you often get paired with others of the same class you’re playing. Of course I can’t prove it statistically, my experience is purely anecdotal, so make of it what you will. In any case, matchmaking still feels like it could be improved.
On the whole power sword debate, it is probably a bit too strong. Try playing a few games on damnation and notice how often a veteran runs something other than power sword. It’s almost never. I don’t mind it being a good horde clear weapon, but it should have more pronounced weaknesses to compensate.
