It doesn’t matter. I was kicked from Champion because some idiot said that I can’t play it with my BH level 24, as I’m missing my last talent. My 540 Hero Power were ignored completely.
Completely and utterly disagree with you, on champion you do not need the 20 talent at all, if you have charms, trinkets, or necklaces that benefit you via healing items then it shouldn’t be an issue. Let’s also not forget in pretty much every run there is an elf, an elf that is likely to use the ape health regen…
It also feels as if you have a very high opinion of yourself in the sense you come across as an elitist and the type of person who would do raids on WoW for progression only… At the end of the day if someone has enough power level that is deemed fit for champion runs then they have the given right to do the damn run, if not for in game experience and loot, but knowledge of how champion plays out.
The idea of champion is to avoid taking damage anyways via blocking, push backs, and dodges, so if someone has those skills and are able to use them then there is no issue. In fact I’ve had more success runs with people that are lower level than that of maxed out level players.
This game isn’t an RPG in the sense that levels mean EVERYTHING and are the be all end all, levels in this game dictate what weapons you can craft, the damage you deal, and as you say talents. If someone is lower level but has a decent and sufficient power level then who gives a crap?! So please, stop with this elitist attitude.
I wholeheartedly agree with you dude, you are totally correct and I commend you for saying as such. Doing vet time and time again is a ball ache because the experience given is actually very little, but if you do champion and are capable of doing so by knowing tactics, then it’s worth doing… The experience is way better even if you fail, and if you succeed well you get loot that is better and gives you the means to repeat champion runs more easily.
exactly. op doesn’t even say what he means by “low level” or what he thinks the level lock should be. Should it be 20 just so you can get temp health? it IS possible to survive champ/legend without temp health (you don’t even get much temp hp on legend anyway, and heal from bosses is better for non-dps) is the point, but it takes skill and a lot of knowledge of the game and teamwork, that people have who have leveled up multiple heroes are more likely to have than people on their first 30.
I’m not even stroking me ego here, I wouldn’t consider myself in the top 50% of legend players. my ranged aim in general is terrible. but I know the maps and skills and enemies, and I work with my team, so we generally have a lot of success. IF I CAN DO IT then anyone who puts the time in can too
The problem seems to be that players will often play a single hero until they are level 30. At that point they may have 450 Hero Power on once hero and 150 on their others. They can then join Legend difficulty with 150 Hero power and think that they will do fine, since they can beat it with their “main”.
On the other hand, they may assume that someone at Hero Level 15 will have half the power of a level 30, even though they might also have 450 power (if the player has played other heros).
The difficulties should perhaps be gated per-hero. Veteran difficulty might seem boring to most that have played enough to join Legend, consider that most players that have level 1 heros will still greatly under-perform in Legend with those heros regardless of their experience. Remember it isn’t just damage numbers that scale, but also cleave etc.
What I’m trying to get at is, playing on a lower difficulty with a level 1 hero isn’t going to be as trivial or as boring as it might seem.
As far as getting kicked for being low level goes - why are hero levels even shown when hero power is the real indicator of power?
My team earlier: ‘Level 10? You need talents at least to do champion.’
Me: ‘my power rating is probably higher than yours. And skill makes this game.’
After a fuss was caused it was started anyway.
My team after the match: Well I take it all back you proved us wrong.
Yeah, maybe because I practically solo’d A chaos spawn on champion without taking a hit because two died and our slayer had 1 health.
Maybe we stop these posts. I’d rather play with a level 1 with a gear score who knows what he is doing than any level 30.
Many times said but the Level only indicates how many Talents you have, the Powerscroe(stupid thing) says nothing at all. By the way why is 30 anyway the Cap, your still lvling up why must we have 30 (+11) instead of 41.
For every level you have, you get 10 hero power, and that is capped at level 30. How effective your attacks are depend on your hero power, so level does tell more than just the talents available, it tells the minimum hero power the player has on the character.
Champion is easy. There is no reason to level lock it. If it would have been levellocked, i wouldnt have leveled any other char except my first. When I leveled my 2,3,4 and 5th hero, we used to just speed run champ as fast as possible just to get levels quickly. We even started to make fun of healing, potions and bombs, throwing them in the sky, got hit by one Slaverat? Kruber, you must heal! FF each other to death just bc they were faster picking up supplies. So please OP, dont make such suggestion. Anybody should be able to carry champion, so you shouldnt be bothered by low levels
Like People with Power, they must be reasonable Man, because you have the Power doesn´t mean you can exploit its full Potential.
Private games probably shouldn’t have any gating at all anyway (perhaps just the host). A lot of the time people will just ask their low level mate to leave whilst they start the game, then get them to rejoin.
Joining someone else’s game, and Quick Play needs to be gated by hero power for the hero you are using. The tricky part is obviously stopping you from choosing a low power hero if the rest are taken.
this. it’s way more important to DO the right things, have the right positioning, learn to avoid all damage, spread out your encounters, don’t overpush, look out for teammates, stick together when necessary, have a trick to handle every special etc, rather than a level 30 sienna who just focuses on blasting things but can’t handle 3 rats in melee, or a level 30 elf who ignores the person getting stabbed by an assassin right next to her, or a level 30 bardin who facetanks a chaos patrol and dies in 5 seconds etc etc etc.
i had a facepalm moment yesterday on my legend run when we were hiding from a SV patrols near the edge of detection, but my bounter hunter decides to shoot one of them in the face.
it’s stuff like that that makes me go =(
Than with level 1 who has no idea what is he doing and is just leeching legendary runs, because the power level says they can.
Reality is that most of the underleveled/geared people are not reliable, hey not even the properly geared are good.
But I will rather play with 600 power level and lvl 30 who can oneshot bosses with his light attack spam and then die because he didnt notice half wave standing behind him, than with level 20 who can go run with 0 damage but it takes him 20 minutes to kill stormvermin and single unlucky hit that even with skill he couldnt prevent will send him to the ground.
And in opposite situation you have much bigger chance that immortal level 30 ironbreaker will save you from ground, even though he probably doesnt even understand why is he immortal.
Adding better gear check on quickplay would be only good and noone gets hurt, even now most of the problem come from flawed system that you can unlock legendary once and then join in with level 1.
i can assure you, the player that runs with 0 damage taken the whole run, will not take 20 minutes to kill stormvermin, for sure.
in vt1, damage avoidance was the mark of a great player, it hasn’t changed
Damage avoidance wont kill bosses, thats what changed in V2 .
In V1 it was ok to go Cata on level 1, you could get reds from first roll, bounty from anywhere, and trinkets werent “that” important.
Now half of your stats come from being level 30, and say what you want talents are much more useful.
And again the number of good people is absolute 0 in quickplays, I consider my friends to be very good players, if we wipe once per night and that being usually my fault, that may be too much. Thats 3 (4) very good players, they never played single game outside of our premade. They either play solo or with premade.
These are the people you are talking about, they dont care about people getting kicked from champion, they dont care about people leaving when they see host is underleveled.
And they wouldnt care if legendary was locked behind level 30.
Then you have people like you and me, good enough to care about this, but different opinions.
And then you have sea of people who will be untouched by this change or are cause of this problem.
Not exactly cause, I am not blaming them, but they just dont fit the category of level 1 carrying legendary runs.
Completely different topic here.
System is flawed.
Add 1-2 more difficulties, make the 12 3 45 middle one give you 300 chests and 300% XP.
Then have 4 5 with 0% XP bonus (or very small) but allow them drop reds and cosmetics, with 4 being the “casul” hard and 5 the actual challenge.
Difficulties 1 2 are for leveling up and getting at least some gear.
3 would be locked behind level 15 so you have 3 talents and all 3 careers and you can start enjoying the game.
4 and 5 would be only for end game.
Much better, more logical and no problems. In short just copy V1 system.
yeap. my opinion is that, the difficulty levels are already gated with minimum power requirements. levels after that, don’t make a difference if the player is bad. even if you lock legend difficulty to level 30, you’re still going to wipe if players don’t know how to survive.
i’m open to adding more difficulty levels, though that would mean devs would have a crazy time trying to do more balancing lol
I’d be happy with a minimum requirement of being level 20 for a quick play Legend game. Fact of the matter is I don’t care how good you think you are, you are going to get hit, and bloodlust will ease the burden on the team and make the healing situation easier to manage. It matters, regardless of your “skill.”
I think this discussion is neglecting one important point, which requires us to disregard skill for now: low-level characters can easily have more power than high-level hosts.
Right now, I have 4 lvl-20 chars and my lvl-30 main, but for the sake of an argument, let’s suppose all my alts are level 15, as I have been playing Champ on them from level 12 onward. At this point in time, my item power levels are maxed out and I have crafted good equipment. 3/5 slots just plain carry over across all chars, and creating two weapons takes very little resources. With this, at level 15 I would have achieved ((300 * 5)/5)+(15 * 10)) power, which is 450.
Many of my friends have level 30 chars and play champion, but are still sub-200 on all items. They would, then approach 500 power.
How much difference does 50 power make? Not that much, apparently. I have tested it out by swapping out equipment just now, and the difference seems to be 200-ish damage (on a charged attack bodyshot against non-armored targets, non-crit, Bounty Hunter, Rapier). Now, the real question is: Is this a breakpoint? It can be. But even if it’s not, the difference in the killing speed would be one strike, and not 20 minutes.
With that out of the way, let’s talk talents. The level 20 health regen is the game equivalent of training wheels on non-heat weapons. If you damage taken is low, it makes no difference whatsoever. I have opted to disregard the meta and use boss kill health on all of my characters. Health on kill/crits is not mandatory: it teaches you bad game practices and breeds complacency. The level 25 talent can indeed be a godsend, but, realistically, anything can be handled without those talents.
Yesterday, I was pubbing on champion with my level 20 Huntsman Kruber. After a few good games with one level 27 and two level 30s, we went on to do Into the Nest heroic deed, Champion, Harder Better Faster Stronger, Nurgle Rot, Abduction. It went fine, we completed it easily with full books. After that I got another heroic deed, and this is the kicker. Halescourge, Champion, Harder Better Faster Stronger, Vanguard, instant death. We still beat it and never were my stats worse than those of my high-level teammates. This, on a non-meta, alt char with no health regen or level 25 talents. By no means is this a way of showing off: this is an example to show you that the level lock is a hilarious idea and the notion that level actually makes a difference at high level play is cute at best.
Disagree. You can play an entire game without being hit.
You’re one of those discriminators making the experience of this game worse. And you’re a bad player, no matter your own skill. I agree there are too many leechers, who people have to carry and teach them the game. But this is a co-op game, and you are lacking sense for that.
Huh, you’re the kind of guys that kick people from champion because you see “lvl 15” maybe you’re not taking into account that people might have a higher item power and be at 450 hero power?
That’s fairly enough for champion runs.
I did many champion run at lvl 5 when i was leveling up other characters to reach lvl 30 but I was already maxed out with item power.
People kicking other people without a word and not understanding the game mechanics are a nuisance to me. Talents are a plus but you can do without them without going “full ranged re*ard” and unlimited ammo.
It would be nice to see the hero power of each teamates tho. But please, don’t focus on the level of hero, it’s not the only thing that matters.