The Great Weaves Feedback Thread (Season 3 edition - NEW AND AWESOME ! 50% DISCOUNT ON NEW REPLIES)

120 done at the time I write this stuff (so @Mattie don’t ask :p)

So new weaves and new season (+ copying some stuff from last topic that didn’t really changed) :

  • Weaves are in a far better place balance wise (between themselves). This time, the 40,80,120 is in a weird place though with not a lot of enemies compared to the others weaves. The 100th one can be a bit difficult (but not nearly as difficult as some from s1 :p)

  • No “timer” issues, even if we were close sometimes. It’s great on that end.

  • Weaves still require probably too much aoe at the moment.
    Which mean sienna is… again… mandatory and melee is still “kinda weak” because of the huge number of enemies constantly (and the lack of cleave, of course).
    Same issue than the 1st and 2nd season on that part.
    And it won’t be solved if you don’t reduce the numbers (or limit it). As the damage reduction and stagger resistance do still play a huge role here.

** On various change of difficulty **

  • Thanks for removing “bomb rats”.
  • I’m not sure that the totems in beasts weaves shouldn’t respawn anymore.
  • I do think though that the issue with all your new ideas (as it can be on challenges themselves) is that you go too far on them easily :
    • Bomb rats would have be 1 or 2, it would have been better than “let’s make spawn a dozen of them at once”. Also, if you can push them before they explode, it should be pushed “far” and explode. For melee only career.
    • Tzeentch twins modifier (which is not weave related, but that’s for the example) is great on elite. Less interesting on small rats.
    • Beasts totems respawn would not really be that bad, if they wouldn’t respawn in a mn while you faced boss + overcrowded hordes of elite. So the issue is not that they respawn. It’s that the rate of their respawn is too fast for the situation the player is put in. Removing that respawn entirely does adress the wrong issue =p

Winds themselves :
I think the biggest issue here, is that the different winds finally don’t really change how you approach them. Something which was your main goal at first.

So each wind was intended to be tackled by differents careers or differents loadouts.
But in practice. Due to the stagger/damage resistance, and the crowded part of all that. The wind effect itself is kinda ignored. Your team takes what it needs to be able to kill bosses, waves of buffed elites, and numerous specials, and/or rush through the objectives. If it’s weave of death, or weave of fire, it doesn’t change things.

I do think that the effect should be probably more game changing, but also not “only” an hindrance. So you can play with the effect to help yourself (the best wind effect being heavens for this “type” of play and counterplay).

The meta gameplay (aka pull the next batch/map and turtle because YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE) is not that engaging compared to let’s say “hypertwitch” that forces us to adapt fast. The latter being more interactive, therefore, probably more fun (at least for a good portion of weavers I know).
The scripted thing do kill a bit the replayability, if the meta was more engaging.

  • Weaves of death are better now than s1. Thanks to the change. Issue is we now totally ignore the orbs. I somehow guess than speedying the health decay does not really matter since it’s overcrowded anyway.
  • Weaves of beast have now totems that don’t respawn. And again, can be mostly ignored by high end careers/weapons.
  • Weaves of light is mostly “ignore curse” as you’re being os anyway in high weaves.
  • Weave of heavens are still fun. Even if the damage is mostly irrelevant after a while (does not really kill enemies, only stun them and damage them a bit).
  • Weaves of shadow still kinda have the same issues than during s1, but being able to block archers helps. You will still get ranged weapons as you have no other way to face flamethrowers & ratlings anyway.
  • Weaves of Fire now have the infamous “PUSH THAT DOTS YOU” fixed, and it’s great. But again, effect feels irrelevant.
  • Weaves of Jade are kinda less interesting the more you face people. You tend to form a sort of defensive wall with all your people, so you don’t really have to move around, making the thorns less annoying.
  • Weaves of Metal are the most boring weaves with the most boring effect period. The visual is stunning, but having armor on all ennemies just make the “overcrowd” problem worse than it is currently. And therefore, you again rely on meta careers and meta weapons, without any time for a melee to shine (I mean, doing other stuff than “staggering”).

On the Rewards

  • Shillings. Give us SHILLINGS. Before the added hats I had for more than 30 weeks of weeklies. If you plan to add new stuff every 3 months, I’ll be unable to catch back.
  • I do think that the rewards are, again, really poor for the time investment you give. This is a recurring issue in the main game as well. And I do think that even green, blue, yellow, choose-your-color glowing illusions or new recolored skins could help a lot.
  • IF it’s come cycling back one day, you could probably retroactively add frames for Season 1. IF you don’t want to cycle them or don’t want to adress that cycling right now, you could also offer SHILLINGS instead.
  • Could be more funny stuff, like recolored flames for your flamethrower, or a red weapon with “fixed stats” that you can’t reroll but get a unique look (more work though).

Quality of Life Stuff

  • Can you please count the 40 first weaves as completed in the challenges as well when you have them completed. It’s more boring to repeat them than it looks. Especially when you have done 41-120, there’s little incentive to go back to 1-40. Kinda like the fact that when you complete legend things, it does also complete the veteran/recruit thing.

  • Quick play weave would probably be a good idea if you didn’t require again to play ranked for… 120 weaves. Which kinda make the focus shift away from QP. Despite the 40 QP Frame. (which will be done in recruit anyway, as it’s faster)

  • On the “Season 1” & “Season 2” challenges. Could that tab disappear if we can’t progress them anymore ? There’s currently no point to showing us that we didn’t farm 40 weaves for a commendation chests, so it kinda serve no purpose to show that tab. So either allow us to tackle season 1 challenges (why not could change a bit, and allow new players to not see 5 seasons of nothingness in the challenge tab when they come for Season 5), or make that tab disappear.

  • Still not progressing the “100 games achievement” even in champion +. I know it’s probably decided, but that’s seriously hindering the progress here. Weaves are not that faster to complete. I think you really should reconsider this.

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I think putting new skins or customisable cosmetics behind weaves is possibly one of the worst choices they could make, full stop.
People have been asking for stuff like that for years now, locking it behind a pricey DLC and a not very popular game mode that is really inaccessible to the vast majority of people would be insane.

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Beating a dead horse, then?

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Not really weaves related. If people don’t want to pay for a dlc that kinda their choice. It would only add content to this dlc, making the price a bit more “fair” (and if the game becomes more interesting, it will be more popular)

Well if its going to remain seasonal thing then its really going to need something each seasons that draws people in to try and complete each of the seasonal objectives. Weapon illusions and other skins are the most obvious way to draw people otherwise people such as myself (who did to upper 80:s in s1) won’t be bothered to play it ever again.

However it is totally different debate if weaves should be accessible in some form by everyone so 1 dlc won’t lock out everyone from getting the content but currently i see no reason to waste tens of hours in game mode which i’ve already “completed”.

I agree with most of what Froh said in his OP.

For me the worst aspect of the ranked weaves is the sheer number.
I’d have seriously preferred 8 FoW kind of maps, one for each wind. Challenging, but way less time consuming.

On a side note, I disagree that people will do all qp weaves on recruit because it’s faster. I’ve been doing them on legend and found a few pubs. They are fun and challenging, and the reward is more or less that of a book-less cata run (which isn’t the point of cata, I know, neither it’s here, but it’s still nice to have)

As someone who hasn’t played a weave since literally the day they released until this week, the current state of them is 1000% better than S1. It’s honestly like a breath of fresh air to play different missions & objectives.

However;
a) Why no bots in ranked weaves? Or quickplay for ranked weaves (wasn’t this in the game previously)? I sure as hell am not going to find anyone to play these as a “new player”, because they’re all tackling 80+. I’m not going to be able to true solo them without some stinky cheese.
b) It feels like a bit of an insult to all the asset designers that put so much work into the skins for weave weapons that they’re still locked in a gamemode I imagine less than 5% of the playerbase touches. Something like “slay x enemies with x” or like GK’'s “do this thing with weapon x” to unlock in regular missions would be appreciated.
c) Weave completion should reward at least a soldiers reward, but probably a generals, and bosses should drop loot dice. I haven’t opened a chest in literally a year, but given that weaves are typically harder than an equivalent normal mission, I can imagine one of the reasons nobody plays weaves is putting allll that effort in just to see that sweet 400 XP & commoner box.

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That’s absolutely weaves related though, I think adding that content to a gamemode people don’t like and can’t access without a premade and a decent level of skill would be incredibly stupid. The backlash would be huge.

If it was “complete 20 QP weaves with a weapon to unlock the weave skin” or something maybe, but as rewards for high weaves is just insane.

I think they should just recognise that the mode isn’t very well liked, and not sink a bunch of extra desired features into that mode in an attempt to force people to play it. It’s really not going to work, and it will just make everyone else who wants those features angry.

Other games have t500 leaderboards without the need to give everyone fancy unique skins and toys, overwatch has just given a frame and the equivalent of some shillings every single season now, and it’s much bigger than vt.

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Well that’s your opinion. I think developping a content to a mature point is actually a pretty good idea. Behind a dlc or not shouldn’t change that. If they were to add new weapons to Grail Knight (as kinda discussed already), thoses weapons would also be behind the grail knight dlc, and it would be perfectly normal.
If this mode isn’t very well liked, then they’ll have to overhaul it, in order to make it like, not abandon it to be honest. This post is for the overhaul.

Now on your “leaderboard” point. I didn’t say thoses skins have to be linked to the leaderboard. I actually also think it should not. Like, having a big bunch of recolored where you gives one each 2/3 QP Weaves for example.

Well i guess that is one way to look at it but then again the core is already developed and i personally believe with some tweaks it could be reasonable game mode. Obviously “forcing” people to play any kind of mode for rewards can be debated but right now there is absolutely no reason other than i guess “prestige” and considering this game is not a competitive game at its core anyways its not really much to go for.

When it comes to other games i really have to disagree. Something stupid as a weapon charm gets people to attempt platinum/diamond every single seasons in R6 Siege. League of Legends has gold exclusive and challenger specific rewards and most of the people i have played with attempt at least gold. PoE Has seasonal exclusives etc i could go on but i think my point came across already.

Yeah if you’re just talking unlocking a weave weapon skin every few QP weaves I don’t have any issue with that. Doesn’t take any more effort, doesn’t require people to deal with premades or lock people who aren’t super good out of content we’re sorely missing, would be fine.

New skins or content should just be given to the playerbase though, we really don’t have anywhere near enough of it to be locking it behind stuff people already dislike.

I doubt they would do this, but they’re not really comparable.

I think a weapon charm or a player icon is pretty equivalent to a frame, myself. PoE has a whole other thing going on that I don’t think is entirely relevant to the discussion, but I have some big issues with their model of game design in general, so won’t get too into that example. DRG gives you a single core, while also making those endgame modes super doable solo by scaling stuff to the amount of players.

Just as they did with every other game mode, this will also remain balf-baked, until they catch up to themselves.
And that will probably be another 2 years, looking and the result of the S3 “fixes” and what still remains, while they stop working on PC for 6 months to work on consoles, while they push out the other 4 careers and the new bunch of maps.
Let’s make it 3 years.

That is probably true but i guess to counter that you also don’t lose anything while playing the ranked mode aka you still gain the in-game currency to buy skins and other stuff while in vermintide its totally split.
Whatever this could go on forever but overall the game mode needs something to make it more interesting rather than other wasted feature.

I don’t think the season tabs should disappear, especially if you completed their challenges. Having those completed were the only season exclusive reward for the first season. The grind to get them all was horrible, and removing them would be a slap to the face to those who actually completed them. Because really, no one did them for the Commendation Chests they rewarded. 600 weave runs for 15 Commendation Chests? Laughable.

Instead of simply removing them, there should be some indicator that they can’t be progressed on (if there isn’t already, I don’t know what those challenges look like for people who failed to complete them). Like how the completed challenges have a banner saying “Reward Claimed”, these challenges could have a banner saying “Expired” if you did not complete them.

Sorry for derailing, but you seriously completed all season 1 challenges? What an absolute slog that must’ve been. I didn’t even bother to start as soon as i saw them. I don’t know if i should gratulate you or be worried.

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Yeah tying some shillings to weaves in general might be nice, though we should get them every 5 or so normal maps too in my opinion.

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Yep, I completed them all, purely for completionist reasons. At that point in season 1 we did not know if there were any season exclusive rewards, so I went ahead and did everything, just in case.

It really was a mind numbing slog. Incredibly boring. And I don’t want that effort to be wasted by having those challenges removed.

A completionist would congratulate me, anyone else would probably be worried. XD

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I congratulate you, but as a completionnist myself, I would like to be able to “complete” them. (even if it comes back for a season in a cycle). Even today, someone asked for help to complete one of thoses challenges. It’s not clear they are locked. It’s not clear if they will come back. It’s kinda nonsense to show “uncompletable” challenges anymore (they can still show the ones you completed)

Well, I would dare to say that “Weekly Challenge” should give you a bunch of them, for non dlc owners.

Thank you, and you have my condolences. It must suck having done everything else, and then miss out on completing all Okri’s challenges just because of these tedious and unrewarding challenges that we could only guess were timed.

However, while you want them to cycle back, I am of the opinion that timed challenges and rewards shouldn’t cycle back. But this has been discussed in-depth elsewhere, several times, and I believe further discussion on that topic isn’t needed.

But I agree that there being no indicator that you can’t complete those challenges is a problem. My suggestion that they get a banner with “Expired” on them (if you did not complete them) should take care of that problem, while still allowing those that completed them to keep them (by having “Reward Claimed” on them).

S1 completionists should have gotten an animated portrait. They should still retroactively get an animated reward for that.

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