I completely understand that from a data analysis point of view, you’d want to seperate your data into the corresponding data sets. My assumption would be that you’d want to seperate the feedback into before and after the last patch that had “an effect” on crafting and would therefore change the feedback. That way you could compare the two and see how the feedback changed and make a case for “this was enough” or “this wasn’t enough”.
This is the extend of the feedback (and it’s differences) you will find:
Pre 8th of august patch:“It sucks, remove the locks”
Post 8th of august: “The changes are neat but not enough and overall it still sucks, remove the locks still”
Both of these things are not news to you, you have heard something along these lines, so many times by now, I’d make my head spin.
I’m just very confused why we are “openly” talking about this now, an entire year later…
We all know what the poll would show you… take the easiest win in DTs patching history and break the locks.
The data from our systems I tailor into reports I share to the whole company - fortnightly for Darktide and Monthly for Vermintide and try and present it with qualitative data. I also present these in our companywide meetings so no reports get missed! I also have meetings and many other ways in which I use this data…What i’m trying to say is yes, they care and listen to the data I present and seek me out to get more nuance on issues frequently.
I know they do care, and there is obviously concern around the current crafting systems, and I don’t think this is the end of the changes, but there isn’t much more information we are ready to share on this right now.
For sure there is a lot of feedback about it online, and I have tonnes of links to reddit and these forums to help strengthen my arguments- but something I am frequently reminded of along with all the feedback online it is important to take into account all the players who don’t give feedback or don’t comment, it’s especially hard to gauge their opinions on it.
I scroll through this thread once in a while, its not by negligence that it’s been kept open!
Honestly I haven’t been as attentive due to personal and work restrictions. So I have been a lot more lax on the forums. Even before the crafting changes I wasn’t adding that many people also just because there’s only so many people on the forums and making changes.
I have seen maybe 3 people say they are “content enough” with the new crafting changes. Everyone else seems to agree it is not enough.
I personally don’t think it’s enough (if you take out the bug that allows you to farm really fast).
I would be willing to various ideas that have been thrown around though:
Red weapons that have no locks (although we need to talk about how to acquire them)
You can upgrade the tiers but not the types, of locked blessings/perks.
You can upgrade all base items to “max” which is 380 (but should probably change).
Give some way of acquiring max curios and weapons, maybe change melks random rolls to guarantee specific weapons but at max value with base modifiers. Brunt’s stays for ordos and blessing farming, melks for good base items.
Make it so that what you change is what gets locked.
Just remove the locks. Or have a cost to remove them until you change something again.
I think I could “settle” for any of these, even though I would like some options more than others. The main thing is to reduce tedium and have a mass inventory and to be able to experiment with different combinations, which includes the modifier values on the weapons (or just remove modifiers entirely and have each weapon type have its own static values).
Nice bit of insight that I appreciate and I can’t be the only one, thanks ^^
Ok I get that. I understand that the number of people you get feedback is significantly smaller than the people that don’t give any feedback at all.
I can only tell you what 8 other friends think that once played DT and have stopped and not returned since. None of them ever posted any feedback so I’d say “you’re talking of them”.
Every. single. one. hates the locks and wants nothing more but to have them removed. It’s the single biggest reason for a few of them to have written DT off and the others to only keep up with it but not play anymore. Do with that information what you may but I seriously doubt the people not giving feedback would be unhappy with the gacha elements being gone from DT. There is just no way that that could have even a fraction of the negative feedback as the current crafting system does.
I am personally not a fan of that reasoning since we’re talking about a very simple change that could easily be reverted if it had unforseen consequences.
I know several who initially purchased the game but grew apathetic due to the terrible RNG crafting system and weapon locks. These are avid 40k fans with disposable income who would happily spend money on premium cosmetics, but the terrible crafting system ran them off. They won’t be spending more money. They aren’t going to leave feedback. They have left the game entirely. Listen to the people who leave feedback. They still care about the game and have money to spend. How can you guys not understand this? This is customer service 101.
I want to start with expressing my appreciation for the statement that the feedback is at least being acknowledged since that is one of my own personal fustrations is a lack of communication or what appears as a lack of communication.
In response to the statement regarding ensuring all player’s feedback is heard including those who do not post or participate in platforms such as this or the reddit I wanted to add my own PoV or response. I have played since launch and have cycled through multiple groups and friends who have played the game and subsequently dropped it. A rough estimate of the amount is close to ~14 individuals with only one still playing the game still. A summary of their collective thoughts on the crafting system post Aug. update is that it is not sufficient for them to consider the game again. Their main grievance with the game stems from a lack of end-game content due in part to the lack of control of their equipment (and upgrades).
While this is mainly anecdotal I still wanted to add this to place potential evidence to the pile for the unmeasured individuals you are referring to. Not just those who respond to the crafting poll.
If there was a way to gather the opinions of those who do not regularly participate obviously that would provide the best evidence. Something along the lines of an advertised survey on the DT launcher perhaps, but of course surveys typically have low participation so I am not sure.
Given the game’s abysmal retention rate it shouldn’t be that difficult to roughly gauge the silent majority’s opinion on Darktide’s primary retention system. A line of reasoning I know can’t have unexamined by your colleagues; I won’t believe that everyone at Fatshark is so blind.
Darktide has a LONG WAY TO GO from what Vermintide gave us. The crafting system in VT2 was top tier, Darktide’s crafting system is 100% a step in the wrong direction, going backwards. Making Darktide more like Vermintide 2 is what you should be doing, whatever direction you were “trying” with Darktide, just was not it.
same. I stopped playing it a couple months before that patch, and the patch didn’t do anything to change my mind, even with all the good things that came along with it. Anything new added to the game seems lost to the wind if it always leads back to the same slot machine road.
A lot of players quit because of things that are caused by the crafting system, although they might not notice it.
Players might quit because they feel like there is nothing left to do, because the game feels too repetitive, a class is not fun to play, or because their weapons feel bad to use.
Why is there nothing left to do, or no goal to try and achieve? Because of the crafting system.
There is no progression. The crafting system is not fun to interact with and is not rewarding. No point in farming ressources, or playing the game for anything else than just enjoying the moment, when hours and hours of farming are just being pissed away in a bad rng system. It feels so bad to interact with, that i would feel better to just ignore its existence.
Farming ressources for the crafting system, is the equivalent of you working hard on something, just for someone to come in and burn down your hard work, right in front of your eyes.
Why does the game feel repetitive? Because of the crafting system.
Because there is no realistic way of experimenting with builds. You can not simply try out different weapons with the builds that you would want to test out.
Even repetitive actions can be fun, if they are rewarding. A good crafting system that allows for experimentation and progression, would remove a lot of that repetitive feeling.
Why do some classes or weapons often feel bad to use? Because of the crafting system.
Every time you level up a new character to 30, you have to interact with the gambling system again, trying to get at least decent gear.
If you do not get the blessings that you want to try out for your build, you simply can not play the build that you want.
did we play the same game?! remember how we could open just one box at a time, with double the amount of animation, that was btw unskippable? reds weren’t a thing, rolling the stats you want was and still is a total slog?
don’t confuse what the latest version + mods looks like with the release version…
Full agreement. What’s worse, even with the latest version with mods, crafting in VT2 is LESS compelling than Darktide at the very release.
With Darktide there is for any weapon 2-4 different combos I envision as being interesting choices.
In VT2, if you don’t critfish for attack speed and breakpoint, you are playing outright an inferior version of the game for no reason.
Except for one, ALL the Blessings are useless and the few that weren’t in the past got overnerfed by community request.
I do not want a VT2 crafting and skill system. I am glad we are getting something new now. Blessed be the Omnissiah, for he provides.
