You could.
You could us3 a rock to smash in railroadties or you could use a sledgehammer… they both work, but the other is more refined. Use the rock if you want. But youll get better results with a hammer. But thisalso isnt a railroad.
You could what? which specific part of my post is this referring to?
What?
2 Likes
Im afraid not. Only negative counts for negative. Im not counting for positive. So to find what number represents negative im reading through zll that arent outwardly spoken negative so that their review is taken in full context. If nothing is negative of crafting, its counted as “not negative”
Negative is inclusive of needs improvement, could be better etc.
So is neutral. Neutral is failure. Every system and things player engage with should be fun. Should make them excited to touch it. If it creates indifference, boredom, listlessness, etc. it’s a failure. This is basic game design.
2 Likes
Sorry; on tablet and managing lil uns.
You could say that this thread has helped push crafting. And changes have been made, yet people in this thread are still unhappy. This sounds like a messaging issue. Or, FS doesnt want to eliminate RNG completely.
Nuetral is the absence of success and absence of failure. Though, we are pushing now to see out of all reviews since aug 7 which mention which definitively call out crafting. Probably a small fraction.
What we are after though is the “success” of a gaming system. It’s popularity. Whether Fatshark should change the entire thing and revamp their system. People who tolerate it or are indifferent to it would be a demographic that motivates towards changing it. As well as negative. It’s only people who see it positively that would hinder that move.
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Since, while there have been good changes on crafting most of the core item acqusition leaves alot to be desired and is random in nature. Checking hourly or daily shops, rolling grey items from Brunts. I’d also like to point out that not all players do infact play in auric damnaiton or maelstrom and will have a lower rate of gathering resources.
And again. Fatshark seems to agree, atleast to a point, on this.
Following this, we are working on an overhaul of our current itemisation process. With the new system we want to remove a lot of the unpredictable grind that came from an RNG heavy system whilst giving players more agency and a steady manner to progress toward specific loadouts, blessings, and stats refinement.
I agree on this, whatever version we are getting after the itemisation overhaul, time will always be a factor. But people would not mind it being a time sink as much IF they can have a determined way to acquire what they want after a while.
5 Likes
Can’t wait for the crafting rework to hit, an actual good system (hopefully) being implemented, and then this fella starting to argue that none of the criticisms led to that, they would’ve done it either way
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I do have hope that it’ll be good. Class rework and the penance update is making the game better. Some penances might have to be looked at, but overall it was quite fun going to 4500 penance points and ofcourse the obligatory mention that the updates could be coming out a bit faster.
5 Likes
This is a really interesting point to me. As on a fundamental level it resonates with the kind of games I hold in high regard; I very much believe that there is merit in the core idea of what you’re saying, this is worth discussing, this is worth acknowledging. Before I start, I’d like to mention that you’re right, absolutely, a good system is one in which the player is constantly making trade offs in their build. One of my favorite RPG, Age of Decadence:
Is all about making trade offs. You have a limited amount of stat points to allocate so you have to choose carefully on what to specialize your character into; do you go full civics, full combat, full speech, or do you try a hybrid of sorts; each type of build has its own advantages and disadvantages.
A combat build, for instance, will have an easier time bashing through the hardest combat encounters in the game; but the trade off is that it won’t be able to glean all the secrets of the game’s lore, story, and narrative; which is important if you want to puzzle out the greater narrative of how the Great Empire fell, how the factions came to be, and more importantly, what caused the apocalypse which has come to define the setting. So, in essence, this type of game design facilitates in new paths being open to your character while other paths close off - this makes for interesting, stimulating, game design as both the choices and sacrifices you made in character creation actually impact your in-game experience in a very compelling way.
Another favorite of mine in which I hold very, very, dear to heart is Ravenloft: Stone Prophet (I need to gush: I love this game so much it’s kind of insane, the middle eastern setting appeals so much to my Moroccan/Berber heritage, and the music is so beautiful).
Though unlike Age of Decadence where the design is focused on dialogue branches, narrative content, and role playing elements; Stone Prophet is more or less focused on the combat, such as: your stats determine how many spells you can access, the amount of spell like abilities (SLA) you gain per level, how much health you can get per level, your Thac0, and so on; it’s a modified variant of the already simplistic AD&D ruleset so stats don’t really play as big of a factor in character build compared to DnD 3.x.x and its forks/variants, but still the choices you make in character creation heavily influence your combat potential.
Here’s the thing though. In the two examples I listed, none of the games will have you roll in an unsatisfying, humiliating, way just to get a chance at a roll just to distribute the points just so you can play. Indeed, that would be absolutely awful! Now, for full disclosure: Ravenloft, like all D&D based games from the 1990s (i.e Goldbox, Dark Sun, Baldur’s Gate 1), does have a roll mechanic for stats but the game also has the good sense to give you the CHOICE to use the superior point buy system to allocate stats - even in D&D tabletop my friends and I always use the point buy system because we utterly hate rolling for stats.
RNG can be an interesting mechanic when it’s used in combat, however, it’s not very fun when people have to roll for a chance just so they can create their build or to roll for a weapon they want to use - I remember abhorring the original shop we had in “Beta” for Darktide where we had to wait real life time just so we can get a CHANCE at a weapon we want to use - that was awful. There’s nothing interesting in terms of game design as it doesn’t lead to any meaningful choices or consequences nor does it result in stimulating mechanics that engage the player. All it does is gatekeep fun.
Darktide gatekeeps fun.
In my opinion: you deserve better than this. You don’t need to rationalize this lackluster system. Don’t justify this. Critique it. Excusing this awful system does not make it better for anyone. All it does is serve to vindicate the sunk cost fallacy, which is harmful since this type of rationalization never leads to any productive dialogue for improvements save for excusing the developer’s reluctance to improve.
This is not an adequate gameplay system for creating meaningful engagement.
9 Likes
Having read your post in earnest, how does the current crafting system, which allows you to chose two “traits” feel to you? You get to modify the two most pivotal stats in a weapon between perks and blessings. You can choose to do both of either or one of the other? You can also save blessings that you’ve already found and earned. All perks were unlocked; you didn’t need to earn those. Quite an improvement and one that satisfies the law of diminishing returns.
Now do that with fixed base weapon stats so that your weapons actually feel like mass-produced equipment.
2 Likes
Ooooo this is getting good. This is number 21 in the list so far
" The crafting is rather forgiving and straight forward and the game even has mod support which solves a lot of problems in regard to the game not telling you enough." x3
*salvaged from the battlefield
RIP console players. Definitely a lot worse for them.
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It is an improvement. But I think it still fails because there is always the chance of a god roll that doesn’t have to make those choices.
You can get a perfectly serviceable weapon with alright stat distribution, and lets say 1 perk/blessing you’re looking for. You already compromised on the stats, either because of resource limitations or don’t want to roll greys anymore, and than you have to choose 1 unoptimal perk or blessing to keep on the weapon.
While personally I don’t like the stat system, in this example there is a choice, as you have to choose 1/3 unoptimal blessing/perks that would still be the most useful on the weapon.
The problem is that will always be unsatisfying, because the person right next to you at Hadrons just got a god roll 380, with perfect stats, blessings, and perks. They didn’t have to make a single compromise or decision.
And did that person spend a ton of hours on that weapon? Tons of resources? Completed a super hard mission?
No, they just got more lucky than you did.
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C’mon, they’re mass produced; just… with wild variance. It’s not like we reprobate prisoners (aka: meat) are good enough to get STC-based production in our backwater garbage sector anyhow.
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They’re still the same weapons provided that the Inquisitorial soldiers did routine maintenance of them. I wouldn’t want to face an angry Quartermaster, especially if he’s an Ogryn!
A Steyr that’s lost in the field doesn’t become a Kalashnikov.
1 Like
Out of 13,555 positive reviews since August 7, 2023…
Only 275 reviews spoke negatively about the crafting system.
That’s 2%, for anyone counting.
So given that, in this period of “VERY POSITIVE” Reviews, I don’t think 2% of reviews would change review score to a “MIXED” review. But, even if we include EVERY SINGLE review that even MENTIONS it, that’s still 484 reviews. Which, is about 4%.
I wonder how many reviews you’d need to make that VERY POSITIVE rating go to mixed?