Stealing in your own pocket

There will be a lot of text here, some to the point and some not, I just want to whine once again, knowing that this will not change anything in the game, because even if the CM writes to us, this is important, the result is known in advance.If anyone is interested in adding something, and supplementing or disagreeing, I invite you to another pointless dispute in the comments

I’ll start with the main thought that came to my mind again, I was sitting last night and instead of getting enough sleep before my shift I decided to watch a stream on VT2. I stopped playing it since the release of Dark, I actually logged in once somewhere at the end of 2023, but it wasn’t the same, it was slow, but that’s not the point, so I watched it and saw. There is a built-in table of results in the game (oh my god, toxicity), there is information about ammo and HP, as well as the cooldown of allies, there are buttons to start a mission without going to the task table - useful and simple things that were enough for me not to use mods in the game, everything is concise and informative.

Statistics:

Summary

And as far as I know, the scoreboard is missing due to increased toxicity among players, and here I remember a bunch of moments that had nothing to do with the scoreboard in dark but caused toxic behavior (yes, there will be too many of these words, so that it was also disgusting to see it). One of the examples was again yesterday, the 40th havok was playing, the veteran was offended by the ogrin because: I was in front on the arby, and the ogrin was behind everyone and was shooting. As a result, the veteran was killed, and when I revived him, he went to merge with the mobs - how does the scoreboard relate to this obviously toxic situation? I can understand the veteran’s dissatisfaction, and I was not happy myself, but in the end it was the veteran who flew to the block list, but here’s the problem, THE BLOCK LIST IS LIMITED IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. Seriously, what’s the problem with making it infinite if our beloved Sharks are worried about toxicity there? What’s the problem with making an infinite blocklist so that in the end a dissatisfied person plays alone (hello, solo mode). But let’s get back to the table, if a person looks exclusively at the numbers and does not analyze what’s happening during the game, the problem is in the person himself, and not in the one who, for example, dealt 100k damage when everyone else had 700+. The results table is an additional property for evaluating your build, your effectiveness as part of the team. In the end, you can be at the end of the list in terms of overall damage, but kill the most specialists and know that you were useful in this when everyone else was just clearing the way.

Numeric interface:

Summary

And if I can imagine that this technology was lost when Darktide was created, then by the time Havok was released, it would have been worth re-developing. How nice to see when you have only 7 rounds left, say for a bolter, and someone takes them from under your nose with the words “I didn’t see how many you had” or something like that, and even if they take them silently, then most likely the small ammo indicator (VERY CONVENIENT (no)) was simply unnoticed, and how can you adequately understand from the color indicator when you can take ammo and when you should leave it? Okay, the HP display can help you understand whether the Zealot’s immortality was knocked down or not, but the issue with ammo is relevant. Yes, of course, you can also ask a question about the ult rollbacks, but for me personally, I only follow the Zealot and Psyker, the other ults are not so important to me, but as a fact, there are already 2 characters, and there is a possibility that in the game I will not be on one of them. At least one, logically and adequately justified reason for the lack of minimal data on allies in 40k, in the damned future, when in the times when the bow was the pinnacle of technology, this data was, but here it is not.

Variety of maps:

Summary

Here is a question of design. For me personally, there are only 5 types of maps:
Gloriana, Archivarum, Factory, Carnival, Train.
And now, well, just for 1 second, let’s remember where we are, in the damn city of the hive. And again, well, just imagine, it is unlikely that in our city there are also, purely theoretically, extremely rich areas that, to put it mildly, differ from the standard residential and working areas in their luxury. And yes, I absolutely do not care about the plot, because when the game was released, when I started, there was no adequate direction for the missions, I got a plot within the level, which means that for me it will never appear in the game (just for those who will say later why there is no what I am talking about). Why is there not a single mission in the really rich areas of the city, you can object that these are carnival missions - but no, I would say this is for ordinary people, I am talking specifically about the nobility and the rich of the city. Imagine any king’s palace, where is all this? Or is everything in Darktide limited to a couple of blue bottles and cosmetics on the characters? There is no variety of maps. I am sick of seeing how periodically some map disappears from the pool of maps for “recycling”, why try to change a large part of the map when you need to make a new one. Even another one in the style of the factory, I don’t care, make a new map, not a reworking of the old one, but a NEW one. Surely if you yourself are too lazy to invent or even develop a concept, but ask the guys on the forum: give me ideas for a new map - they will throw so many of them at you that you will get tired of sorting through them.

Map management

Summary

Of course, the innovation, which was simply gorgeous (NO) with a decrease in the number of available maps on regular missions and a decrease in the timer for their renewal, this is cool. But according to the forgotten technologies of ancient people who were in VT2, all maps were available there, and you could play any on a random map, or choose a specific one that YOU WANT. Imagine that you are a player who is told about the toxicity of the scoreboard, and you are like “yeah, right, we don’t need it”, and you want to complete the mission on Gloriana, but it is not there because “it was not included in the rotation” wait a bit, we reduced the timer. And so you sit and wait, got tired and went to another map, you exit and again it is not there, but as it turned out it was while you were on another mission and this (well, let’s just imagine) was the same 1 time per day when it was in rotation. And these people will talk about toxicity? The only thing that makes me TOXIC is the Sharks themselves. Why can’t I choose where to go? I want a specific mission with a specific modifier, is it so difficult? Why is there a Solo mod on the Nexus where you can select and launch both a mission and a modifier, but not in the game? Can’t the developers implement this?
Havoc and map rotation. Although I play Darktide less now, you know, it somehow annoys me that I can’t get into Gloriana on Havoc. Yes, you don’t want to give a choice of maps for Havoc, no questions, some are very simple. But suddenly, if all the maps intended for Havoc are added to the pool of maps available for it, the variety and interest in the mode may increase? It’s funny to see when you think about being a host yourself or looking for a lobby, because, for example, you don’t want to go to Archivarum now, but you see 4 more lobbies on the 40th for Archive. No, of course these issues can be resolved, the main thing is to install the right mod and assemble a team, because the developers simply either DO NOT KNOW about such trifles, or they DO NOT have the POSSIBILITY to resolve this.
Again, at least one logical justification for the rotation of Havoc maps and regular missions (except for the fact that this is an additional load on the servers)

Foggy future.

Summary

As many probably know, KF3 was released not long ago, yes I played it and of course it’s not even close to the emotions from Darktide (not in favor of KF), but there was an interesting moment, namely the roadmap. Yes, I understand everything, Fatshark is a poor indie company that cannot be rushed, resources are limited, etc. But how nice to realize that 9 months have passed since the promise of a “new” (in quotes because it could be another model of a shovel) weapon for a veteran, yes they promised it in 2025, and I also remind you that there was a statement about 4 major patches for this year. And I see how you can solve the issue with the roadmap:

1.Say that during the periods (indicate at least the months) we will have a major update, but do not say which one.

2.Specify what year (2025 as an example) will be released and specify what exactly.

Leaving a fog on both options is very disgusting. But it is even more disgusting to know about 4 updates not from the roadmap, but from the comments under one of the posts

Variety of weapons.

Summary

And if I don’t know much about the Ogryns’ arsenal of weapons, but humanly it’s quite wide, and I don’t see any reason even to release different models of shovels so that players would have a dilemma of what to go out with today. Of course, we understand everything, such things should be agreed upon with the GW, bureaucracy, long terms and blah blah blah, it’s funny. Is it really true that the new weapon for the Veteran is still being agreed upon, or has it not even been invented yet, or maybe it’s a pocket death star? Why does the release of one of the main things that can and should attract and retain the audience happen at a rate of 1 per year. Let’s look at the Helldivers, well, just take a quick look there, without looking at the balance and meta, just at the variety, is it there? And how so, and what do we have? Literally 1-2 unique class weapons and that’s it (the Ogryn doesn’t count, everything is unique there, except for the shield, because the Arbiter got an analogue). In general, the next logical step is like with dueling swords, which were once unique to the psyker, to make plasma available to everyone, the zealot’s flamethrower, and give the psyker’s staffs to the ogryn. Well, this is adding “new” weapons for classes according to the logic of sharks. I will not touch on the effectiveness of this or that weapon in terms of choice, I just look at the unique class weapons, and think, is that all? For the most part, you will see the same weapons among players, but imagine what it is like to have many different weapons, and someone will make a very strong one from an obviously bad and ineffective one. But returning to diversity. Multi-barreled grenade launcher, sniper weapon, power axes, claws, a two-handed machine gun for people, a two-handed axe for the ogryn, a beam staff for the psyker. You just sit and think “what if”, and if you have a bad imagination - Google images on the topic of Warhammer weapons, well, Sharks, is it that hard? For some reason, I am more than sure that the problem is not in coordinating with GW or adding to the game, but simply in the unwillingness to do anything.

Events

Summary

I won’t touch on the legendary event for 500 aquilas, namely “give us aquilas for the final stage”. The question here is different, why don’t they return to players on a permanent basis after their completion. I’ll give a hint for the Sharks: You launch an event for 2 weeks, during which the player can receive a unique reward (frame, title, anything, it doesn’t matter), and after the event timer ends, you can’t receive this reward, but this modifier becomes ordinary in games (and Havoc as well). For example, the current Rotten Armor event, what elite enemies look like is simply beyond words, I now see that these are enemies affected by the filth of Nurgle. Yes, you can not add the effect of strengthening the enemy and the “gas” explosion, but as a visual - this must be in the game by default without an additional event. The recent event with flamethrowers, it was cool to see how somewhere ahead there was not just an enemy standing, but using his weapon out of boredom, burning garbage bags and so on - it added that very abstract “atmosphere”. Why is this not introduced into the game on a permanent basis? As an event it is cool, yes, then such things are sorely lacking. And for some reason everyone’s favorite 21st is on Havoc, but not in regular ones. If a person does not want to go to Havoc, or he has no one to go with (not everyone plays in random, but can play with friends), he should only hear the legends that once upon a time in this game ancient people witnessed this event, just like the invasion of giants (hello ogryns).
Dear sharks, you will not believe it, but if such modifiers or design/behavior of enemies are introduced into the game as a matter of course, the game will not lose its uniqueness, on the contrary, it will only get better.

Attention to detail.

Summary

How many times have I noticed such an interesting thing as a conflict of releases. Not long ago, even before the postponement of the release date of KF3, the release of a major patch in Darktide was with a difference of a couple of days, of course I understand everything, and one developer should not and certainly is not obliged to adapt to another. But when you have a “conflict” of dates in games that are similar in meaning, perhaps it is worth doing something about it. If you do not have the desire / contacts with another company for interaction, then perhaps it is worth taking the initiative yourself and either releasing a patch at least 5 days in advance, or 5 days after the release of a competitor (5 is just an example), yes, maybe 3 days, and in 3 days you can quite play the game. But it is still better to have a small reserve so that as many players as possible are with you at the release of the update and are not distracted by some other project.
Or, for example, analyze the day of the patch release. Let’s imagine that a new class is released in a certain game, and the release date is set, say, for Monday. I don’t know about you, but most of my friends and I have a job, and let’s imagine a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with reality: Monday is the busiest day for most people, and some people may simply not be thinking about the game. The patch is released in the evening, in different time zones, and of course some of the potentially interested people will come later, or even forget and not come. And by the time feedback is received about the problems (which have never happened when patches were released), there will be almost no developers on site, and they will either have to fix it at an emergency pace by going out to work extra, or tomorrow. And what a pity that this issue could have been resolved with a simple action, like simply releasing an update, I’m not afraid, one of the most important in the history of this game, on the weekend, namely on Friday evening or Saturday morning. What will this give us? Let’s imagine again that most people are free from their usual routine during this period of time and not only can, but will be only happy with such a gift. Yes, you as a developer will have to work on weekends or again in the evening, but all this is offset by a much greater influx of players, and therefore money. Why can I analyze this from my point of view as a player who gets absolutely nothing from this, and the company that should be interested - does not do this (at least I do not see it)?

The list can go on and on. And I want to continue asking questions, making suggestions about the game, participating in debates. I like this game, and I don’t see any analogues of it at the moment, at least no similar games can give me the same emotions and pleasure from the process as Darktide.
For me at the moment it is a masterpiece of such games, which has become my favorite, and I am grateful to the Sharks and all the players, even if I scold everyone.
But I sincerely despise the Sharks, because they are not involved in this game at all, I feel sorry to see something like “Event XXXX occurred in Helldivers 2” in the big news, and there is silence about Darktide.
And sometimes I regret that I even went into it, sometimes it is better not to encounter something good

All you can do is give your feedback, i think you confuse listening with complying.

If Fatshark would do what everyone wanted, there wouldn’t be a game, but you know this Fatshark is going to do the game they wanna make and if people like it they will play it.

If the did not listen in on their player base the game wouldn’t be popular.

Saying that Fatshark isn’t doing ‘anything’ is simply not true, the have made so much changes (all of them not good of course) but that is how it with change, it can’t all be good.

A game at this price-point that gives you so much free updates/content have played this game for over 1k hours and i still think it’s one of the best ones. How many games does?

You sound like the developers of this game owe you something, but by the sound of it you will never be satisfied that’s okay, probably even good.

But if you think you are going to get everything you ‘whine’ about you are just gonna be what you sound like a miserable 5-year old.

My answer is probably gonna be viewed as controversial, Fatshark make the game they wanna make and if they don’t wanna listen to their community who cares the game is not gonna be played.

But maybe Im just old :slight_smile:

Don’t forget lack of any resource sink while being very kindly and very generously blessed with a resource cap. Parts of the game feels like if Fatshark went with a short term placehorder and then decided to just roll with it…

Why not? Its a game not a middle east geopolitics

And you’ll grow older waiting for the same QoL features Vermintide 2 has

Scoreboard, numeric UI, maps rotation, dog spam after events over, skins.

All been said and to the point it is better to set expectations this is “it” going forward.

I see a lot of threads about ideas on class rework, enemies, missions etc. Shows good hope from players I applaud them for it, but it’s time to come to acceptance based on historical updates as to what the future is heading.

“Good” is subjective hence it’s impossible to be good for everyone, so it will not please everyone. If you wanna walk down the philosophy route fine, but im not really gonna.

It’s not the same game so i don’t expect the same things.

Its worse than that, you expect less…

Yeah talking about the price vs time played, if you don’t do cosmetics there’s no contest if you like the game your money is so we’ll spent it’s not funny. Most games struggle to hold people longer than a few weeks of they’re middling. And a single player story is usually a one time thing and then you move on after maybe 100 hours?

That’s what gets me about all the complaints here. I appreciate people love the game and just want it to be better, whatever that means to them individually. But like, if the game wasn’t good ENOUGH already, 95% of the complainers would have left already.

Instead they’ve been hooked to the game to the tune of hundreds or thousands of hours and then turn around and say it’s broken beyond fixing and Fatshark has built a terrible product and don’t care at all.

Like sorry man, I buy tons of cosmetics and I’ve dumped a load of time into the game since it came out on Xbox. I still feel like my money has been well spent and I will continue playing, while hoping for some new stuff or improvements here and there, but I’m not gonna scream and cry in the forums about it. If I get bored and they stop updating then I’ll leave and I won’t come back. It’s pretty simple.

Thats not even what im saying, i have expectations just not the same.

No, it is literally expecting less, since Darktide still definitely has missing features and problems that they solved in Vermintide 1 and 2 that they could add without compromising any grand vision (except monetisation, I guess).

You don’t know what expectations i have.

Or am I “in on it”.

Well that rules out a lot of expectations.

This is a bit of a flawed argument: sure, it’s good enough to keep me for hundreds of hours, but the room for improvement is obvious, and even more obvious is Fatshark’s lack of drive to make said improvements.

A lot of my requests aren’t huge. They don’t even have to take much work. The fact that it’s been almost two years since I started playing and they’re still not here is annoying.

Where is a Havoc system that’s fun to progress in? Where are numerous UI and player freedom improvements? Do you have any idea how much yelling it took to make crafting in this game not suck complete ass?

I don’t buy MTX on principle - if I paid money for the game, you are not getting any extra money unless it adds to the gameplay in some capacity, whether that be DLC maps or a new class. It hurts to see paid MTX in a paid game be the norm and see people completely fine with this and even support it.

No it’s not, because this “argument” is one person’s opinion, and there’s no evidence that this person doesn’t actually believe what they’re saying.

apparently that word means something other than what i thought it did. post edited

If I can achieve one thing before I die, I think I’d go happy into that endless dream if I could get everyone on these forums to understand that calling someone (or something they say) disingenuous is the same as calling them a liar with an agenda (which is a pretty gross way to approach differing opinions).

TLDR: I’m going to rant a bit about why I hate scoreboard, and because it’s being getting worse lately, so ignore this if you don’t care.

Removing the scoreboard was one of the best decisions FS took with Darktide IMO and I LOVE them for that.

I think a scoreboard does encourage competitiveness amongst strangers, and what’s worse is, it does not belong in co-op focused games that the tides series are.

Neither the classes, their weapons, the random spawns, player positioning, using an ability that saved the run at a critical point during the mission, or the combat mechanics (as a few examples) can be measured in such simple, arbitrary numbers.

You are not shooting at a single dummy with different weapons and comparing the results, you cannot even compare your own scores from various missions using the same setup, because each mission has so many immeasurable variables that cannot be studied and make sense, ever.

You can however use the psykhanium and test breakpoints, that gives you results that can be measured and compared reliably, in short, socreboard is in reality useless.

Let’s be honest here, scoreboard is attracting to players who want to boost their ego by topping the numbers, it’s the green circle chase from vermintide, monkey brain wants gold stars from teacher to feel special and that did good. My own brother uses it and he is very competitive, so I know how these people think and why they like it.

And in general, I cannot count the times where I’ve seen players, mostly on reddit, who use the scoreboard mod as proof to prove their point in an argument, “this weapon is better than that weapon”, -no man, you just don’t know how that weapon works with a certain setup-, or the countless times they post scoreboard screenshots to belittle other players with lower score, but mostly to boost their own ego.

Oh and I don’t know if you are aware of this, but there’s been a new submod for scoreboard circulating, that posts the total damage of all players in group chat, the author in nexusmods claims it’s private, but that’s BS, as I’ve seen it with my own eyes been posted in group chat after the mission ended, so now these numbers junkies are trying to force that crap in my game without my consent, it is NEVER ENOUGH for these kind of people.

I think it’s been removed from nexus now, but I’m sure it will keep circulating in discord, like the other mods we don’t talk about, and some people certainly don’t ever use :wink:

If FS however ever made a scoreboard official, that would be the end of fun for the game, because that would make all players forcefully accept, that that’s the new standard measurement of a good player now, and only thing that matters is getting those special gold stars, just like the dominant mentality of vermintide’s green circle ended up being.

I still remember clearly this Vermintide2 inicident, a rando grail knight joined us in a chaos wastes map, he was going down constantly, hogging all the heals, but the scoreboard in the end showed him topping the melee kills and almost total damage too, I am sure in his mind he thought he played superbly and was valuable for winning the run, that’s what the green circles showed everyone anyway.

This sort of language is kinda forced by the forums and the expectations we gonna be polite, also there’s the factor of english not being everyones first language. In our language the term disingenuous/dishonest doesn’t have the implication of outward deceit but rather self-deception!

But you are right, we should call things for what they are!

And with that it mind,

Stop screaming and crying about QoL features, i buy ton of cosmetics

isn’t disingenuous, its just plain stupid :+1:

I think it’s fair to say that, like many online communities, we sometimes get posts that feel more agenda-driven than genuine. It’s not always easy to sort out strong opinions from deliberate misrepresentation, but it happens.

I think there are some dramatic and emotional people who sometimes downplay reality, but I don’t think there’s much lying or agenda-having. Just bugbears and compulsions. And people with too much time on their hands (it me).