Spending 500K on brunt

[Tempest_yo]

@NemesisNidhoggr

YOU ARE NOT ALONE ON MISSION. Alongside you there are 3 other rejects. With weapons. And intentions to kill enemies.

You really assume everyone is going to turn around, and shoot a trapper you dropped to 1% with an awful weapon that could have one shot it with a better crafting system?

Relying on your team to get sh*t done is great and all, but absolutely not a winning strategy.

The more you can get done on your own without any help is the winning formula. It opens up space for your team to breathe and get more of their own sh*t done.

You, and I have had this discussion ad nauseum. Now you are have having it with someone else. You aren’t changing anyone’s minds on what is an objectively terrible crafting system.

Just give it up man.

Don’t bother replying to this. You can just refer back to the last thread you, and I argued about this for any potential replies. I’m not going to do a full retread of points I already made.

[Azmosam]

I feel like FS could circumvent the issue by taking a different approach.
They could implement a system in which XP gained over lvl 30 is converted into a permanent % increase to aquilas gained at the end of successful missions. This would not only reward your most dedicated players, as the people who play the most will be rewarded with increasingly more currency, but it will also make getting your desired weapons easier as you have more money to waste on Brunt. As a bonus, it would prevent more players from giving up on a game that appears lost, as you will only be awarded your earned % increase from wins so there is a greater incentive to stay.

Am I a genius or is there something I’m missing?

To give an idea of how the conversion could work. Let’s say you’ve been level 30 for a while now, and you have earned enough XP to level from lvl29 to lvl30, twenty times over. This could convert into a 20% increase to currency earned at the end of a successful mission. Instead of earning 80,000 aquilas, you would earn 96,000. This could eventually be capped, but I’m not sure what the harm is in allowing players to earn increasingly higher amounts of aquilas since it is only used for acquiring weapons, and players who manage to achieve very high % increases to their aquilas income will only be the most dedicated and experienced players (aka, the people who keep the game alive and earn FS money.), so why not reward them with the ability to grind better loot more efficiently??

As a side note, the only issue I could foresee would be the use of botting to grind XP, by joining and AFKing in games to gain XP from losses. You could fix this by only rewarding XP to players who are level 30 from wins only. Other than that, it could create more disappointment and frustration in players when they fail a mission, as they won’t get their % increase, but this could also be potentially avoided by limiting the % increase reward to Auric difficulty missions since the players in these lobbies are already try-harding and looking for a challenge with competent teammates. It may also incentivize the creation of more competitive clans being created with the purpose of finding teammates who are willing to try-hard to complete missions as fast as possible since success in a mission on auric difficulty will become more valued.
You could also set caps on the % reward based on the difficulty of the mission. So Auric heresy is capped at a 30% increase, while damnation is at 60% and maelstroms will be uncapped.

Thoughts?

[gpkgpk]

I’ll say it again, it seems that Brunt’s is there to get a weapon of a specific type to play around with, not to get high base really good ones consistently.

If you just hit 30, odds are whatever you get there is gonna be better than what you’ve gotten so far, and you should have more than enough to make a few oranges to get you going.

[zaygr]

Brunt’s just highlights how bad item acquisition is in general.

[NemesisNidhoggr]

you are relying on your team. That is why this is a TEAM game. It is everyone’s job to respond to enemy threats. So when a pack of crushers coming at your team - it doesnt matter that your revolver can oneshot crusher. You entire team responds to that threat and pumps damage into that pack. It can be grenade, void staff shot, plasma shot, slab shield bash, anything.
That means enemy is not 100% hp whenether you shoot him or being able to shoot again.

If the trapper left with 1% hp - shoot him again. Dodge his net. Kill him with your melee weapon. It’s not like game is over just because you failed to onetap trapper.
Ammo is not an issue in this game. Especially if you not playing full-automatic gun and spray bullets into each poxwalker horde. Time difference in two shotting and one shotting trapper is 0.3-0.4s. And if your first shot takes 99% of his hp - he will be staggered.

You talking about some unrealistic, made up, scenarios that are not the reason people losing the match. And even if that was a reason - it woul happen one in a dozen games. It’s like playing a martyrdome thunderhammer zealot just in case once per 20 games your teammates will aggro daemonhost and you can kill him fast.
Yes, you are capable of killing dh with thunderhammer in 2-3 hits. Is it worth it to play every game this build and be somewhat average on scoreboard? Or is it better to go meta knife-crit build and be top damage, kills and everything?

i’ll state my point more clearly:
i agree crafting system is bad. I disagree on the way people complain about it. Instead of rework suggestions - they just cry “i spend a lot of ordo dockets and plasteel but didnt get a perfect weapon”
I agree crafting system needs changes. I disagree that you should be given perfect weapon after X amount of tries.
I agree that if you want oneshot crusher with perfect god-roll revolver just because it’s fun - you should be able to. I disagree that you think it’s somehow important to win the games and is necessary or effecient.

I agree on conclusion. I disagree with the solution.

P.S. sorry mate, i dont know who you are and if we argued on something before. And i couldnt care less

[1Cake]

Imagine thinking that killing things too hard is not effective.

[NemesisNidhoggr]

if you are a casual player. who doesnt care about how game mechanics work. Then sure - you dont need to imagine. You dont need to even think.

But if you are a tryhard, that cares about effectiveness, min-maxing, optimization and etc - yes, “Killing things too hard” is ineffective.

Because in order to “kill things too hard” you need to invest points into talents, that increase your damage output. You need to get blessings that increase your damage output. You need to get perks, that increase your damage output.

You see people picking veteran with revolver, going fullmax damage talents. Just to be able oneshot crusher. On a regular Auric Hi STG there are anywhere from 5 to 50 crushers. out of 1000-3000 enemies. Crushers represent 0.5-2% of total enemies you encounter.
You, dealing 3600 damage to crusher. Means you deal 3600+ damage to any other enemy, regardless of it’s hp.
Let’s look at other dangerous enemies you tend to prioritize and kill. Gunners, shotgunners, flamers, trappers etc. They have range of hp between 900 and 1400. Which means your revolver deals 2-3x times more damage, that is necessary to kill those enemies. And you know very well, that those enemies are far more often present on the screen, than crushers.

What does that means from mathematical, min-maxing, optimization side?
It means you can safely drop several talents/blessings that increase your damage. And instead pick some talents, that will help you elsewhere. Like grenade talents. Or melee weapon talents. Or team utility talents. Or survivability talents.
Yes, you wont be able to oneshot certain type of enemies, that represent 1% of total enemies.
But you still able to oneshot other types of enemies, that represent 15-20% of total enemies.
While having plenty of talents to invest in something else, that will help you in fights overall.

i had this discussion with one guy who posted some braindead plasmagun build.
This is the build he suggested

This is the build that kills everything at the same rate as previous build. Except it’s not capable of oneshotting crusher with charged attack.

You have 4 talent points, free to invest into anything else. Bigger coherency radius, with more grenades so you can spam them into hordes?

getting better melee capabilities by dropping unnecessary focus target keystone, while still capable of killing whatever you want with plasma?

You see how much use and effectiveness outside “oneshot crusher” you can get by investing talents into something else. Dropping excessive overkill damage in favour of something more beneficial.

[1Cake]

Now that’s something I can agree with. Too many people are unable to grasp the concept of an opportunity cost.

[CommanderJ]

Brunt was not there from launch. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

[zaygr]

At launch, you didn’t even get notified what weapons you unlocked as you levelled, and there was a chance that you would never see your new unlock for a long time because at the time there was only the daily and hourly shops and the low chance of an Emperors gift that may or may not have been capped.

Brunt fixed the getting the new thing issue but introduce an unnecessary trade-off of rolling for randomised stats blind.

Emperor’s Gift was changed to always drop, but with such a large roll pool at a certain point getting a potential upgrade is near impossible, as well as there being no feedback at all whether your actions in a mission affect the quality at all.

[Jonboy]

Been there, done that, gave up on Brunt profanes. So I bought 20 plasma guns from Brunt . Particularly annoying as from what I can see, and have read, your chance of higher level blessings is linked to the base rating. High 370 = more likely for t4.

I just camp the shop nowadays for decent looking pre-specified weapons.

Also; for me the ideal roll thing comes down to something a bit like this: which running shoe do you want for the next marathon? Given a choice, which would you take. I mean you can say it doesn’t matter, it’s not going to change whether you win the race … or maybe actually it will if you’re actually a high end competitor?!

I mean, they both look nice. Both do the same job more or less. Why worry about that 5% difference?

For me; it’s because I care about being as good as I can be. Yeah, I can only just about do T5 Auric Hi ~ and that’s with a good team. That’s my level. But I sure as hell want to maximise my chance every time I play by having the best weapon I can, so that if I go down, well - it wasn’t some lame ass rng six months ago in Brunt’s shop. And one missed shot could mean getting cleaned out by that mutie or whatever, so yeah, it does add up.

[gpkgpk]

Well fwiw, the hourly shops feels far more generous and crafted T4 blessing less rare even on blues since Oct big update #13, Melk’s seems better too; the rates changed over time.
Hel, I still remember how painful it was not being able to reroll a blessing and that bugged me a lot as that was a (near) launch promised feature IIRC.

[weeping.moon]

@NemesisNidhoggr

Darktide doesnt need good itemization.

It’s too late, builds are already there with weeklies, gambling, Destiny alike hub, and Game as a service lable. And the whole idea of building a character is to optimize its performance, even if you don’t need to minmax. It’s a part of game expirience. But the problem it’s poorely implemented.

@NemesisNidhoggr

The core gameplay is horde killing. Items doesnt matter.

The core gameplay is horde killing doesn’t mean side systems should suck. Neither you can expect people will skip it. How is it even makes sense you introduce system, put it in the game and saying don’t use it.

Put a window in the game then “WE DID IT JUST BECAUSE INSTEAD OF IMPLEMENTIG SOMETHING GOOD WERE SIMULATING WORKING TO NOT BEING FIRED”

@NemesisNidhoggr

But because it’s a bad system - i dont use it.
Furthermore why you crying about it on forums.

Damn, gigachad sigma! Do you know what “feedback” is? Criticism?

@NemesisNidhoggr

Because game is objectively underdeveloped

Hahaha wow, people are keep saying these systems are bad right from the start they added it.

@NemesisNidhoggr

then go and play those games. Darktide doesnt need good itemization

Also, you said so? Who cares? Oh no, two can play this game.

@NemesisNidhoggr

you know system is bad → you still go and interact with it → your interaction goes bad → you cry on forums, that it’s bad.

Why it’s even in the game? What it brings to the player? Gambling just for gambling?

@NemesisNidhoggr

Who cares, you had fun PLAYING the game. Not FARMING one boss over and over again.

People who want some depth and longevity for this game, some modern approach, not a boomer shooter that become stale after 300 hours?

@NemesisNidhoggr

then go and play those games.

Maybe you better go and play l4d or some older games? I played tones of them, was enough for me.

@NemesisNidhoggr

If OP post was “i dont think crafting system is rewarding, engaging or worth doing. It needs a rework” - then absolutely fine. I agree with that position. I would even suggested something.

Cause it’s basicaly what everyone means.

@NemesisNidhoggr

There is a difference between constructive criticizm with valuable suggestions. And crying for the sake of crying because you are frustrated that you saw rotten apple, you know rotten apples are bad, you have eaten it anyway and now your tummy hurts.

There is a difference. But if you are intellectually developed enough you can translate from emotional language people are talking sometimes to rational.

[Beravin]

Spending huge amounts of time farming currency, then using it all to try and improve my weapons only to end up with nothing is by far my biggest gripe. It really is frustrating. Its even worse when you just want to make a minor change, too, like getting a better perk or something.

[weeping.moon]

@Jonboy

Particularly annoying as from what I can see, and have read, your chance of higher level blessings is linked to the base rating. High 370 = more likely for t4.

And it’s even worse for weapons with bigger blessing pool.

Like rolling infantry lasguns is 99,9% ends with Bettween the Eyes and Ghost blessings.

Despite it being mundane everyday workhorse gun (from the lore perspective) it’s a pure torture to get some nice blessings+perks+stats combo.

[UnLimiTeD]

@aaakm

I don’t want “perfect” rolls

@XeroShinobi

I want perfect rolls

There shouldn’t even be ‘perfect rolls’ in the game. Perfect rolls mean a loss of choice and variety.
And I choose to believe that that is what fatshark was going for, and then failed at.
We have 5x80 = 400 rating points for the currently best possible rolls, yet only 380 theoretically available points to put into that system.
IFF the stats were actually balanced to the point where you’d still want a 65% damage auto rifle for its other qualities, or where a lower base rating equated better blessings, this would potentially be a beautiful system.

As it is , it is not, almost every weapon has exactly one perfect configuration, and, what’s worse, that configuration is theoretically reachable, but not hidden behind challenges or just simple grind, but pure randomness with too many layers.
If Fatshark just told players “Those are the three choices, pick two”, I think we could live with that.
But instead, they tell us “you could have everything. Just try a few thousand more times. Because we want you coming back.”
Similarly, while there’s certainly “good enough” configurations, and I personally have no problem whatsoever lifting one of those to orange and rolling with it, I can understand that it feels bad to players to spend that many precious resources on second line equipment - as it would feel like that to them.
Or the frustration of having just spent a weeks worth of resources into rolling a good weapon and crafting it to the best of our limited abilities, then find a slightly better base the next game.
We should be ecstatic, but really, we’re just frustrated.

Ultimately, most humans seem to judge their time spent, and enjoyment, retroactively.
We can have great fun in an engaging RPG, and then a bad conclusion, or bad late game mechanics 30 hours in, sour the entire experience, and we feel like we wasted time, money, and emotion on something that we ultimately enjoyed for 80% of the time.
There really should be a way to reliably get better equipment.
It should be limited, and expensive, and maybe not even the best way on average, but it would be reliable.
Like how Path of Exile had chance-based crafting, but if you pay way more, you can get reliable results that will often be good enough. The pricing could be notably more agressive than they have it in Darktide, and it would still provide a vent for discontent. I personally don’t see it as as big of a problem as others here, based purely on mechanics, but it is certainly irritating, and frustrating, and I think those are just things that shouldn’t be part of a game. Similar to how I don’t play an FPS with a gamepad because I prefer to fight the enemies, not the controls, the crafting just doesn’t feel like it should be as much of a challenge as it is.

[Tempest_yo]

Don’t waste too much energy on him.

His takes on every crafting thread would be the equivalent of me going into every cosmetic thread, and talking about how they don’t matter because I don’t care about them therefore you are whiny if you do. Therefore, I am big penis epic sex haver because I am not cry baby for wanting less atrocious MTX with massive clipping issues.

He’s here to pump his ego nothing more.

[Flawless]

@NemesisNidhoggr
“I personally do not care and only my own (ill informed) opinion matters, so everyone who points out that the system is bad, is wrong.“

[Bababoofa]

@NemesisNidhoggr

Consecration is there just as something to do. Because game is objectively underdeveloped. So at least it’s a side activity for people, who interested in it. You wanna chase god rolls? Go ahead, do it. Just dont expect it to be fast or reliable. It’s a gamble. And you willingly participate in that.

It’s real problem is it kills any chance I try different builds.

If I want to try my axe with 2 different builds and it’s BM and shread or head taker I can’t try both quickly.

I got to got to brunt then go finish 3-4 games and since I only play auric dam and auric maelstrom it’s more like every 6-10 games.

Because no one slows down in hard content you get 500-600 plassteel instead of 750+ it’s even longer.

I actually agree with you on don’t care for God rolls since normal can clear hardest content but at the same time I hate how I can’t just try a new build idea with out a unknown amount of hours of grinding.

[Guiz]

They changed the talent system to give more freedom to players. But the crafting is in total contradiction with this idea. Tide game’s are about trying builds and differents ways to play the game, thats is why players stay for hundreds of hours.
And this crafting system does not encourage this. For certains build you really need the right stats or blessings, but have to go through several layers of bad rng before being able to try what you wanted.
Finally this is just a bad way to retain players, because we dont need this to put a lot of hours in the game, this is going to have the opposite effect of the initial goal since it is just frustrating and a sign that the devs either dont play their game or just dont care.
If you are happy with it good for you, but it seems like your opinion is not shared by the majority.