Honestly, dunno, we are playing different games… no sarcasm, I really find this “weird”.
There are too many variables to be able to judge if an even is too difficult purely by looking at how many fail. Sure if the fail rate is 90% thensure, there is an issue.
Also if fs decides to nerf those events,which i dont think they should, pls do it only on legend and not cata.
Well, you won’t get any measure more objective than data generated over thousand of games. What other criteria for too hard would you chose if not fail rate alone?
You can take death count into it too as there might be the possibility that mobile classes just kite around until the ship comes (as there is a lot of space) and others already died. That I have seen before a few times. Even then you could make it so that it is a feature. There is nothing in gamedesign which tells you that you should be able to kill everything, so mainly kiting would make for a different experience (similar to the Pit).
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I’m just saying there are too many variables to using fail rate, you can use fail rate if you keep in mind of all the variables and take them into account and measure them aswell.
I think that they have the required data to differentiate between bad play and overwhelming odds in end events, it just comes down to looking through the data that exists.
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Engine end overall is not hard, but it can have spikes. I had fail with a dozen+ SSV plus 2-3 batch of monks on top, or 8-10 CW with berzerkers, but these are the exceptional cases.
Just wanna add aswell. It’s weird it’s coming from @Froh which i know has done season 1 and 2 weaves. If it came from someone not used to playing on legend i would understand. Maybe he is talking for his friends or something.
Horn:
Not sure if that’s necessary. The barrel event isn’t hard at all. Although, I do think you should at least respawn right after the door instead of all the way at the tower. After the barrel event you often have to deal with another horde and sometimes a patrol before you’re able to revive your teammates.
Convocation:
Has had enough nerfs for now. Just practice.
Fort BumbleBee:
Also balanced. Bad teamplay kills a lot of games here. (bad positioning, not escorting the player that is going for the cannonball, going for a revive on your own)
Something that might help a bit is giving this event a better respawn point. In the place where you respawn now it’s too easy to get stuck.
Skittergate boss:
Balanced. I find it a bit of a tedious fight in cata tho.
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Well, I’m kinda in charge of the french community of a big discord, so I usually play with a lot of lowers levels myself to “teach the game”.
So if I’m asking for thoses changes, it’s that I see legend able players struggling with thoses particular maps. I do not speak for them (they didn’t say anything), but I see pugs and them having a hard time with thoses listed events (for the stated reasons).
Again I don’t think everything I list needs a huge nerf or something. Sometimes, a minor change could be enough. But this is thoses parts that have been highlighted through my various games.
And this is why I did emphasize thoses issues on legend rather than on cataclysm, where it’s fine to have hard stuff, as you’re usually ether in a premade, or with veteran picks ups
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But why not teach them if you see them struggeling?
I’m being a bit specific because I think that level design wise, thoses specific things make some events a bit more frustrating than others which means that they’re probably not within the difficulty space they did try to reach with thoses events. (not sure I’m understandable :p)
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Convocation of Decay I’m firmly in the belief that players just need to learn to give up ground and jump down when things get too tough. Our group was seriously struggling until we started to do that. However I think disabler specials here are a low blow.
Fort, on the other hand, is just… intense. Intense and unrelenting, and I think it’s one of the finales that punishes book runs the most, as the biggest issue here is how quickly your resources are drained.
On the other chance, there ARE a few healing items, hidden around here.
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Again Convo of decay have a challenge that requires to STAY IN THE POOL. You can’t jump down.
Fort is unrelenting only near the end, and no challenge requires you to stay in a small room of moving. (which doesn’t mean it is fine, but it means convo is harder)
Yes, but I wouldn’t make balance changes based on these.
A bunch of the legend map challenges are literally “do the finale in the hardest way possible”.
For example, the best strategy in Garden of Morr and Screaming Bell is to break 1 chain (or cluster of chains, in SB’s case), hold your ground until you deal with all the elites this spawns, and then move onto the next one and repeat the process. This is the easiest, most efficient and safest way to do these finales.
What’s Garden of Morr’s challenge? Break them all super fast lmao get rekt. Which is insane, you gotta coordinate and spread out, each on their own chain, break them -all- and then survive the result of that, while everyone is on their own.
So again, I don’t think the finales should be balanced around making the legend challenges easier, considering the legend challenges are “do it in the worst possible way”
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It’s a part of the Helmgart Challenge, and they kinda all are a bit difficult, but here, we’re nearing insane (for legend able players, again). So yeah, I would surely balance on thoses.
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The skittergate lightning, sure, but even i think it’s doable and in your control, but i’ll probably be an elitist for saying that.
The respawn, sure, it’s out of your control.
Tweaking events down, because a challenge is too difficult for legend able players, no. I am ‘cata able’ and i wiped a couple times on doing that challenge on convo and that was before the nerf and was it difficult? Sure.
I’m still of the opinion that in this case it’s a player or team issue rather than event issue.
they already nerfed all these events into the ground.
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Note that apart from Convo of decay (and with the challenge requirement or even without because it’s kinda harder than others challenges even when dropping off), I do not ask for too much of a nerf.
So there will be little change in difficulty. It’s mostly to bring them “on par” with other events.
Finale events are tricky because they must not be too much of a hassle as they come directly at the end of the map. Therefore when you lose on a “kinda unfair” finale event, you consider the whole map as boring.
Cf. all the skittergate skip (players did suicide at the beginning to start another map) a long time ago, because the map “was long” => it wasn’t that longer, it’s just that there was specially difficult part for the playerbase at the end. Therefore you knew you would spend 20mn+ for no reward.
That’s also a bit what prevented V1 to be as attractive as V2. End events were hard, and new players couldn’t finish a map and therefore progress.
Recruit is one of the solution on V2, but it’s kinda boring for some players as well.
Now I’m okay to have events having a peak difficulty and needing strategy, and the point is not to remove the need of a strategy. It’s just to leverage the difficult events to the same level of difficulty.
So bringing a bit down the more difficult ones, sometimes, by a huge margin, and why not, bringing up the way too easy events to harder ones.
No they factually did not as they did add a specific system in WoM to actually make them harder in harder difficulties. Currently, nearly ALL the events in legend are harder than before WoM.
They did try to nerf Convo, but it was indeed too easy, and here, it’s back to hard. (a bit less hard than before the “nerf”, but still hard)
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Skittergate was because it was a long map, it still is depending on your team comp and if your team has barely any dps for the final boss fight it’s better to skip to another map unless you wanna take it slow and spend 30 mins chipping away it’s health, this isn’t the event, this is a career issue. If we make the end event easier skittergate will honestly become one of the easiest maps.
Recruit is a drastic option, you can try and go champion or ask around what the best way to do a certain event is.
You don’t wanna remove all strategy but you wanna remove some enemies because thats the only way i can think of to nerf an event, unless you realy wanna change how an event works and change timers. So you need a bit of strategy because of the enemies coming at you, if you remove them a bit it removes the strategy, unless you wanna remove 1 sv.
What are the too easy events? So we can see your middleground.
Convocation got harder in wom, then they nerfed alot of events, but they nerfed convocation a bit too much (not sure if you tested it) and it’s honestly fine now, it’s not unfair anymore which is why events need nerfing.
Note that I did not ask for a nerf on that one, except on a possible slow down when only one remains (which isn’t a big nerf to the event difficulty) to allow comeback.
Try convo with a pug group in legend, and see how they are playing. Did that 2 days ago.
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