Sienna's Next Weapons

Seeing Kerrilian awoke a creative flame for Sienna’s new weapons:

  • Melee
  • Melee with Shield
  • Ranged (AoE)
  • Ranged (Support)
  • Mixed (Melee with Ranged Special)
  • Mixed (Ranged with Melee Special)

0 voters

Kerrilian’s Deepwood Staff has the ability to lift an entity up, marking them with a red outline to show which has been selected, Sienna could also make use of such a mechanic for her staves

EG:

Spear of Myrmidia: Single Target Spell (Or maybe if possible the ability to tag more than 1 enemy)

[Light] Simple light shot
[Heavy] Highlight an enemy, after a few second a pillar of fire rise from under the enemy (also damaging the surrounding but it’s not a big radius)

Shield of Aqshy: Protective Spell

[Light] Simple light shot
[Heavy] Charge up a spell (can be interrupted by enemy attack) after a few second a shield will appear around:
a. Ally you are pointing toward
b.Yourself (if you aren’t pointing toward anyone)

Wing of Fire: Ethereal Wing of Fire, can be used to fly

[Light] Simple light shot, like the Bolt Staff but in the shape of feather
[Heavy] Dash in the direction of your current movement dealing light damage on the way

Crimson Bands: Throw band of Molten metal that slow enemies, would be the first weapon Sienna has that make use of Ammo

1 Like

Okay, the Wing of Fire idea sounds ridiculously cool. :smiley:

I think I’ll abstain from voting, because I would honestly be perfectly happy with any one of the options listed. I’ll only add a suggestion that I’ve seen floating around in the Vermintide community that is just too cool not to do, the Fire Whip:

4 Likes

Moonbow has pushed Sienna out of the friendly-fire meta and clearly whatever FS adds has to rectify this.

6 Likes

The problem I have with Whips [and Doomseeker] is that they are supposed to work at a medium range and not in melee

So I think there is 2 way to fix that:

  • Whip as a secondary [same as Rapier and Pistol] working on the special attack button

  • Ranged, working as a short range Ranged weapon with no ammo

Eg: Kerrilian with Beastlord Spear and Whip [Like Rakarth from the DE] could work as option 1

Doomseeker as option 2

Sienna could work as either

Pretty much this and the reason why I never understood the call for Whips. A whip would have to be a ranged weapon because you can’t use it for blocking, even less a whip consisting of elemental fire. A Fire Chain “might” work better in that regard although it still isn’t really a melee weapon. So ranged weapon it has to be, which means giving up one of her staves. That is a tough restriction.

Yea, that does look like speedrunners and solo-players steamy (wet+fire) dream. I am not exactly enthusiastic about it.

How would this be different from Coruscation Stuff other than the aiming mechanic? Or does the cone wander with the target?

How long does the shield stay? Per time or per damage? Also what would be the function of a fire shield. “Area of denial” making other players a prefered enemy target? Blocking damage which is unintuitive for an elemental fire shield? Or by dealing damage to enemies which are close to the player? Last makes the most sense but would be more an offense tool instead of a shield.

I always love weapons that let you play in a new way, and I have my own bias for support roles, which I have loved with sister of the thorn and healshare.

I had a not-altogether dissimilar idea in this theme - it would be an AOE dissipation shield. It could protect the target unit against gas, bile, and green flame (direct and ground effects) while dealing a light DOT to melee range enemies. I think 10 seconds would be long enough to make it worthwhile, but you could play with the buff duration and the overcharge cost.

This would be very cool from a support perspective, allowing you to give an ally some additional staying power in a horde. It would also be a cool synergy with unchained, who can reduce damage from burning enemies. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense to deflect blows or projectiles, but I think dissipating AOES makes some sense and deflecting green flame is plausible.

Another interesting direction to explore would be a(nother) melee weapon that functions a little like a magic weapon. The flame sword does this a little, but I’d like to see the dynamic explored more, like with a rapier/pistol sort of mechanic.

FOR EXAMPLE - maybe a sword + flame whip combo? The sword is your default melee / blocking utility, but the weapon special triggers a whip attack that has a max range and reverse damage falloff - that is, it does good damage at like 4 meters but does almost nothing in melee range.

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My idea for a new Sienna stave is based around the Sanguine Blade sepll

The primary fire is just little sharp spikes with decent damage but not fantastic accuracy. Relatively fast-firing, so at short and mid range you can blast into a big enemy or horde.

Secondary fire creates magical fire swords around Sienna - the longer you charge, the more appear, up to, say, five. These swords provide a passive damage reduction while up (more with each sword), but each hit taken removes a sword. Otherwise, they last for something like 10-20 seconds, and the overcharge generated does not dissipate unless intentionally vented.

You can fire these fire swords off, and they’re fairly accurate and very good damage. So this is essentially a ranged weapon that is strong but requires foresight at when to use them, and you want to get them prepared before the clash begins. Once you have them up, you have both a strong defensive and offensive option available and it becomes a question of how you want to use them. Like a lot of the best ults in the game, their value is multi-faceted and you have to consider the most appropriate use of them in any given situation.

This could get too strong on Unchained; but I think you could, lore-speaking, restrict this staff on her if you wanted; the whole “Unchained” concept is pretty unique, but given that she’s let herself go, it could easily be that she can no longer control her abilities to such a specific and fine degree.

I don’t really understand the point of worrying about minuscule details like game mechanics in a thread like this. Fatshark are never going to directly implement a community designed weapon no matter how much effort a fan or a group of fans puts into the mechanics. I’m pretty sure the designers want to create their own content instead of using the playerbase as a kind of unofficial design team. The best we can hope is that a suggestion inspires Fatshark to create something of their own. For that, all that is needed is throwing ideas out there, not arguing with other posters about what exactly happens on a hypothetical weapon’s heavy attack.

The hand-wringing about how whips would work is a great example of pointless detail. If third-person action games like the Dark Souls series have figured out whips as melee weapons years ago, Vermintide 2 is going to have exactly zero trouble with the concept. All that is required is that someone at Fatshark likes the idea enough to push for its implementation. Yes, you can block and even parry with whips in pretty much every game that I can think of that has featured whips as melee weapons over the years. No, it’s not realistic, but neither is magically animated fire in the first place.

The biggest hurdle to a whip has nothing to do with game mechanics and everything to do with the work involved in animating such a weapon. Creating an entirely new set of animations for a single weapon type would eat up more resources than any other DLC weapon so far. Most weapons in the game are simply static sticks with no internal animations of their own, unlike a flexible cord that would have to be animated extensively to make it look fluid in motion. That, I feel, is a more convincing argument against the implementation of a Fire Whip for Sienna than the idea that whips are not supposed to be melee weapons. Especially since completely mundane whips have been melee weapons in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay since the 1st Edition of the game.

1 Like

I don’t understand how anyone can be opposed to blocking with a whip but not care about blocking with a tiny hammer, dagger or axe and your hand. As for a staff I’d like to see something that works similarly to the Deepwood Staff primary fire, a pin point short barrage of fireballs with the last inflicting burn. I’d give it a charged attack like the beam staff for crowds, more for staggering and spreading burn than raw damage.

It’s largely because theorizing is fun, and also - Fatshark does listen to its fans and have even used modder’s work in balancing. So, there is a chance they will listen, but largely it is just an interesting and engaging way of sharing enjoyment with other fans of the game.

2 Likes

Totally this. I used to make games as a hobby but haven’t had the steam for it ever since I started writing software for a living. It’s fun to armchair design mechanics and just see what sticks to the wall.

Another idea - similar to the staff that casts a flame shield - what about a literal flame shield? Sienna doesn’t have any shield weapons yet, maybe she could have an actual physical shield that’s wreathed in flame? And blocking gives some AOE protection (at high overcharge?) in addition to regular shield stuff.

That could be too strong, but it’d be hella cool.

1 Like

We have to wait. I think a Shield weapon even imbued with fire magic is a realistic option if she really goes down the Blazing Sun route. Don’t think we will get the answer on that this year though :stuck_out_tongue:

Shield and Spear seem to be a given with Myrmidia, but the shield would be a Round Shield

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I definitely did not mean to suggest that threads like these are useless, quite the opposite. I distinctly remember that at least the Griffon-foot and Trollhammer Torpedo were ideas floating around in the community years before Fatshark implemented them in the Forgotten Relics DLC. Ditto for Bows of Avelorn, something I seem to remember suggesting myself at one point, and which materialized as the Moonfire Bow long after the fact. That’s the kind of content I have in mind when I say that the best we can hope for is Fatshark being inspired by community suggestions. Whether the above weapons really were ideas from the playerbase or whether their inclusion in the game was just a happy coincidence is anyone’s guess.

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Yeah, I see what you mean. We can’t really know for sure, can we? I’ve offered a lot of ideas, it’s one of my favorite activities on the forum. Javelin, is another great example; its qualities of good damage (but I believe less than Throwing Axe), good stagger, and good cleave, even how you can simply summon more magically, while the ones you throw decay away - I offered that suggestion before. I might have even suggested the melee poke, but I can’t recall.

But all of those things make a lot of sense both because of the specific qualities of a javelin and in Warhammer (in Total Warhammer, that’s exactly how Orion gets more of his throwing spears). So it’s entirely likely that the similarities are just coincidences.

Based upon current power creep, it’ll be a melta gun.

1 Like

Whip weapon could also come for Darktide/40k, Clan Esher got a new weapon that is the Shock whip

This guy get it, that actually something I would had love to hd instead of flail :slight_smile:

Either a dagger + fire whip combo or a light cudgel + fire shield both of which can tap into the overcharge mechanic to a smaller extent then ranged weapons.

Light attacks or combo hits with fire whip (mostly using dagger - whip is for flair and charged attack / 3rd mouse button) would apply a DoT while a heavy attack would have a higher amount of cleave / spread with greater DoT while applying a bit of overcharge. Would be for new class and Battlemage / Pyromancer.

Fire Shield could do some small DoT on block and it’s charged attack could have Sienna channel a blast of fire through the shield and out at her enemies for distanced stagger, small or medium damage, small DoT + a bit of overcharge. Cudgel would just be used to basic beat down - nothing too interesting with it. This weapon would be for new class and at least Unchained.

Not sure on using the 3rd mouse button for attacks. I could see the whip having some sort of root/grapple ability that would have a longer animation with greater risk to it’s use - perhaps a root with the whip heating up for damage or something. Risk reward. Fire shield I’m not sure about - perhaps gaining overcharge to heat up the cudgel or shield for greater effect but with some sort of cooldown so it’s like a 1 click buff that you can’t always use with an animation of maybe like 3 seconds? Idk.

edit: These are just some rough ideas - no idea if they are supported at all by lore and whatnot.

edit 2: Also Dagger and Whip wouldn’t be as spammy compared to the usual Dagger and dodge distance / count would probably be less as well. Shield maybe 1 less stamina and a bit less block angle as it’s more retaliatory with a charged attack that has a bit more reach then the usual shield. Bit better dodging (distance and or limit) so it’s more of a light shield in that regard.

I want her to have more melee magic besides firesword. Actual magic, not just a normal weapon that happens to be on fire.

Like a bright wizard themed khopesh or stiletto blade (or anything Estalia appropriate) where part of the attack animation is the blade flying on its own while Sienna follows its attack with a spell.

1 Like
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