Shield stormvermin are tedious to fight

Edit -> people are misreading what I’ve said here, so let me do a tl;dr version:

I’m not complaining about them being overpowered, I’m complaining that they’re extremely unfun during swarms or when they attack in pairs. There’s extremely narrow counterplay for shield vermin if you don’t have a weapon designed to beat them, and relying on others at higher difficulties or during boss/swarm encounters isn’t always possible.

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They’re not too bad with the flail or some of the weapons that can beat armor, but how are you supposed to beat them if you don’t have one of those? You can’t headshot them because they magically raise their shield to block incoming projectiles, even if they’re mid-attack or not paying attention to you. Also, unlike the other shield enemies, they never drop their shield no matter how many hits they take, so unless you can flank them it can end up taking a ridiculous amount of time to kill these guys. But then sometimes you can’t rely on flanking, due to enemy swarms, your positioning, or the environment.

I know success is a team effort, but I don’t think characters should be hard-countered by a single type of unit. You can normally kill armored units even with non-armor piercing weapons by using charged attacks or headshots. However, the way shield vermin block makes it extremely difficult to get these attacks off in their brief (if even existent) openings.

I’m probably doing something wrong, but I’d literally rather fight a patrol of normal stormvermin than a pair of shielded ones (and It’d probably take less time, honestly). Maybe they should drop their guard after like 5 attacks, or at the very least have a smaller block angle so it’s easier to flank them?

35 Likes

I can headshot them with ranged and melee. Their head is just very small above the shield, you have to aim very precisely.

If you or your group have problems with Shield Vermin, why not dedicate one guy to get the Armor Piercing Weapon? Like, I dunno, that is how teamwork, you know, works? The game tells you “Shield Vermin are strong against all Weapons that dont break Shields / Armor”. Your reaction is “Nerf it”. My reaction is “How can I beat those guys”.

7 Likes

I prefaced that I know the ways to beat them, and I’m not trying to nerf something for being ‘overpowered’. I want to nerf something for being horribly unfun and slowing down the pace of the game.

What I’m complaining about is that they stand out amongst all the other enemies as being excessively annoying to deal with for no real good reason. Especially on champion difficulty and above, when they start attacking in waves with other enemies, and relying on just one guy to handle that enemy becomes increasingly impossible.

Nearly every build has counterplay to deal with the different enemy & boss types in some way, even in last-stand scenarios; Like I said in my post, you ‘can’ beat armored enemies without armor-piercing weapons. So why should shield stormvermin be the exception to that?

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Personally, I think making the shield shatter from blows would be a good change. Maybe 8 times or so?

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i woudn’t say “no” to this. Skaven aren’t known for the reliability of their work, afterall. And having Stormvermin have unbreakable shields as strong as an ironbreakers…

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They already made regular stormvermin so trivial it’s not even fun, i’m happy with how hard to kill they are. They are the skaven’s elite after all.

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I’m ok with them being able to handle a good amount of punishment, but right now their counter play seems exceptionally narrow. Their blocking arc is not only massive, but they also turn to face it with no regards to any concept even approximating the physics everything else works under. They are extremely resistant to being knocked down or staggered, they magically block the majority of the headshot hitbox, and their Skaven-made shield is completely unbreakable.

IMO their shield should, eventually, fail under repeated attacks and fail faster from shield destroying weapons. Enough to where it would be impractival but possible from a single player, but relatively quick for multiple. Additionally their blocking arc should be slightly smaller to appropriately reward flanking. This should give groups that flail a less frustrating opponent that is still an issue in horde, while giving more organized teams more appropriate counterplay.

12 Likes

I agree because they are not “hard” to kill. They are just frustraiting to kill. Also shield is hilarious. It’s size of barely their chest yet they block hits to legs, sides and 99% of their head. It’s some sort of energy shield emitter or something?

I think Shield should break after certain amount of hits - like 8 from normal attacks, 3-4 from Heavy attacks. Right now 5 shield SV is just them being perma staggered and players perma spamming attacks at them till they die- entertaining, isn’t it?

14 Likes

Well they shouldn’t be able to block hits from behind for once and yes the shield should shatter or the opening after you hit multiple times should be longer. Right now they’re incredibly frustrating to fight with 99% of the weapons and they’re not even balanced as it’s ridiculously easy to kill them with a beam staff for example since they get hit multiple times per second and get their shield on the side really quickly. It feels like they need to be more fleshed out than they are.

2 Likes

Simple.

Walk up to them and do 3 charged attacks with your melee weapon. That knocks their shield out wide and they are exposed long enough to get 2 more charged hits on their heads without the shield in the way.

Ranged weapons aren’t always the solution. That’s why you have a melee weapon too.

That said, I have seen them throw shields out wide when I shoot them 3 times with the normal attack with the conflag staff for sienna, then I pop them twice more in the head.

Yes, they are annoying when they turtle up behind the shield but they are far from unbeatable. Use charge attacks and hit them when the shield is flung out to the side.

edit

For INFO when I get their shields wide I have done so using 2H mace and the Longsword on Sienna, as well as the 1H mace + shield on bardin, the spear on Kerilian and a multitude of other weapons.

That’s true but when you have to low hero power the stagger don’t work so well.

But I just can’t see why OP can’t go at their back and backstab them to death…
OK One person have aggro that could be our op, but what other 3 persons are doing??

Beside if you wait little and let them attack you go for side dodge and they are wide open.

like rly stop CRYING OP learn the game.

1 Like

He is not crying for them being hard to kill but beinf frustraiting and unfun to kill. They are just bad desgined. You should learn to read before making comments like that.

Unfun mechanic does not equal challange

5 Likes

No you should learn basic fight. I actually think that they mechanic is one of best in this game.

Oh no you can’t stand still and win. Oh no!

You seem to be very dense… You actually think they their mechanic is one of the best?

Guess what Einstein- some people don’t agree with your opinion and think otherwise! It’s called different opinion. People have them. I know, shocking… Then accept the fact that some of us believe that spamming attacks on unbreakable shield is by no means a good mechanic. or funny mechanic.

I have nothing against making them harder in a way that is not just irritating and tiresome.

Also your last sarcastic comment only proves you should not be taken seriously.

5 Likes

Ok I will quote you, and please tell me how HARD is to dodge left and attack them with no shielding involved (I guess right side doge is frustrating for you).

If you tell me that. I will consider that maybe i rush with my comment.

It does for normal enemies, but someone got bright idea that it shouldnt for blackrats.

Actually because of the shield they are easiest one to crowd control as theyll back off after any hit, its just annoying hit sponge and not much more with regular stormvermin being more dangerous.

Please what part of side dodge and attacking with no shield you don’t understand?

What part of i can ignore them and swing at the horde cause they do nothing but stand there soaking hits do you not understand?

1 Like

You are still dense, you can’t even read with understanding and you miss quote me. So let me please paste you my full sentence here and then explain you step by step what I meant by it:

He is not crying for them being hard to kill but being frustraiting and unfun to kill

Now - if you read it correctly what I mean and OP is that they are NOT HARD to kill. They are FRUSTRAITING AND UNFUN TO KILL. See the difference? Why you ask me to tell you how hard is to dodge and kill them- where the hell did I say they are HARD to kill?

I said they are frustraiting and unfun. Not that they are hard to kill, but the way shield mechanic works is just not entertaining/challenging/difficult at all.

I hope you understand know what do we mean.

5 Likes
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