Pretty much. Only when the pain reaches their wallets and threatens public humiliation do these kind of companies actually start paying attention to things. And even if the studio is forced to change, they will backslide as soon as the pressure drops off.
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Even that would still be selling recolors. Changing #FF5733 to #5B2C6F shouldn’t cost a thing. Especially not as single purchases for single items. In essence:
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Question for people who think recolours are unacceptable:
What makes the second/additional colour/texture variant(s) less valuable/worthy of sale than the original?
I completely understand the desire for the release of additional base cosmetics (ie, completely different cosmetics/sets) rather than a recolour/retexture of existing ones, but people are arguing that once a given set with a given colour/texture is released, that any subsequent variants on that base cosmetic/set are somehow an insult. Why?
Is it because you buy the one that you’re first presented with, then are later presented with a colour/texture scheme that you’d prefer over the one you bought? That is, is it the lack of advertising that there actually are multiple variants that’s actually the problem?
Would you still take issue with this if all of the variants were presented for sale at the same time, or there was some clear messaging that another variant would be available in a future sales window?
At this point I don’t believe anyone outside CM’s read feedback.
And the only way to get attention to these behaviors to people that matter is for big named youtubers to call them out on it, and it never happens.
Even the ones who make darktide content seem hesitant to push out vids calling out ThinEels behaviors.
Guess those partnerships really are more important than principles.
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Cause they want to sell us something that needed a lot less work at the same price of the first item.
I am ok to pay more for a model than a simple texture…
But I am not ok to pay several times an highly overpriced item just to get a recolor of it.
There is no real work behind that…
This is just a slap in the face of their customers.
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I personally see it as them creating a problem and selling a solution. It stinks to me because they are charging full price again for work already mostly done, and because they are effectively restricting/not implementing features (dye system, accessory customisation, etc.) to sell more.
Add to that the funny money layer and all the other dark patterns they loaded into the game for the cash shop, it makes me personally not want to buy anything.
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What makes one variant more valuable than another though?
From the seller’s perspective, the work/cost is spread across all variants.
From the buyer’s perspective, it’s reasonable to expect that most people will have a preferred variant, right? Why would it matter if all variants cost the same? The value to the buyer is the same.
Like, we might argue that all skins should be cheaper becuase the cost of production is spread across multiple variants, but that’s not the argument people are making. They’re saying that all variants after the original should be cheaper, or that there just shouldn’t be any after the original.
This is valid IMO.
One point is… we cannot choose the variant. It is more, take that color or die.
Applying a texture takes no work. The price is too high that’s sure.
In fact they have worked on models and just retexture them.
And when you check the price of one set, it is the price of one DLC for a lot of games.
So, a retexture of a model doesn’t worth that…
Especially if you have already bought one identical model.
For your info, lot of texture are already there. They did not split the price between all possible variants, cause there are already lot of textures.
I would accept an high price to get a model, but not for just a texture )and see above for a system I would like)
You can though, you just need to wait for the variant you want to appear in the store. At this point we know that they’re selling variants and that they cycle through them periodically.
With this, we’re back to the question of whether the true issue is that there’s insufficient advertising about the fact that they do sell variants. I.e, if they made it clear when you visit the store that they were going to sell variants X, Y and Z, would this still be an issue?
Like I said, I can understand if someone is mad about buying a variant, unaware that there were others, and then seeing one they’d prefer appear in the next shop cycle, but that’s a problem of FS hiding information about what they’re selling rather than the cost of items.
If that’s true, all we’re really paying for is the base model, which is identical for both the original and any variants. And if that’s true, why should there be a cost difference between variant A and B?
To be clear, this is separate from the topic of whether prices are reasonable. That’s a whole other line of discussion…
Do you know how many possible combinations exist? Go and download FtD yourself and take a look. There is probably thousands of different combos per item. Each item uses a color, a material, and a camo pattern. To give you an idea of what I mean, there are currently over 50 different camo patterns in the game. Each of which can be used with a separate color and a separate material. I cannot be bothered to count up how many different colors there are, but it’s a lot more than camo patterns, and there are a few dozen different materials. Just presume though that there are 50 camo patterns, 75 colors, and 24 materials. That means currently each piece of regular cosmetic wear (not including the backpack) has somewhere in the neighborhood of 90,000 variations. The shop is on a two-week rotation. Please, for the love of God, just accept that this is not acceptable and that they need to shelve recolors for good and implement a system like FtD that the player’s can use to customize their own gear.
4 Likes
I believe FS said themselves that the appeal of cosmetics is other people seeing them. As long as other people can’t see them you have free reign to really do whatever you want.
I’ll be happy to talk with you about this, but please respond with context in mind rather than looking at one isolated paragraph from one post in a chat. There’s only 2 or 3 responses in the chain, so it won’t take long.
No you can’t
You have no guarentee that THIS model will come back in… let’s say… royal blue or yellow or whatever you would like to see.
I like the camo desert textures, however not all…
Guess what… not everything come in camo desert.
No it takes no time to apply a texture when you created the model.
What you don’t understand is that they already own like 100 textures… and they have the models.
- they surely don’t need to sell like 100 variants at the current prices we see in game to get to the ROI and get a decent income
- We will never have any way to know if the color we want will be released
- Seriously the prices are overpriced considering the number of texture existing (considering your theory “the work/cost is spread across all variants” which is incorrect in term of real work)
Here an idea of the number of textures:
Let’s add that we can also change materials (so texture of the cosmetic) and apply a pattern…
Lot of possibilities… but lack of possibilities when we, actually in the current system, buy a cosmetic
And at the end of the day, this is the biggest problem… This total lack of control on what we buy and what we can get at a very high price (seriously more expansive than a DLC for a Total war game 
).
Especially when we call about recoloring cosmetics.
So, all this concurs, at least for me, to a situation where I feel that prices are too high. Cause of all these possibilities but the lack of control on what we could buy, cause it would give them no work to give us freedom and have something pleasant and still earn money, cause the price they ask doesn’t reflect the work behind this and on this last topic… cause when you pay so much for so little, it looks like a scam.
When I compare to the price of a DLC for AAA games… seriously… you can’t say me that the prices they ask are correct and not higher than commonly found in other games.
I want to support the game. I have bought lot of cosmetics. But, they have even increased prices while what they sell is horrible. Cause let not lie. They sell frustration.
You can’t get this outfit you like in the color you want, you can’t remove this detail, you may one day see what you would wish, or not… they sell frustration, but the worst, they ask you a kidney for more frustration.
Forgot to answer this…
For me, and I say it, for me, yes.
As I said, I can understand that they ask a decent price for a new model. I can even understand they ask a little price for complex textures.
I cannot accept to get recolor of models I already owns.
Rewarding the big work done to create a cosmetic is totally legit. But texture application is something you link with the cosmetic creation. And once you have the texture, when you have finished your model you can release this cosmetic with whatever color you want.
Off course, rewarding the work done to create a texture, I can understand it. But, let’s say it,the creation of a model takes more time than a simple texture.
And they could give us more freedom and still get their money.
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100%. Fatshark could take a leaf from Deep Rock Galactic’s book and lower the prices of cosmetics - maybe selling bundles including 4 full-fledged and reasonably customisable skins that would cost what a single cosmetic item does as of now.
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Let’s end the recolors. Let’s start a new era of cosmetics!
Suggestion / Inspiration: Cosmetic Painting System + Hallowette implementation
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would like such system that, on paper, is what I propose (but better spelled 
- Sure english is not my native tongue)
To fatshark (@FatsharkCatfish)
I have bought a lot of cosmetics… but all what I described in my last post will lead to a situation where I won’t keep supporting you via cosmetics purchases. Anyways, I have tons of cosmetics and when you propose models we have, with just a recolor, I don’t want to feel scammed.
And to be complete, I can afford the cosmetics… this is just I won’t cause your business policy is too toxic.
I could understand at the start of the game… but now… give us freedom with something we paid for.
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I get the feeling that I understand what’s going on better than most people here.
A, it isn’t a theory, it’s literally how these things are calculated in terms of business expenses.
B, the prices they sell them for have almost nothing to do with the cost of creating them.
Likewise, the total number of possible colour/texture combinations means precisely zip. It has no bearing on the price of a cosmetic under this model. Specific combos? Absolutely. But the total number of possibilities? Nope.
You go to a store and see a shirt in a colour you like, so you buy it. I don’t like that colour, so I don’t buy it, but I come back in a week and there’s an identical shirt in the colour I like so do I buy that. Both shirts cost the same to buy. That’s the model they’re using here. They’re not trying to sell you the same shirt in a different colour, they’re trying to get both of us to buy a shirt by selling it in our respective favourite colours.
1 Like
In short, start leaving negative reviews, and encourage everyone who is also unhappy to do the same. The closest we’ve gotten to an apology has been when reviews dipped to something like 30% positive on Steam.
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Chiming in I think as stated it’s that it’s selling a solution to a problem they created and it’s the sting that other games which are full F2P games have done this system but far better.
Doing rough math 1000 for 5 bucks means that it’s about a dollar for 200 Aquilas. So something like the Nox wars helmets sold in a bundle is 3 bucks total WHICH INCLUDED BOTH COLOUR VARIANTS.
Yet the steel legion helmet is 1400 Aquilas which is 7 DOLLARS, for a RECOLOUR WITH SLIGHT MODIFICATIONS. Of course due to the funny money layer you can’t just buy the karking helmet, you need to spend 9 -10 to get the pack. Never mind that the pricing is just all over the place for helmets, uniforms, and weapons. There is some value in the packs but the pricing is just arbitrarily.
I keep thinking back to warframe because they have actually different skins and cosmetics for premium skins, you can recolour to your hearts content (mind you sone pallets you need to pay for however it’s a free to play game), and the funny money you can actually get for free and is often used as a trade currency so you can trade some higher tier items for plat.
It is also given out pretty regularly with twitch drops and other events. I think people are especially mad about it because the FTD mod showed how easy it would be to just give us a colour slider.
Hell, Dawn of War had a colour slider.
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This is the point of view of a corporation. They want earning money, that’s their business.
Now, I am not Fatshark, so my point of view is relative to what I can afford with the amount of money they require.
From my point of view, and considering that they need 10 minutes to make a variation, a variation doesn’t worth a full price.
We talk about a video game…
Irl, I can assure you that I don’t own an eviscerator and I don’t run after groaners in the streets.
this comparison cannot convince me… especially when you see that at the price of a set of comestics is the equivalent of one good DLC in several games.
Cosmetics monetization is a good idea… it works pretty well when it is micro transaction. Here, the word micro has disappeared.
And again, and that’s my personal opinion, what they sell is not worth the money they ask. And this is a customer point of view.
And tbh, this is the one that is valuable. If I am alone, then all is good for Fatshark. If a lot think like me and will, in next months, not buy or buy rarely cosmetics, it affects their business plan. And then, the reasons that dissuade players to buy cosmetics could be more important than their business plan. If they don’t sell, no money and so, no matter of the price, they have a problem.
Yes…
And what I think is that it is not worth the price they ask.
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