you don’t argue in good faith at all, this is a flat out fabrication.
no one said “You just don’t want a scoreboard because you’re bad!! Git gud noob!!”
people said they was to know what builds work differently.
You really are just an Ideological person who does not care about the facts.
The facts are these anti-scoreboard people accused this entire community of being toxic and that lie in it self was incredibly toxic and borderline evil.
What do you even mean by “report”? To Fatshark? How would you know what’s being reported; do you work for Fatshark? You can’t “report” people here on the forum; calling out people is against the rules.
I’ve certainly observed this happen more than once lol, I said I’ve only had something happen once that was so blatantly over the line that it would have been worth reporting. Specifically, a guy who went on and on in voice chat about how many kills he had on scoreboard during the game, then started making fun of one of the other players for having an Asian-sounding name, used some imo nasty racial epithets etc. Really was the racist stuff that was bothersome, I just tune out the random bragging. Probably would have reported it to Fatshark if I had been recording, but I wasn’t, so I didn’t.
Actually I did encounter toxic Scoreboard behavior before. Only once, but if you meet the right person at the right time, you can get some abuse based on lacking dmg numbers and such.
You can actually report people.
You can flag them here by flagging their post.
It’s also possible to send an e-mail to support about ingame behavior or such.
he wants it both ways.
you can’t single out a person here, by name but you can report the problem happened, and you can email support.
1 problem in how many hours?
also no proof that this actually did happen, but lets take his word for it.
so we have one example in thousands of hours of use of scoreboard mod, so again it just proves the point.
there is almost zero toxicity in this game, and even with the use of a scoreboard mod there is still only these insanely rare outliers.
A far cry for saying anyone who wants a scoreboard is a toxic abuser and a serial harasser.
Any fair and reasonable person would admit there is no problem with scoreboards and no problem in this community, they would applaud us for being so exceptional in online games.
You must never have played a PVP FPS, or a MOBA… try playing over watch and you will have man babies screaming at you at the top of their lungs in voice chat in almost every ranked match.
I think you are jumping a little to conclusions here.
Tinybike wasn’t calling everyone who wants scoreboard an abuser. He just said that it tends to happen more with it.
And I was just generally speaking that it is possible to report people and how to do it. Not calling for it to happen.
I generally agree that Darktide has very little toxicity, which is a nice change of pace.
I play Dota 2 every day and the radioactivity is high enough that I’d reckon you could power a powerplant with that playerbase over there. 
tinybike said “there’s usually an ongoing stream of toxicity/mockery related to scores”
the anti scoreboard people, 100% accused us all of being toxic for wanting scoreboards for months on end.
Haven’t met a single person using scoreboards to insult or belittle another player.
I have had several encounters with stoners being useless and their friends protecting them from a votekick, being told I “play this game like a job” in T5 hi-intensity when I’m the last person to go down (this was meant to be an insult), and so-on.
I don’t use mods, have no intention to whatsoever, but I play with a friend that does use mods and has the scoreboard mod.
We usually discuss results in particularly bad missions where nothing went right. We usually come to the exact same conclusion, with and without the scoreboard.
Both sides are being hoodwinked, I tell you what.
A scoreboard that gives information like kills, damage, revives, damage taken, etc. can be useful. It’s the arbitary “SCORE” that the mod comes with by default that is absolutely subjective, arbitary and completely not helpful in any way.
“There is usually an ongoing steam of toxicity / mockery related to scores” is a generalized statement. It doesn’t say everyone who wants scoreboards or even uses scoreboards is toxic. It means there is generally a lot of toxic content streaming in related to scoreboards when a game has them available. Don’t take it all so personal.
We’re all just talking about the concept of scoreboards here, not the individuals.
Yep, exactly. Darktide isn’t especially toxic as far as game communities go. Most folks are pretty cool. (I’m very obviously not saying that everyone who uses the scoreboard is toxic, in fact as I’ve mentioned repeatedly I myself use the scoreboard.) But of course there are some jerks, some of them talk trash about the scoreboard, and if you lurk in the DT discord there’s a fair amount of said trash talking happening. Doesn’t particularly bother me, but trying to say that this never happens is just plain wrong lol
How would you know if teammates have the scoreboard mod installed and how it might have altered their behavior?
Scoreboard is a useful tool imo: we need stats to help us improve our gameplay, not for competitive reasons.
Even games like Insurgency Sandstorm has a feats system in coop that awards players for different stats (most headshots, last man standing saving the round, most defensive kills, etc.), just rewarding players and encouraging useful actions - again: not competitive.
In V2 I never encountered anyone toxic but certainly many “elf main” chasing the green circles, splitting from the group and terrible at teamplay.
DT should offer something at least. Not just “nothing” because: “toxic”.
What’s toxic is negating gameplay features without offering alternate and creative ones instead…
There are many examples out there for endgame stats/feats/etc.
I think it shows what is actually happening most of the time when people try to blame scoreboard for toxicity.
The guy is just mad and want to trash talk someone, but he needs something to hook on first.
If it will not be a scoreboard it will be an Asian looking name, or why not both? I had some guy yelling at me for not throwing flashbang at poxwalkers after he died to them, somehow.
Such people don’t care how ridiculous those hooks mite be.
I think the scoreboard by itself is never enabling someones toxicity, it only gives an additional hook for it. Which is not enough of a bad thing to overweight all the positive value scoreboard provides.
I’m not a discord user. And I only really dip in and out of these threads, so I’m not clued up on the whole conversation shebang ongoing from November.
But, just hypothetically, what performance stats would accurately capture the nuances of the game?
I assume you’ll have mob kills and elites on there. Total damage. Good for the vets ofc.
Melee vs ranged kills (ZP).
Accuracy stats: though not for staff psykers I assume
Then … what? I’m interested. And truly not opposed to a final tally of some kind. There was one in VT2 that didn’t ruin the game.
I downloaded (and still use) the scoreboard mod to see what the fuss was. Obviously some bits on there are dubious at best, and I would argue encourage bad play. e.g. number of times I see a med station charge wasted ~ I assume ~ because someone is worried about it reducing their team score. Likewise ZP who refuse to use the flamer even when it’s the obvious choice for thinning the herd.
But. There’s only one real objective to the game: get to the end, with or without scripts. Ideally with all 4 still alive.
So: what would go on this proposed scoreboard?
Genuinely. I bet none of the above make that scoreboard.
So… what’s going on there? It’s mainly kills and damage isn’t it, which I acknowledge is a principal game component, albeit not everything. Otherwise Ogryns and Surge Psykers would have no function one assumes and many builds would just be redundant in terms of ‘performance’.
And if it is just so you can objectively compare meta builds then how does that work when each level plays out differently? Different number of mobs, different elites, slow games, fast games. How do you currently use it to discuss build performance?
And: do you need to see other people’s scores if yours is already indexed as a relative performance? Why do their scores matter? People who’ve had a “bad game” - objectively - can assess in their own privacy. You can see how well you’ve done in yours, or share I guess if it’s insightful.
It’d be good to see a knock-up dummy of how it’d look according to the shared view of this “community” that is referenced in the OPs thread. That might assuage some doubters. And for me, I wouldn’t object to seeing a better version of the modded one to thumbs-up.
Maybe it’s out there and I’ve just not come across it yet?
My general insight of the issue is that most people don’t care. There is no boogeyman trying to bring down the community as toxic and aggressive, and there are no stalwart defenders of the golden age of scoreboards.
Good players don’t care, either. They don’t need a dysfunctional breakdown of irrelevant numbers. A good player already knows if they’re doing well or not. They can watch their teammates for brief moments and get a glimpse of how well they’re doing.
The only thing a good player cares about is that someone isn’t wandering off or charging into tons of enemies and going down in the middle of them. Being alive is not a burden to your teammates, but being on the ground certainly is.
There’s always a story that those numbers cannot tell, because I’ve had many situations where one teammate does 0 damage to a Beast of Nurgle or Plague Ogryn, but they’re in the backline killing all of the Dreg Shooters and Gunners, the Specialists that are spawning, etc…
It’s just ego stroking.
That being said, I don’t mind personal scoreboards that only show your contribution. Numbers can be obfuscated into a percentage of your contribution in a particular topic (such as total kills) relative to the rest of your team.
This gives the ego strokers what they want, without any way to utilize that information against their teammates. Everybody wins.
If you’ve got a scoreboard mod, it does what you want and you get to see the scores, AND it’s something other people can ignore AND doesn’t impact them then I’m baffled as to why you’d come here and start an inflammatory and confrontational thread?
The irony is not lost on me.
When ever people bring up “things that should appear on a scoreboard” i am really confused, because these things are usually quite convoluted.
What is this supposed to mean exactly?
And why do you think this is a relevant stat?
You can quite easily tell, if a revive is daring or not.
It does not matter, how many enemies were around during the revive.
All that matters is, that the revive went through.
How would you even determine this stat?
Within what range do the enemies have to be?
Would you include enemies that are within that range, but currently attacking someone else?
What if an enemy arrives, leaves or dies during the revive? Will that enemy count or not?
Does it matter if the enemies are stunned or not?
What about different enemy types? Some enemies pose a much bigger danger during a revive.
What about ranged enemies or fire on the floor?
If you tried to display anything like this, nobody would understand what the stat means.
What is this supposed to mean exactly?
Do you have to be the current target of the enemy?
Do you have to apply controll effects to the enemies?
What if the enemies were killed before they could be a danger to anyone in the first place? In that case, anything except dealing damage to them, means absolutely nothing.
What about 4, 5, 6, 7, 8… elites? Do you display those as well?
Wouldn’t it be even better if you held them up and also killed them yourself? Now that would also have to be displayed.
A situation that basically never happens (and never should happen).
When it happens, you do not need a scoreboard to tell you that it did.
Aside from the fact that it would have been better to just kill the sniper before it takes out your teammates, what about killing a sniper that killed one of your teammtes, or 3 of them? You display that on the scoreboard as well?
Why only snipers and not every single enemy type?
What is this supposed to mean exactly?
If you want to see how well people stick together, would this not be covered by the “coherency efficiency” stat that already exists?
No idea what you mean with “team buff ogryn” that heals teammate toughness. I am pretty sure that only zealot and veteran can restore toughness of others.
All classes have something that provides a benefit to their teammates.
This does not need to show up on a scoreboard.
The content of a chest (as well as the current need for ammo/grenades of each player) does not care about who opened the chest.
They do not. And for a good reason.
That was quite an … aggressive… response? I wasn’t looking to pick a fight. I only quoted you as you had a good line re: performance that I wanted to use to frame my thoughts.
I think each of those factors are relevant to performance. Performance, to me, being things that improve the teams chances of success. I try to play for the team, and I think each and every one of those are factors that contribute to the success of the team and its performance.
That’s why I think each and every one is a relevant stat. Killing things is another one. I’m not below average at that aspect either it would seem re: the mod scoreboard. But sometimes a skilful clutch play saves the team, regardless of whether it “basically never happens and never should happen”. Those suggestions might not be easy to measure, but that’s not my fault. They’re still factors that increase success. They’re still relevant.
Do you want a score board or not? Score boards are all about measuring.
To use your own analogy, you can easily tell if you had a good game or not. You don’t need a kill count.
Score boards are for counting, enumerating, putting a value on something. I’d argue picking someone up in an empty room is less valuable than in the middle of a horde. That’s my opinion.
Doesn’t mean you have to pick them. Vet doesn’t have to take the shooter reveal. Ogryn doesn’t have to take the increased Coherency radius. ZP doesn’t have to take team toughness buff. You want to measure performance contribution, then that’s a part of it, isn’t it? I give up some element of personal benefit to aid the team? Then I use it effectively?
Anyway. I’m getting unnecessarily defensive as this isn’t about me. And you’re just looking to argue with someone I suspect.
So I’d just say: a scoreboard might be “convoluted”. I think my post says the same thing. But I’d still like to see other examples of scoreboards. The mod one is okay, but the team score is a bit biased towards staffs, and the offence scores towards vets. You could show us the stats you think are relevant as that’s at least your opinion on paper as it were. Or not. Can’t 
something I’ve never seen.
PS I replied before your 3 additional edits so this may be superfluous now.
I am not aggressive, or looking to pick a fight.
It is a simple question about the reasoning for your opinion.
How many kills you got, is 100% objective and can very easily be determined by a program. You can not possibly count the kills by just playing the game, but you will instantly understand what the stat means, when it is shown.
How daring a revive is, depends on your class, current health/toughness and a lot of other things. Also, it is kinda subjective.
It is pretty easy for a human, to determine if a revive seems dangerous or not.
But it is not easy to determine via a program.
I asked you how this would be determined by a program, giving you a list of issues, but you did not address or resolve any of them.
Aside from that, i would argue that an actually risky revive is usually not a good idea at all, since you might fail and get downed as well. Now you have two bodies in the same location, that is apparently too risky for a revive.
You can drop a zealot grenade to stun surrounding enemies, or use the ogryn ult to knock them down. Now the revive is completely risk free, although there might be a lot of enemies around.
Or you could kill the enemies first and then revive the downed guy.
In the end, it is completely irrelevant how risky a revive was.
All that matters, is that the revive went through.
Successful revives can easily be tracked (and are shown on the scoreboard).
No. I am just asking you a few questions, hoping to find out how you think these things could be implemented in a way, that anyone understands what they mean.
Or how they should be determined in the first place.
Since I installed the mod, I’ve played a lot of games, over many many hours.
I’ve only ever encountered one instance of a player who appealed to some number from the scoreboard as an excuse to be an ammo goblin (specifically damage dealt) and when told to stop being one responded by accusing me of being a scrublord. It’s rare in my experience, for someone to act like a jackass because of it.
I’m not sure I can. Their meaning and value is obvious I would hope, but how you measure them is the point I was trying to make and exactly what you’ve reiterated so it would appear, despite odds, that we’re in alignment.
So; those pushing for a scoreboard, and for that scoreboard to be shown to everyone to show “bad players they’re at the wrong level” (not your words, but in these threads)…
What goes on it?
That’s my post. That’s the entirety of my post. Those pushing for an enforced scoreboard, what goes on there?
If you’re looking for bragging rights/build tips/just to get rid of people you’re “carrying” - what goes on there?
Kills are easy to measure. Let’s agree that. They go on there.
But all those soft metrics that are hard to quantify, qualify, measure or even agree an exact definition of: we just leave those off yeah? Too hard to measure, so we’ll ignore those…?
So a player turns up, gets an indexed kill score of 60 and thinks jeez, I’m rubbish. While (s)he’s playing a slab ogryn in a team of elite vets. Maybe they were. Maybe they weren’t. Maybe they couldn’t keep up with the class speed of those vets. Maybe the Ogryn class should be consigned to not being T5++ worthy? I dunno.
VT2 - Ironbreakers never got many green circles. Still want one in my team. Same for Ogryns; still want one in my team & don’t want them to get discouraged by being force fed low kill numbers.
So I guess my challenge is; what does this scoreboard look like. Who has to see it. What’s important vs. what’s measured ? What result are you hoping for (collectively) to come out of it?
What goes on there?