Thanks for adding to this conversion. Also I have both more posts and have received more likes then you so I have no idea what you are on about.
Although you did not provide any meaningful logic or evidence that the scoreboard mod existing promotes, or has created any meaningful level of toxicity, especially considering you didnât seem to even touch on the question of incentive structures around the issue, your post does have what I find to be some substantive and beneficial ideas for the game. For example, your idea to make grouping the default after a mission, as well as being able to send a friend request from the end-of-mission screen.
However, not only do I not accept the narrative that creating a âCommendation systemâ in Darktide would resolve any toxicity, I strongly suspect that it would heavily promote toxicity simply in the other direction. Functionally, what you are talking about when you say âCommendation systemâ is a social credit system, you even directly admit as much, saying âHow good you are with teamplay and making people like you is directly tied to your overall social statusâ.
Ultimately, all you are proposing with this social credit system is a modality to inject several layers of casual toxicity into the game, to reinforce the âelitistâ toxicity, which will only exacerbate the situation. This is a completely and totally predictable outcome and will only create an exponentially more toxic community, because it will frankly obviously hyper-incentivize an âus versus themâ power dynamic, which is one of, if not the most consistently used and reliable mechanisms throughout all of human history, in all realms of the human endeavor, at producing division amongst peoples.
Your argument about overwatch (and I would hazard a guess this is also the case with foxhole, though I have never played that game) is quite flawed because those games are incomeasureable with Darktide because in Darktide there are quite intentionally *no roles,* which is one of the things that makes Darktide such a unique game, because this lack of roles means that whenever you fail it is because *you failed,* which means that the winning condition is always in your control, as a player, and that fact is the fundamental root of what makes people keep playing darktide.
Iâm not going to address the implementation, rewards, and things that could be tracked since I see no evidence or logic whatsoever that this social credit score idea is anything more than a way to efficiently waste precious development time.
Regarding what you want to replace the scoreboard mod with, neither you nor anyone else has presented sound logic or evidence that the existence of the scoreboard mod or any similar mods actually produces any toxicity. Additionally, you have randomly decided to make a strawman of the reasons and motives that people use these sorts of mods. Sure, some people might just want to see their big damage numbers, but that is just one motive for wanting that mod. I personally donât use those mods for that, I couldnât care less about what the number specifically is; it could be 8 or 8,000,000,000. That isnât the point; the point is how those numbers impact the gameplay. Making the changes that you are promoting would remove the ability of the vast majority of players to analyze how those numbers impact their gameplay. If you donât like seeing other players get bigger numbers than you, all you need to do is uninstall the mod, or donât install it in the first place. Additionally, if someone is harassing you about âyour numbersâ, they objectively are a shitter that is bad at the game. Competent players donât mind running with newer, lower-skilled players for the additional difficulty. However, if you are finding that the vast majority of the people who look like they know what they are doing are telling you that they think there are things you could be doing better, it makes immensely more sense to analyze the veracity of what they are telling you than simply assuming they are all âtoxicâ.
Although I do agree that it would be nice if the damage reporting mods did have the ability to report at least some of the granularity you are suggesting, I would hazard a guess that it is a limitation of the API, and there is probably a good reason for that, but if there is no such reason then it would be a phenomenal idea to add that information to the API for the modders to handle reporting to the players, as opposed to wasting precious dev work on the additional work beyond adding it to the API.
Regarding your question of âWhy Should We Have Any Type of Score Tracking?â, again, neither you nor anyone else has provided any evidence or sound logic that there is a âharmful score trackingâ at all, and you nor anyone else has provided any evidence or sound logic that there is any causative connection between access to this information and players becoming more toxic to each other. Which means that your question of âharmfulâ vs âless harmfulâ score tracking is a false dichotomy logical fallacy, laid on top of a red herring, whose only foundation is a false cause logical fallacy. In short, your argument, although lengthy, has no logical foundation or intellectual legitimacy beyond a few small ancillary ideas outside your main arguments.
I hate the premise of your post.
Your title is a conclusion. Your evidence is anecdotal, generalizing and speculative.
You donât have data, you have click bait hot take opinions rendered as walls of text.
The score board is data. Data inherently requires context to be given meaning. Thatâs a given. I think at the end of the day, your gripe is with that context, not the data itself. Green circles give that data context rather than simply giving people the numbers and letting them decide for themselves.
There are unsung heroes who donât arenât given the spotlight. Ogryn providing knockdowns and stagger, psykers shielding the group from gunfire or trapperâs nets, zealots turning the tide with a chorus. It sucks, but there arenât great ways to represent their work because it would be an overflow of data. I get why that makes your sad you want to hear their songs, but veteran players playing havoc and being successful at it understand that context and understand that people have roles and are happy to have great players to fulfill those roles.
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the worst players are against scoreboard. if someone is performing like s..t and not doing their job they should know
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(Please just press enter not shift+enter next time, your paragraphs have no spacing)
My argument is that: âIf you think the scoreboard in VT2 is bad then the compromise of a scoreboard being a mod here is worse in the long runâ. I do think the devs have probably seen less reports of âgreen circle chasingâ at launch hence why they think its a decent compromise. But my main point is that this is a temporary thing as the playerbase for Darktide is larger and less experienced currently.
I have no evidence for this, its just some basic logic that I think is sound.
This is partially true yes. There are some bad behavior linked with the commendation system in Foxhole. However I think it does overall improve the community of the game. Yes it makes new players stand out more but firstly that is already done in game with the various cosmetic status symbols we already have. And secondly thatâs not necessarily a bad thing. Since the incentive structure incentivizes pro social behavior, the people with the best pro social behaviour will also be the people with the highest social standing.
This works very well in foxhole where usually you see anti social bad people pushed out of the community and pro social people pushed to the top. I have never had the privilege of being a part of a better community then that. If you join the charlie shard on foxhole right now, go to any front line and ask âwhat do I doâ you will have 10 experienced players IMMEDIATLY offer to help you.
Yes its not exactly 1:1 with this game, and its possible the system could be harmful. But I think it genuinely is a good idea that encourages people to be pro social. But there are always bad apples.
I donât get this because dark tide has roles. Almost every class has a support build, and all classes have a pretty clear archetype and role they fill in a team. This is less of a issue at lower difficulties but you cant go into havoc with that sort of mindset and have a good time lol.
Regarding this and the rest of your post. Again, not my arguments, not my data, not even remotely close to my actual personal opinion. Im just taking the devs at their word and arguing against it. I have the scoreboard mod installed, use it 100% of the time, and have literally always been top score in every single match I have played in the last 3 weeks, usually close to double the next highest score as I tend to play auric maelstrom and most players there arent the best. I am well aware of the benifits of score tracking when it comes to refining playstyle/builds, and that is why I want a type of score tracking in the game!
Yeah cant really argue against the title it is click bait lol. BUT! I donât think you really get the premise of my post.
Yup. Thats why I want a score tracking system in the game like that. That is what I describe in the âGiving People the Stats they Want in the Least Harmful Way Possible While Still Being Better then the Modâ section!
Im just also regarding the devâs concerns of âgreen circle chasingâ and seeing scoreboard in the game.
My only real argument is directed at the opinion the devs hold and it is that: âIf you think the scoreboard in VT2 is bad then the compromise of a scoreboard being a mod here is worse in the long runâ
Those are EXACTLY the roles and things to track that I mention would be perfect for a commendation system! It wouldnt be a overflow of data as it would just show one of those stats from each person and people can be like âwow that ogryn staggered so many people! Ill commend them!â. This is more directed at new players not veterans, basically its meant to encourage those types of playstyles because I think teamplay is great.
what is it with that hive mind mentality? 
maybe one plays video games to get away from people, NOT have to converse with them and god forbid NOT have another âsocial mediaâ blob thing that tries to swallow everything?
you donât need to be âproâ or even âsocialâ at all, shut up, do your part and you fulfilled your role as a bot replacement.
it aint rocket science and we donât have to bond over one match, in fact chances are we never meet again anyways.
and why should we?
itâs because randoms are expendable that every match feels fresh, with new interesting or dumb 
happening, instead of the ever repeating vinyl record that becomes stale after a couple of premade matches where everyone does the same thing over and over again.
dont play when drunk, tired or whatever distraction is ringing the doorbell right now.
THAT is what I expect of an efficient participant in a match, not smalltalk about the weather or carebear attitude teach newcomers the map layout in auric maelstrom and above, when they should have learned that stuff the moment they entered malice.
log in, play proper, log out, auf Wiedersehen.
to a degree you can and so far havoc 40s were possible without uttering a single word to randoms.
but I agree (and the reason why I rarely play it) the mode forces you to play overly defensive, beneath your own personal capabilities, and turtle through a slog of a match rather than having the adrenaline rush of emptying the map by yourself.
apart from that, no one in auric maelstrom âneedsâ nobody else apart from an unlucky net or dog and I prefer the game this way by far.
itâs pretty irritating to see an ogryn shield planting or psyker smyking/dome popping when iâm already 2 rooms ahead with no enemies left in my wake.
same goes for yellow wololoâŚ. thanks, Iâm good at maintaining my own toughness.
darktide is a coop game, that doesnât make it a âteam gameâ, though havoc tries hard to force it upon the players but fails equally hard in providing any independent means to the single player except some shoehorned meta thatâs âmandatoryâ
I bet zealot next to me could play âway betterâ if he wasnât there to give us a yellow shower and honestly I either play ogryn âmy wayâ or not at all, but shield and taunt waterboy? nope, my times too precious for this kind of âBĂźcklingâ role.
there should be a mode were the 4 rejects get dropped at 4 different places of new designed maps and the end ârewardsâ scale based on how many made it to the finish line, that be some fresh mode
The game is designed to be co-op team based. You can want to play it in another way but thatâs clearly not the intention. Iâm offering suggestions to the devs to encourage the behavior they want to encourage.
If you want a game that is intended for mostly solo play/individual play then that would be something like payday. All of the classes here are designed to work as a team. That is the designed intention of this game, you can disagree with it but then your disagreeing with this game and what the team wants it to be. Better go to a different game at that point.
You can play solo with bots if you want, or continue playing completely anti social thatâs entierly up to you. Im just saying how the game could be made better for people who want to work as a team, as is the intention behind the game.
Like Iâm sorry but the playstyle and stuff you enjoy is ACTIVLEY contradictory to the devâs intentions.
so they buff us to space marine level in terms of kill capacities but expect us the let something leftover to shoot for the other 3 out of the goodness of our hearts because âthey are thereâ?
again playing coop doesnât imply an interacting team that voluntarily has someone step back so another can fulfill âhis roleâ when one can do the job himself just fine.
team deathmatch, capture the flag, âhero shootersâ(
) are âteam gamesâ cause rarely you see someone solo a match âon demandâ
coop means someone âcouldâ help but he isnât âmandatoryâ to clear the content if someone goes above and beyond (see havoc 40 solo runs by prodigies, or good clutches and carries with 3x âFallobstâ)
team also implies âequalâ members as in skill/performance etc.
since you never know what you get in random matches, you simply CANâT rely on someone else to do the job, hence every character in darktide is equipped (more or less) to do said âjobâ himself.
gladly, whereâs the mode that lets me kit and pick my characters/talents/loadouts as bots and give me âprogressâ at the same time?
mod, sure but thatâs not the same as i.e space marine 2 has me enjoying ever since they gave us exactly (well bots arenât pickable but still) that
Iâd argue besides farming for âbrownie and feel good pointsâ any dude that goes âf-it, I do it myselfâ(and pulls off the clutch/carry successfully) is doing the bench warmers a bigger âserviceâ than holding back and getting dragged down by their bad decisions only to âstick with the teamâ
besides as mentioned above, sometimes skill discrepancies are that wide of a gap, you couldnât possibly make them understand the importance of âmomentum over safetyâ for example.
training-camp, good friends, multiple months, 4-6 hours a day and thereâs progress.
20 minutes match with dudes down for 5 or 6 of em multiple times?
no
at this point apart from âget in the psykanium and your build straight, than learn the map for christâs sakeâ
plus as with everything, being good at something doesnât make you a good teacher in this topic at the same time.
donât be, its a fun discussion and everyoneâs entitled to his own opinion 
Im literally just telling you how the devâs desinged the game. If you think they did a bad job or you disagree with their intention thats up to you. But it was designed as a teamplay focused game from day 1.
Im just offering some suggestions that could help with that.
I have to doubt the âintentionâ is to wait for 3 complete strangers and simultaneously given the power of a chaos god.
if I watch my old replays, there were less spawns and people less experienced, true.
but ever since beta, one zoom zealot that figured out what was possible gameplay wise, left the others in the dust even back then.
current power level is just giving every character this ability and then some.
with havoc and balance?
absolutely horrible job in my opinion.
with design, aestethics, combat flow and âgameplayâ?
these are the reasons I play the game daily, thereâs no other game like it in the 40k setting.
so thatâs the love-hate relation right there.
dartkide as a single player doom eternal-esque 40k skill shooter would be chefs kiss in my opinion.
necromunda hired gun was âthereâ and ok for the time but canât even come close to the gritty feeling of darktideâs combat.
Well there a few other good 40k shooters, and also E.Y.E. But fair enough. Just seems like this game wasnât exactly made for what you want.
how so?
except havoc the game has me covered for 3 years+ by now so I âgot what I wantedâ to a pretty large degree
Well mostly due to poor balancing decisions really. But your also playing at a level well below what you could so that is probably most of it. You would need to rely a decent bit more on teamplay if you focused on havoc more.
Regardless Iâm just saying that FS has stated multiple times that they wanted to encourage teamplay first. That was one of their major goals, and that is literally why they removed the scoreboard because they think the scoreboard encourages players to focus on independent performance too much.
In CTF you have some people take the role of defenders and some are trying to capture. When the whole team is rushing to capture the flag itâs a mess and doesnât work well cause if everyone was wiped there is noone to drag a respawn timer/map traverse time for others.
If coop tuned around everyone can output the same damage potential then there should be properly designed objectives that are forcing your team to split or to do things simultaneously, etc. DT has none. Almost all objectives can be rushed trough.
Hacks? Fast to perform, and on top of that people are using mods to hack the hack.
Either way there will be no way to provide any challenge. Thatâs the part of DT balance problems, when you have 4 allrounders are perfectly capable to deal with anything by their own the game canât punish players and create a challenging combat scenarious but with clown cars.
And on top of that DT skillset design is conrtoversial to that idea. You have defensive tools - like dome, or crowd control - taunt. But then you also can be efficient enough in doing other stuff. It doesnât make sense.
If you want everyone to be equal you canât have drasticaly different class fantasies. In V2 Bardin slayer, Saltz priest and GK donât have ranged weapon, thatâs the tradeoff for some of the strongest (and broken OP tools). You can deal with disablers still, but it makes your life easier when a competent teammate covers you. In DT there is no âdo your workâ. All ammo will be grabbed by the one whoâs most greedy or has the best DPS gun cause of the balance, not cause it strategically benefits the team and win potential.
On top of that V2 keeps party by default, means you find competent friends naturaly and donât suffer through the party finder abysmal thing. Iâve found 3 irl firends via V2 (and iâm quite an autistic person). Iâve found 0 in DT, despite the same time ammount invested. Because the game donât provide that expirience effortless. You need to press E to stay in the team, noone cares to press a button, including myself.
Shouldnât be mathematically possible. If your game is supposed to be a 4 player coop then you should balance top difficulties accordingly.
That doesnât make sense as a football match 1vs1 on a full scale football field. Communication is a skill aswell, be it a hockey team or a trench assault squad you need a cooperation language. Solely âjust silently do you workâ doesnât work in high stress environment, wich DT high difficulty is supposed to be if we want any challenge.
so far I found the tools ingame absolutely sufficient to clear havoc 40 with randoms.
reason I dont accept invites is most people expect to âchatâ which I clearly prefer not to apart from very close real life friends.
my success in a game shouldnât depend on my âtalking skillsâ but what I perform ingame.
screeching teen voices, munching and music in the background, no âthick skinâ for hard callouts when hits the fanâŚ.. nope, no voice chat from me.
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Well those people most of the time are being filtered by the difficulty (or atleast should be but oh well).
And high difficulties arenât allowed a lot of talks aside from call outs, plus most of the time it takes 1 person who are willingly coordinate and managing stuff. Most of the time itâs some semi support player whoâs already paying attention to everyoneâs toughness/ammo. So itâs like in line with their mentality.
DD/roamers playstyle leaning people can stay more silent indeed and abuse ping system.
Itâs like that in every game, team captain isnât necessarily it the best player, heâs just doing whaât other people donât want/donât like to and it multiplies team efficiency.
Like if people on average donât do callouts, means the game donât have big ALERT moments can cause team wipe. Or there is no proper resource economy you feel being blessed by The Big E for finding red stimm cause means you gonna make it a bit further on H40 and so youâre shouting REEEED STIIIIM BOOOOOYZ. No reason to care - noone cares.
People are running like headless chickens, ignoring tags and donât tag because the game teached them you can make it through like that.
yep, oh well indeed 
and since not even one beneficial sound formed by the larynx, lips and vocal cords of âthoseâ has ever made it through, I rather skip the 1%chance the dude hogging the mic has anything of value to add.
thatâs randoms mind you.
aint pretty keen on the whole premade thing cause once you got your routine whatâs the point?
that and with my best buddy I donât need to mince words and we both can rant and shout at our leisure.
some ânew guyâ would have to bring some good thick skin and even thats rare today, so why bother?
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I mean it can be fixed. Leveling new charatcers is a boring slog, cause low difficulties donât provide any fun. Maps are 70% empty there. Idk whatâs going in FS fish brain, they should just make lower difficulties full of enemies but with low hp, low damage, and 10 medcrates.
I think there is no crushers on low difficulties even.
And then i think starting from Heresy the game starts spawning more enemies while they have higher stats.
I think most PvE games i played i beat the hardest difficulties/achievements with randoms.
But V2 Cata FoW was like realy hard (maybe itâs easier with new careers mostly cause priest probably) and i was having like 1500 hours and all my firends near the same ammount, some more. We spent like 3 evenings trying to solve class compositions, spots. That was a moment of âiâm kinda good at this gameâŚi think, and itâs still not enoughâ, peak gaming expirience.
All V2/DT tough runs are blurred cause of pure ammount of them. But that Cata FoW i remember as it was yesterday.
The problem with randoms in many games they arenât stubborn enough. If there is great challenge they will try 3 times and leave/disband.
Itâs just a symptome of DT doesnât have a certain challenge angle. Scum srtuggles to clear armor? No need to make a callout, bazooka deletes a pack now. Also now we need to spawn even more armor packs.
When every class/weapon imperfection are treated like that everything ends up being homogenized-samy and spawns become absurd like not in the terms of challenge but also vibes and immersion.
Speaking of imperfection, this is like an overall thing i see in DT broader community, people absolutely canât tolerate imperfect solid A-B tier stuff. Weapons are either good (broken OP) or a complete useless unplayble trash in their view.
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I hear you on scoreboard, but I have like 1000 hours and Iâve only ever heard people say positive things based on what a particular player does. I donât use any mods, but I have had people say âwow youâre level whateverâ, or âyou did this much damage to the boss, gjâ. Basically everyone can tell without the scoreboard that flame psyker did the most damage haha. So, itâs no shock when the scoreboard says as much.
The other part of what you said⌠the commendation system. That would be dope af. I love the idea of being able to drop some merit badges on certain players. Something simple like âteam playerâ, âhas your backâ, âteam leaderâ or something along those lines. Iâm sure someone else would have better names. Iâd probably suggest adding multiple commendation options so you can vote positively on everyone in your squad in some way if you want. That, and the option to decline to vote on someone at all. The guy who rushes in and dies and spams in chat itâs all our fault⌠I donât want to have to give him a commendation of any kind lol. I also donât want to be able to say anything negative.
The post mission screen not being so short could be handy because sometimes I am just chatting with the pubs and I get kicked mid chat.
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