out of curiosity(yes another bottle of bleach please)
wouldn’t that be slaneesh’s domain?
attenborough lore somehow “omitted” that 
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Ah yeah, okay thats my bad. I remember us chatting a lot but forgot the specifics. The keystones discussion was definitely something we both agreed on.
Anyway, I should probably try and formulate my thoughts a little better on the skill tree discussion for another time, I’m far more excited about the Itemization stuff on its way right now to be doing too much complaining. 
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To everyone who says the talent trees are the classes.
The devs might have left it open to interpretation on WHEN they were delivering classes, but I distinctly remember a player asking if the release classes were all the classes we will get and they said no, there will be more.
This is the problem. It made them look awful. They didn’t have to say anything more than there was something else planned.
remember when fatshark promised solo play/bots within 6 months? pepperidge farm reminders
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We should be careful with the potentially toxic notion of having people set high expectations for themselves.
Setting realistic goals is a good thing. Setting the bar low has been psychologically proven to inspire people to keep passing that bar.
The metaphor breaks when the culmination of each bar you jumped over eventually totals out to be the height of the high bar.
Set a series of small goals, and as you complete them, you’ll be at that high bar just through the small goals.
Even workout trainers will tell you that.
Of course, you could argue that they have experience from VT2 and that they should’ve borrowed from that.
In this metaphor they’re working a different set of muscles. Even though it’s still exercise.
When reading a thread, should one read the entire thread and respond to everything? Or just the recent posts? How far back should you go to be relevant within the current context of the conversation? I never knew this rule.
I’d believe it, what with that blog post that came out the day after the closed beta trying its hardest to say that DT classes are totally different to VT2 careers… when everything could see it wasn’t in the beta. And on release.
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Loot aquisition and usage.
This isn’t Doom, you don’t start with Pistol and can get ALL weapon types at the same time per playthrough. Hence how you gear up your character and tune your character to interact with said weapons is an important part of GAMEPLAY.
The biggest spike of players returning was with class overhaul. And while that’s not what I am talking about in my previous post, I’ll answer the question. Yes, playing different classes does have a significant impact on player retention. Riot proves it with LoL barely changing map from AoS days and DE with Warframe being endless amount of frame releases.
While I did enjoy Doom this year, it is one pump chump. I wouldn’t call it endless. Nor would it be “endless” without modders. I personally wouldn’t put in even 10% of time into Doom I have put into Darktide.
and how many of them stuck around ?
here i am still playing my ogryn everytime i fire up darktide and having a ball.
and still learn new things on occasion.
the people in question joined back briefly for the next hot sht, got bored eventually again and left.
nothing would have satisfied their craving for long, for if i read “reached max level what to do next?” i know what clientel i got in front of me.
yet at the same time they wonder why they get stomped in auric maelstrom.
so, right now i gamble my mats until i get a 25% flak/maniac t4 slaughterer/headtaker karsolas and then ? (something i have little influence on apart from the amount i spend)
it´s my favorite melee right now, if i had to take a guess i´d use it the next year at least.
this “chore” is gameplay in a positive and motivating sense how exactly ?
if given the choice i´d rather have freely picked my loadout and talents from day one and get going.
the main game started for me the moment i got my kickback and melee with the curios maxed and didn´t have to bother about “numbers” ever since, at least for a year or so by now.
everything after that is honing my skills to be worthy of auric maelstrom, clutching, carrying, getting everything out of my ogryn.
thats the gameplay loop that makes and breaks darktide for me.
not hadron, brunts or melk rng.
to stop working on the tools to get the job done, but work on myself to be provicient to get the job done in the first place.
in a sense it is,
you start with an available loadout and unlock other weaponry until lvl 30, then purchaseable from brunts, ableit in a lesser variant so to speak.
you can´t carry all at the same time, but often times i use a certain weapon in my doom runs almost exclusively for breezing through anyways, so the carried loadout isnt a factor here.
true.
and what mods (ports excluded for sheer necessity) are the bread and butter ? WADS
“hell revealed” and tons of others that improved on what made doom enjoyable in the first place.
32 map megawads that offer new environments and countless hours of playtime.
“usually” same weapons and enemies, but new architecture/artstyle and compositions/density of mobs.
given the time i´ve sunk in doom back 30 years ago alone it´d be hard to catch up reaching the same playtime in darktide (back then at least 5-6hours a day, all week) after quake and stuff came on it gotten less, but never to the point of zero.
That’s the question you should ask Fatshark, not me.
And the same question can be asked about map addition retention. I didn’t care for new map, so didn’t even come back.
People who stay enjoy the game regardless of changes. So why not see if you can attract more?
It isn’t “chore” for me. I’ve spent hours enjoyably setting up loadouts on characters to use in variety of ways.
But it isn’t. You can pretend and play like it is, but it only means that’s all you’re getting from it.
Doom is action chess game variation. Darktide is action Magic the Gathering variation.
While you can play MtG like chess, you can’t really play chess like MtG.
I suggest finding work in Fatshark and push that idea through.
And my game started when I first pressed “play”.
And none of it matters for comparison, because most, if not all has not been made by iD. If you want it to be comparable, push for map creation tools to be given to the playerbase.
As it stands. Doom with all expansions is only comparable in play time when you aren’t bored of repetition to the point where it becomes “chores”.
nothing wrong with that, only those seeking new stuff constantly don´t stick around to make a larger playerbase in the long run and move to greener pastures soon again.
and i prefer spending those hours walloping heretics.
let´s agree to disagree, as long as you find your fun in the game that´s the important part.
while i´d like that idea for the vacation-time alone i doubt providing ideas would be enough to justify any employment.
got no talent designing or programming whatsoever.
bashing heretics to a pulp, that i´m pretty good at 
@Cerebrophage
Man, uhhh… just a suggestion, but physically labelling yourself a “Public Enemy”, and then arriving in every thread with the mindset of some Guru-Pariah, is a very quick way to make yourself hated.
Respond to the comments that stimulate your desire to discuss, but try not to ignore the course the OP set. Or whatever. IDK.
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In the end my main point is, with only evaluating combat loop as core gameplay, you send mixed signals to FS who could then consider you being fine with loot and leveling crap.
I’m sorry I dragged you into value discussion while it wasn’t my main goal.
I’m just irked by people saying core gameplay is good while crapping on part of it. Core gameplay is ok because it’s carried hard by combat loop. And any misstep on that would destroy any goodwill they have remaining for the game.
I don’t want FS to go and say “but they tell us core gameplay is great so we are doing it right!” When loot system is crap, mission selection is meh, no private party capability when you’re alone, reward system is pushing people for higher difficulty than they want to enjoy.
all good,
and phrased that way it´s something i even agree with 
I mean that bar was high and little doggy got some serious air.
Dec 2020 was the announcement…
Then May 2022
2 months later…
Then… Jan 2023
“Over the next few months”… there is that mystery bar again…
Imagine if the launch was pushed back until September 2023?
(AKA Class overhaul announcement)
Would the game have been better off with a year in the tank? Do I tip my drink and say, they will learn from this! Or have we been burned by Darktide enough?
Almost every announcement from FS is tainted by Chaos.
We’re approaching 2 years from the Open Letter promise of a complete crafting system and are just now receiving the first Q&A of an itemization rework.
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I mean, isn’t that already the case for a lot of people here? As for the part about being a guru-pariah I never claimed to be such a thing. What do you mean by “Guru?” How do I express this behavior? I’m also not in every thread, which is obvious. Just the ones that stimulate my desire to discuss. (To borrow your verbiage.)
To me this sounds like a difference in definitions. They didn’t say what that’d look like, or did they explicitly state it? I’m not sure.
Which definitions and differences are you pointing to? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make or what you mean. Please explain your thought process.
For me, The Open Letter above, specifically the second paragraph, sets the bar pretty firmly IMO. Complete crafting system, progression loop and stability/performance optimization. A “Broad strokes” goal and essentially saying (to me) FS will finish completing the game after release, which harkens back to everything discussed from here to there on the forums since launch and sets the bar by the CEO pretty high.
Its been almost 2 years since that statement, which defines the process will take a “few months”. Few is typically defined as “a small number of” like 3 or 4, not 20 or 24…but I guess you’re right, it seems like this is all a difference in definitions.
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Well, I’m wondering if “Weapon Crafting” could mean for you, the ability to modify the magazine, stock, barrel, scope, muzzle, trigger, and other attachments. I am also wondering what Fat Shark meant by “Weapon Crafting.” did they mean the literal ability to craft one? And what does it mean to “craft” in the context of Darktide? Spending resources to –
- Obtain a weapon
- Enhance a weapon
- Modify the weapon
This could loosely be called crafting. I wonder if there might’ve been something lost in translation or communication perhaps.
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I’m still convinced that FS misunderstands what Random Mission Generation means. You could be onto something…
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