Remember when Fatshark promised a new class every quarter?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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I love this low effort post because it really highlights how awful both sides of the argument are.

  1. The post itself is just a LMAO with absolutely no commentary.
  2. The defending posts are just as bad, “well they didn’t solemnly swear so it’s ok”

Here’s the deal, FS has a communication problem, they created a lot of expectations with their pre-release. It’s their fault for doing that, nobody forced them to. But I suspect that if they marketed the game for what it was, they would have lost a lot of the hype.

They lied continuously leading up to the release and post-release. When I paid to be a beta-tester of the game, I was frankly disappointed that there were NO improvements from the build I played in August vs the pre-release paid beta I was playing. But again, FatShark said “we have surprises for you in a week when we release the game”… survey says… that was a LIE!

We got menus with “Coming Soon” lol, how pathetic does it get.

Anyways, there’s a reason that this game is still getting Mixed reviews on Steam. You can blame people like OP, but the reality is that people aren’t terminally online, they make their own opinion and Darktide deserves a mixed rating.

Holding a company to a certain standard is not a bad thing. Holding FatShark to their own words is a good thing as well.

I understand this is a low effort s**tpost by OP and that I’ve put way more effort in it than I should. I’d like to end on a more positive note. The communication lately from @FatsharkStrawHat has been stellar. I understand that some of the old statements that FS made will fall by the wayside, I’m not happy about it. I would have loved more classes, more options, more weapon customizations, but as a die-hard of this community, I’m really happy when we get to interact with some of the great people that make this game and understand their thought process for releasing new content.

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The Skitarii / admech request archive - Warhammer 40,000: Darktide / General Discussion - Fatshark Forums (fatsharkgames.com)

that would suffice.

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Admech wouldn’t be a class as mentioned by the publication that OP linked, but an Archetype, which isn’t promised atm

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Here you go FS, see the inspirational poster below you can hang on your wall during meetings.

image

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Hrm, hold up, rewind just a sec, in this instance there was an immediately preceding bit, that’s been left out here, that changes that context.

“It is safe to say we aim to introduce a new class every quarter…”

That’s a wee bit stronger.

More to the point, business 101, if you tell customers you “aim” to do something with a product, that’s creating an expectation. Failing to meet expectations, regardless of how flimsy, reflects poorly on businesses.

One can talk about how the game design paradigm changed down the road or other such things, and there are valid arguments there regarding the class system as you enumerated, but trying to welch out of a deliverable by saying “well we didn’t pinky-swear to do it so it doesn’t count and you’re not allowed to hold it against us!” doesn’t tend to work well.

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Hence why it’s in the Book of Grudges. Better communication could address this and other similar ‘gaffes’ from this game’s development.

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For one, plans change. For two, at release we had iirc 5 tiers where you’d pick 1/3 talents (or ‘feats’) per each. Many of those sucked, choice & variation was minimal, and most everyone’s character was about the same. It was those ‘classes’ that post of yours was talking about: sad, small, irrelevant, void of creativity and choice.

The class overhaul came ~10 months after the game’s release, and added 8 classes to a total of 3 per each archetype. Far more than the 3 we’d have had with the quarterly release. More than that, every single one of those classes now had orders of magnitude more talents than before. And finally, we could now pick any talents we liked even from other class trees, to create thousands of variations of perfectly customized builds to suit our needs.

The current system is pretty much objectively far, far better. But I’ve already wasted enough time dancing around the issue here. Your demeanor in this topic and that “muh class overhaul” (with leetspeak no less) says everything. You’re toxic & a troll, and a few other things I won’t demean myself or others by saying out loud. Have a nice block and good bye.

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In some of the press interviews leading up to patch 13 it was implied they had been working on the current system prior to the games release. So if we take them at their word then this original post was 100% bull**** meant to forestall complaints about the game launching with only 4 classes.

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Ah yes, Ogryn Heavy Hitter and Lucky Bullet keystones are so much more interesting and gameplay changing than comparing Ironbreaker and Slayer. How could we have missed the amazing variety and careful balance in the trees.

I swear people are being paid for some of the comments posted here.

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The career ability I what mostly defines the “class” IMHO, not the keystone. Career abilities are more defining to play style like they were in VT2.

That said, VT2 did have more distinct class feelings, but that was also a product of talent trees being more narrow and limited. And even then, the HP regen talent rows and stagger talent rows were similar across ALL characters and careers. Leaving only four rows of three talents unique to a career.

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I would prefer a new archetype

no, at least for me.
I really prefer talents tree. So many more possibilities than just classes.

Career fits perfectly for Warhammer fantasy. See the rule book, the system was around careers.
But in a WH40k game, I don’t think you can keep such system, especially considering what is the imperium.
Also, one point I have hated in VT2 is the fact you have to be one defined character. This was a strong break to my enjoyment. I hated the screen that was saying «pick an other character».

You can… off course you won’t compete, most of the time, with OP builds, cause we can’t have only OP builds (or they would be “balanced”).
But you can play as medic, commando, behind the lines, sniper or even as a coward (worst gameplay).

In my mind the problem was created by players that wanted keystones and a simplified talents tree. As a result, I tend to choose same talents in the bottom tree. Must say I don’t use keystones. This allow me to get massive damage boosts.

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I would put them at equal footing.

New branches would offer new gameplay, and if it’s 1 (or 2 to keep symmetry) on each would bring more gameplay variation than a new arch

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I’m really confused by what you’re saying here.

Ralendil, you do recognize me, right? we been talking veteran on here for over a year now, I hope you didn’t just lose your memory. We’ve been in all the Vet discussions, yous and me, over the life of this game.

Just really got thrown off by the tone of your replies to me.

Wait, Ralendil you despised the new Veteran skill tree when it came out. Absolute freaking hated it. Did I wake up in another dimension or something?

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i disagree i think the its safe to say is redundant as it speaks to how sure they are not how likely the plan is. for eg consider if they had said

“Its safe to say we aim to toss out a class now and then”

its not speaking to the level of “promise”

but ok lets roll with it and go with it. you dont actually say why it mattered.

but lets fully quote a few other lines for completion
"So, here we go. While we won’t be able to address everything STILL IN DEVELOPMENT AND WORKING THROUGH THINGS

/facepalm emoji

what business? seriously? ive helped build houses designed by 6 figure architects and not one has every gone according to the plan, I’ve worked in restaurants where the menu doesn’t survive the first night, in which business exactly do you go out with the mk1 plan and stick to it? it sounds like a good argument till you think about it, didn’t some famous guy have a saying about the plan being the first victim?

good business is being able to adapt to changing circumstance and exceed customer expectations inspite of these challenges. id say good business is exactly defined by how out of the plan you can be forced and still get there.

but you missed my point. Its the lack of balance its the sheer effort going into being offended and finding and sticking to purely the negative the very next line is

“we havent fully decided if we will charge for the new classes”

so the situation is , they do an interview talking about where they are where they are aiming ,
things change the plan gets scraped instead of limited class’s we get a far more nuanced talent tree making the old aim obsolete

and we got the improved product for free instead of $40 a year

oddly no ones crying about not having to pay are they? but it was just as big a promise.

in a interview where they satate plainly they are talking about a work in progress and are aiming not promising to deliver things, people are butt hurt we got more for less…

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my first impression was about ammos, not the skill tree.
Must say that, since the keystones and the simplified talent tree, I always pick the +25% ammos, as I always pick the elite damage bonus, and the unyielding damage bonus.
That’s my main complain about the new tree. I tend to stay on same bottom tree, but this is largely explained by the fact I don’t pick any keystone.
In fact the diversity in my builds, for the veteran, is on the top of the talent tree.

Btw, about the first release of the veteran talent tree, I have written this (btw similar thread of this one, but 9 months ago).
I wonder if you don’t confuse with my reactions after they introduced keystones. Keystones have been the worst thing they did for veteran, especially cause they lowered the several talents for this.

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The idea was dropped for the class / talent tree overhaul. The present solution is superior for build variety purposes. Well, at least in theory, as this highly depends on talent tree balance. Just the same as weapon blessings.

It would be nice to see NEW archetypes (vet, ogryn etc.) added to the game with their own talent trees.

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I totally agree. I wonder what it could be, in lore.
I know there’s a skitarii thread. I wonder if they could be part of the inquisition. But, yes, I want new gameplays.
We have a strong melee class, a strong ranged class, psykers and ogryns.
I would something like Squats (few chances it would become a reality as Squats are largely removed from the GW lore, but they could still be part of inquisition) or a combatant talent tree (crusader, desperado, gunslinger would be great… especially with a Stub Automatic)

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Squats still are present in lore, both with the League of Votaan and the Ironhead Squats in Necromunda.

It wouldn’t be lore breaking for FS/GW to just say that the Moebian system is home to quite a few Squat Clans.

But there is the PoV issues, which is why it might not be feasible.

Which honestly could be brought by a Zealot Branch

If we look at possible Archetype we need to focus on 3 points:

  • Introduce new things that aren’t accessible otherwise (Eg: Admech Weaponry for a Tech Adept).
  • Feature enough lore to play around with what it can do (No Fellinids for example).
  • Be able to sell cosmetics.

This is why I think the 6th Archetype (if even a 5th happen) would be Sister of Battle themed. Not featuring Power Armour (though some cosmetics would be identical to them) but being focused on Act of Faith

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To be honest i ask them only one thing… something new.

Sister of battle sounds too powerful in lore. They would have to make them weak if compared to a true sister of battle.
And considering how they have designed the talent trees, they need 3 classes combined in one tree. That’s why I imagined crusader / desperado / gunslinger.
Gunsligger would be critic oriented, crusader melee, desperado would be survivor role. I perfectly know that it won’t be that, but something like that I would like. An archetype that is truly at middle of ranged and melee.

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I mean, I get it… But even the overhauled skill trees don’t feel like unique classes.

In Vermintide 2, each character had 3 (default) subclasses. Each with their own talent tree. If I played Unchained, it felt very different from Pyromancer or Battle Wizard. Not just because of the active ability, but just how the innate passives and talents gave the class a specific feel.

I could make 3 different Zealots using the three different actives, and I’m not feeling much different than the other options. That could just be me though, maybe I was hoping for too much.