Red Item Droprate Overhaul

Are people satisfied with Red/Veteran Item drop-rates in the game, or their loot tables? Personally, I have 400 hours in the game and own literally less than half the Red items in the game; keep in mind i have been playing exclusively Legend since about 70~ hours played. I find that utterly ridiculous for numerous reasons.

For example, I took a 3 month break from the game and came back this week. I saved up x15 Legend Emperor boxes so that I could open them in bulk and compare loot tables. When opening all 15, my findings were:

  • literally 0 red items dropped
  • in 2 of those boxes, the loot was x3 Blue items …

Checking patch notes, from the last few updates, all the prior loot problems were never fixed:

  • Jewelry still has massive loot priority
  • 0 duplicate protection
  • No means to pull red illusions

Frankly, Legend Emperor lootboxes should contain an automatic Red item, let alone have the chance of having x3 blue items.

It’s no surprise to me the majority of people who buy this game drop the game after hitting level 30 in all classes, given the loot is impossibly hard to acquire.

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So you want to fix the problem by trivializing the acquirement of veteran items? I couldn’t disagree with you more. In addition the ‘duplicate’ protection is not required when you have gained five reds to throw into the bin and then thereafter choose whatever red you wish to upgrade - giving you a chance to literally take whatever red you want.

These items are supposed to be rare. They were exceedingly rare once at the start of the game but Fatshark has raised the drop rate to acceptable degrees, and I usually find one or two every other few days, and I do often just play for two hours or so.

According to Steam achievement lists, very few who actually bought the game have even leveled a single character to thirty. The ‘drop rate’ of reds has nothing to do with it.

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Dunno about drop rates. I’ve had multiples of all red items for every character for months. Shed loads of loot boxes sitting there with zero point in opening them. No end game content or challenge for folk like me unfortunately. I hope the DLC brings back a proper difficulty

After nearly a thousand hours of play and a long unlucky streak (lasting for a majority of that) from the beginning (both before and after the drop rate change) I have no problems about the actual drop rates. The only problem I have is the disparity (with reds or otherwise) between jewelry and weapon drops.

This is based on my experience and some (I think sensible) reasoning, so I may well be completely wrong, but it seems that a particular loot item’s slot is one thing that’s decided separately from the others. That’d mean a ranged weapon, melee weapon, necklace, charm, and trinket. This leads to (close to, as there’re cosmetics and Deeds too) two out of five items being weapons, and three out of five pieces of jewelry. But jewelry can be used on anyone, while the weapons need to be gained separately for every character, so weapons feel much, much rarer.

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I have around 1500 hours consisting of almost exclusively Legend and above. I’m quite sure that I may be able to craft all my missing reds and the stacked vaults might drop around 20 more but is this reasonable for the time spent?
It’s also not like I’m close to having every hat yet either.

The randomness in the real game is nice but they decided to script events making them boring with time. On the other hand it was decided that progression and crafting clearly needed to be a unnecessary and only borderline acceptable RNG sore. The crafting and loot system is an ever present reminder of their failure to learn from V1. There is no need for all this RNG sore when people want to test out their builds.

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Agree with you there. It seems like you get 5 jewelery drops for every weapon drop.

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The rates are fine, it’s the RNG that bugs me. If I had a way to ‘buy’ the red skins with some kind of accumulated currency I’d be happy. Make it like 200 blue dust or something. Then when I get bunches of duplicate drops and never the one I want, I can just buy the skin and upgrade it with dust for the stats.

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Yeah I would strongly like to disagree there. Having to play 1000+ hours to get all the stuff (which isn’t cosmetic btw so it has an impact on gameplay) is insane. I’m sitting at arround 300 hours, I main Kruber and I still lack half of my items in reds. Sure I’m sometimes playing champion just for fun and yes sometimes I play for a couple of hours and just bomb all my legend runs. Or a run just goes poorly and you loose tomes/grims or there is just no Boss or Sack rat for Loot die or you just want to complete some challenge and get no Quickplay Bonus. All of this tiny little stuff prevents me from getting Emperors Vaults and Droprates for all other Vaults or Chests are just a joke.

And to all the “git gud” people out there that argue increasing the droprate will trivialize gameplay or will cause people to put down the game earlier: You realize that there are people out there that just quit because RNG and difficulty can be infuriatingly frustrating? Because you can bleed players in that direction as well. And from a Designers perspective it’s just stupid to loose players after 300 hours because of frustration rather than loosing a player that already spent 1500 hours because there’s just nothing more for them to do. So the argument that lowering the droprate will cause players to put down the game earlier is just bs. More People leave because they don’t care for grinding absurd amount of hours not because they invested so much time that there isn’t anything more to do.

And personally yes I do care about getting my reds but I won’t stop playing just because I got them. Because I care about the gameplay and being able to experiment with different weapons/builds/ trying to get certain breakpoints which I just can’t get without reds.

Sorry but for me there is just no reasonable argument for keeping the droprates as high. It’s not an incentive to play it’s just tedious grinding for grindings sake and to me thats just bad Design. It only prevents players like me from doing what they want to do and maybe just quitting earlier. And I do realise that there are players that will quit after they completed everything but I feel that the game is currently only catering to that group and just ignoring every other type of player.

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IMO drop rate is ok, problem remains the same, duplicates.

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In Vermintide 1 there were quests to complete to get a specific piece of gear, they were rare and took a while but you could hunt down that red that never dropped. I would like to see something like that in V2.

I don’t want to be showered in loot so it becomes worthless. But I do want ways to get the good items

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And here I am. Full red since ~450 hours. (Cannot remember exactly). And well over 1000 hours played.
But yes it is annoying with the RNG on reds.

I have 350 hours played with a majority of that being champion, and maybe 50 hours of legendary. In that time through dailies and full book champion runs I have acquired 41 reds.

I’m good with that, and they are spread over all characters. I’ve created two red weapons and have 7 dust currently. I have oranges with decent rolls to fill gaps and to test out new weapons to see how they feel.

If the drop rate is increased someone like myself would already have all desired reds and have nothing else to work for except box checking achievements.

In order to have a continual end game loop I would like to see the ability to infuse say 10 red dust into an item to change a single stat by 1/20 of its maximum value. For example infusing that into +health on a red neck would change it to +21%. That gives people the ability to do something with those extra reds and a reason for people to open chests after they have become satisfied.

We do not need to increase red drop rates to shorten end game, we just need to have a more meaningful one.

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Drop rates seem okay to me.

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I don’t think the expectation has ever been 1000s of hours for Vermintide; most folks who put in the hours on fairly successful book-runs will pull plenty of reds; all of those duplicate trinkets get you the dust you need to try many, many builds. @Bahtoo just mentioned the majority of his hours are on Champ and he still has plenty! :smiley:

If you invest a total of 100 hours into the game on one character and you move to Legend ASAP, I think you will find that you actually get a lot of Reds for them. It’s a shame that most of them are trinkets… but that’s why we now have the Red-Dust system.

Were each of the weapons as likely to be pulled (I.E.: If there are 15 weapons for a character, the chance to get any of them is 1/18 and there’s a similar 1/18 chance for a trinket) I think we would have a much easier time of things without needing to tweak the drop-rate. It would also lend some more value to those trinkets during the late-game!

I was a huge fan of the quest system that was implemented in Vermintide 1; I had a great time working towards my gear and being very happy with it and I really hope a similar monetary system accompanies Lohner’s Emporium of Wonders.

Getting all of the shiny stuff always takes 1000s of hours in every game and is a totally different story… that’s normal and meant to be a badge of honor.

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Think all of the cosmetic hats should automatically be red tier, with how freakin’ rare they are. I haven’t gotten one in months for ANY character.

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With 1000 hours, I probably have 60% reds, I crafted the ones I was interested in, dual daggers.
Wanted the grudge skin and took me 3 months of all legend boxes on bardin, 150+.
The issue isn’t the lack of availability of reds but skins.
That being said I don’t care for them and haven’t opened boxes in the last 250 hours playtime.
I just play for the mechanics.

No. Reds are the ultimate reward for adavanced players. It not be suppossed to be that easy get them. I played about 250 hours on xbox one and i have 4 characters full red, thanks to red dust convertion. I cant believe someone playing 300 hours without having just one character full in red.

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The issue is definitely the amount of dupes and not the drop rates themselves. Currently i own pretty much every red weapon i want (drops/crafted) with 600 odd hours put into the game.
What i am however missing is some of the illusions in said weapons because i obviously crafted them.

Let’s take elfs sword&dagger as an example here. I have opened probably around 200 vaults without getting the said illusion but multiples of duplicates especially of 2h sword and repeater crossbows without even mentioning the amount of jewelry dupes.
This has garnered me around 40 extra red dusts which i don’t really have a use for currently.

So how i see it, is that the issue really is not the amount of reds. You can pretty easily in 100-200 hours of legend game-play fully stack 2 of your main characters . The problem comes if you want specific loot especially if you want the specific weapon illusions like the executioner sword then you pretty much have to just pray for the rng gods.

Im agree with you. Red item drop rate is fine, and you can get in one or two hundred hours a couple of characters full in red, thanks to switch 5 random reds for whatever you need. Weapon ilusions doesnt have any impact on the Game, so its fine for me if they are more difficult to get.

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Yeah duplicates are the real problem.

If you just need reds at all, the solution is to man up and play Legend fulltime. That’s all you need to do, I play about 2-3 missions every day and between those chests, the daily quest reward and commendations I get an average of 1 red item per day of play. Sometimes I get no red, sometimes I’ll open a peasant vault and get 2 reds, they all average out over time. The drop rates for champion difficulty are MUCH smaller, a tenth or less of legend.

If you have no trouble getting reds but you want one specific red skin then you have no real recourse at the moment. The drop system is pure RNG, I’ve gotten 4 repeater crossbows in a row yet in ~600 hours of playing I still don’t have a red handgun on kruber. The “solution” for this problem is to get a purple bogenhaven skin and upgrade an item to red for 5 dust. But there is only one purple illusion for each item type and the variant blue skins can only be acquired as reds.

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